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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  OT: Goth vs Freak « previous next »
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Author Topic: OT: Goth vs Freak  (Read 3263 times)
Susan
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« on: May 23, 2004, 11:52:32 AM »

Ok, i'm 30 and surrounded by 20-somethings at work. They say I'm goth, which i'm stuptified by in any case since i wear work appropriate attire (casual, jeans and dress shirts). Sure they're funning around, but I don't get it. My music taste for one is all over the board as they are aware, everything from jonie mitchell, u2, etc - maybe it's my moody personality...although everyone finds me funny so i can't be that moody.

In any case i brought up that in high school i was a freak. They said "yeah, it's the SAME thing".

Hello? ok, circa 1986 freaks were defined as the kids who listened to metallica and megadeth, wore concerts shirts, smoked, drove mustangs and cameros, recreational activities varied (pool playing, drinking, pot smoking..lol). We were the kids who would kick your ass. We wore skull jewelry, black boots with steel toes, leather jackets..etc...etc. We rebelled because i guess we didn't fit in any other social order.

I never heard of goth until I got out of school and to me it defined the kids who dyed their hair black, black fingernails, lipstick, trenchcoats and dresses, who wore crosses and listened to underground music or marilyn manson, perhaps worshiping vampires..lol. Did these two groups merge? My co-workers claim i'm only a few years older so i can't say the group was different in MY day, but i think those few years make all the difference because clearly our definition of 'freak' is not the same.

Now we had some kids in school who were probably "pre-goth", they were called new-wavers. They were skater-rejects who listened to the same music but progressivly over the years became a little darker.

I'm still baffled how this came up at work. So i don't shop at Old navy and talk about Justin Timberlake and have a perky personality, and maybe i can still throw a scary look. But i'm not even a freak anymore...i'm just.....

old



Post Edited (05-23-04 11:54)
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Mr. Hockstatter
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2004, 01:29:48 PM »

I'm a little older - 39.  Back in the late '70s early '80s what you're describing was the stoners or burn-outs.  I was a proud member ;)  I think goths are just what you describe, black nail polish, black hair, etc.  The difference between them and stoners is that goths are really depressing.  I think that to be a goth you have to spend at least an hour a day contemplating suicide.  And you have to be named Winter or something similar.  Whining about the unfairness of it all is a requirement as well.  I believe they're required to make appearances at coffee houses too.

Of course, what do I know, I'm old...

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StatCat
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2004, 02:33:45 PM »

Goths are lame so I wouldn't want to be called one.  Goth music is pretty awful (real goth music not like marilyn manson which is some industrial shock rock crap I guess) I should know because I know a few goth bands personally. They have distorted the coolness of vampires I'm afraid and put it to bad music.

Aren't the people you're calling freaks really just metal heads in the end?

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trekgeezer
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2004, 06:26:23 PM »

I went to high school in a small town in a very rural state and we had three groups of people . You were either in the  "I'm Popular!" group or you  were a roper or  doper.

Ropers wore long hair drove pickups or  muscle cars, drank beer by the gallon and raised hell  whenever possible.  I was a Roper.  The Dopers wore long hair, drove pickups of muscle cars,  smoked pot like a chimney and raised hell whenever possible.  Wait..................what difference does all this make?

Be who you are and stay away from all this label crappola you'll be much happier.

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And you thought Trek isn't cool.
Susan
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2004, 06:44:16 PM »

Yes, freaks are stoners, dopers, potheads, metalheads, hoods..(well at least that's what they were called in the 50's). We were easy going, we just didn't take crap. Now i'm not by definition "goth" in any form - although not perky i find amusement in everything so the suicidal personality is out. Obviously they were having some fun, mostly because i'm an enigma at work - just when people think they have me figured out they don't.

I think i was a little frustrated at trying to explain to these kids there actually IS a difference between what they refer to as "goth" and freaks. I began to question after the popularity of nirvana and the ultimate death of metal and true rock and roll whether or not the two groups merged

While i was a child of the 80's, in many ways I can totally relate to "Dazed and confused" - that was my life, those were my friends.I spent half my teenage youth hating being a teen and wanting to be older to be free of all the restriction and to "do what I want". Only now that i'm older do I realize those were truly the golden years, only now can I be nostalgic about a time in my life when the real irony is that I had more freedom to be who I was when I was 15

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BeyondTheGrave
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2004, 06:58:04 PM »

trek_geezer wrote:



> Be who you are and stay away from all this label crappola
> you'll be much happier.

i have to agree with you. people spend to much time trying to label you its like figure yourself out leave me alone.  ive been labeled so many things its crazy. because i wear my "urban clothing" i like rap and smoke weed. couldnt be more wrong. or when i wear my punisher t- shirt and leatherjacket iam some sort of crazy man. i work for NYPD for crying out loud.

"Dont be a fool for ur tool"
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JohnL
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2004, 07:26:00 PM »

>I think i was a little frustrated at trying to explain to these kids there actually IS a
>difference between what they refer to as "goth" and freaks.

Maybe you should SHOW them the difference. Dye your hair black (or wear a wig if you don't want to go that far). put on black nail polish, black eye shadow, black lipstick, dress in all black with maybe a leather collar around your neck and spend the day only giving one-word answers whenever possible. Take your breaks alone and stare off into space, or slump over a table with your head in your arms. :)

When I went to high school, I don't recall any 'official' names for groups, other than jerks and a***oles...
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Susan
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2004, 09:10:20 PM »

Maybe you should SHOW them the difference. Dye your hair black
> (or wear a wig if you don't want to go that far). put on black
> nail polish, black eye shadow, black lipstick, dress in all
> black with maybe a leather collar around your neck and spend
> the day only giving one-word answers whenever possible. Take
> your breaks alone and stare off into space, or slump over a
> table with your head in your arms. :)


Ok, maybe after.  my appraisal...lol
If i did that, however, i might prove their point

you must have went to a very straight school. For generations each group of kids is always labeled unless you're school produces much of the same. I think that's why my group stood out so much, we went to a new school with a bunch of rich prep kids. It's funny how you think everone grows up and out of labels.  I found out the workplace is much like high school relived, only the problem is your supervisors and managers are the kids you hated in high school and they want to exact all their pented up feelings  in some sadistic game called "i have power and control your paycheck". I guess my only satisfaction is in knowing that they're still dimwits which i prove at every meeting when possible



Post Edited (05-23-04 21:13)
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2004, 09:40:01 PM »

Heh, in HS I was always labeled as a Punk/Skater.  Now, that's kinda fallen away now that I'm in the working world.  Now I'm just a lowly computer geek.

As for the Goth thing, why don't you post up a picture Susan and let us guys let you know if you fall into that column or not (as if it matters).  Would also give us a chance to see what Mullet Man was so obsessed about.

:o)

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Eirik
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2004, 10:47:18 PM »

I graduated HS in 1989, so my only real exposure to Goths was Molly Shannon and Chris Kattan's skit on SNL - the brilliant one where Kattan is the prince and lord of all darkness by night and a Cinnebon counter boy by day.

From what I can tell, Goths did not grow out of what we in the 80s called "freaks" or "burnouts."  I think Goths have their roots more in the apathetic, "alternative" Cure-fan types with the dyed black hair, black nail polish and pasty skin.  At some point in the early 1990s, ALL music suddenly fell under the umbrella of "alternative" music (sort of drains the meaning from the word) and my guess is that the original "alternative" types felt the need to differentiate themselves from the crowd again...  so they sort of rolled in the natural direction led to by the Cure asthetic and all became "vampires" and such.  This is my sociological theory, anyway.
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Susan
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2004, 12:08:50 AM »

Ok Skai- it's on my profile. And i'm taking it down in 24 hours, after that you'll have to go to the post office to see it. It's called..."i'm 30 and I can still kick your ass!" - at least that's what it looks like i'm thinking. Either that or hostility that i don't have cable but 3 channels and telemundo.


>>Goths did not grow out of what we in the 80s called "freaks" or "burnouts." I think Goths have their roots more in the apathetic, "alternative" Cure-fan types with the dyed black hair, black nail polish and pasty skin. <<


Right, that's my thinking. Those who listened to the cure were generally skaters who branched into "new wavers".  I remember going to the mall back then and seeing guys dressed exactly like the singer. The funny thing is today is the first time in about 15 years i've seen a punk in a mall! lol, it was quite startling - the entire crowd in Sears stopped and just watched as this 15 something year old kid walked by with his little brother. He had hair that i guestimate was chest-long and it was twisted in those huge massive spikes that shot out all over his head. Kudos to him, I remember for halloween one year I had very long hair and it took about 2 cans of aquanet and 3 hours of frustration to form a decent mohawk...



Post Edited (05-24-04 00:11)
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petrol lunatic
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2004, 02:15:03 AM »

Goths write bad poetry, and are usually drama or art majors, freak is an umbrella term for weird people, which can include goths, who are just the wimpiest of the freaks. Robert Smith of the Cure is a good example-sad, pasty, weird hair, black clothes, thinks in a sort of existentialist way. Freak today also sort of means freaky- think of Rick James' "super freak."

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Brother Ragnarok
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2004, 03:08:39 AM »

No offense if you like some of them, but the people you work with would appear to be complete dips**ts.  The goth thing started circa 1979 with bands like The Cure.  It has been taken over and made, not more, just differently, retarded by guys like Marilyn Manson.  Goofy makeup aside, Manson seems to be a pretty sharp cookie.  Too bad he doesn't realize his gimmick is so dumb.

Brother R

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Deej
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2004, 07:48:56 AM »

Yeah, when I was in school, the (pre)goth kids were the Bauhaus/Cure group. We refered to them as the Edward Scissorhands Posse. In my scool anyone who didn't wear Guees jeans was a "stoner" and if you owned black clothing you were a devil worshipper. I don't know much about the current goth thing. But, I do know it seems to revolve around the Denny's Restaurant chain. That's where they can be found in my town...Denny's....smoking section.

Good call on Manson, Brother R. It's not that his music is bad, it's his schtick that is kinda lame.



Post Edited (05-24-04 08:01)
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Eirik
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2004, 08:37:38 AM »

"Those who listened to the cure were generally skaters who branched into "new wavers". "

Didn't have skaters (I assume you mean skateboarders) where I'm from, but I agree.  My guess is that in the early 1990s when everyone started calling their favorite style of music "alternative", the alternative fans figured they needed a schtick that would NEVER become mainstream.  Hence, goth.
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