OT: The Beheading Videos

[dean]

Sorry guys and gals, but I'm just sick to death of people arguing over this.  I'm also sick of people b***hing about 'ignorant americans' and constantly getting proven right by some of the things said in this topic.  

It's almost 2 in the morning here, I'm tired after a road trip and very cranky, I'm in no mood to put up with some of the 'patriotic' bulls**t that seems to just be recycled from the American media, and does nothing to fix the situation.

So hopefully i made a little sense there, and got through to a few people.

[maria paula]

well, im glad u wrote it , all u said was very interesting to me.

[Anonymous]

Dead: I couldn't have said that better. I agree with everything you wrote.

[mr. henry]

i hate that the left wing media bombards us with the photos of iraqi prisoners being hazed but don't show something as shocking as an american beheading. people should be able to see the beheadings just as well as they should see the hazing. it sucks to know that there are still americans running around that don't even know about the beheadings.

[JohnL]

>Now that the US forces are in their, they have to stay and stabilise the region, but
>that's not how it is seen by all Iraqis. Yes there were celebrations, but there have
>been much, much more protests about ongoing US occupation.

And if the US were to pull out and the fanatics seize power, the Iraqis would be crying "Why did the US leave us at the mercy of these monsters? Why didn't they protect us?" Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

>In the Middle East it is a much more brutal culture than ours as westerners, so it's
>with no stretch of the imagination that you can see why death is so much easier
>to carry out in the Middle East than in western society.

And apparently they like it that way, since any attempt to raise their educational level or improve their standard of living is seen as meddling and as the west trying to dilute their culture and poison their youth with immoral values. :(

>The reason why they would love a bomb to go off in Disneyworld is simply
>because that would do so much more damage to America than a single attack
>on a military target, and it would probably be much easier too. It's just a tactic to
>a group that is actively engaging in a war they know that they are losing.

And it would destroy pretty much any sympathy their group has with other countries. If they think the current occupation of Iraq is bad, they wouldn't have seen anything yet.

>People can sit around saying that violence is bad and all that, but the majority of
>people would resort to torture to extract the information required to save the lives
>of those threatened by this bomb. It is an ethical grey area that is going to be
>crossed by both sides.

Several years ago, I saw a program on soldiers in the field and the subject of torturing a prisoner came up. The soldier they talked to (not sure of his rank) said that if it was an emergency and the information was needed to save lives, he would reluctantly resort to something like shooting a prisoner in the leg. However he also said that he would never condone something like taking the prisoner back to base and torturing him for hours just to fish for information he might have.

>there is no end to a war on terror, especially one that has religion at the heart of
>it: if you keep fighting, you may crush an immediate threat eventually, but you
>won't eliminate the threat. The defeated will just grow more and more angry, and
>a new threat will pop up in it's place. Violence begets violence.

There is if you completely eliminate the enemy and their culture. Harsh I know, but realistic.

>maybe somebody can come up with a better idea than just 'kill the Arabs'

I can, but I'm sure people wouldn't like it any better; Quarantine the middle east. Nobody allowed in or out. Trade negotiations would be by phone or at meeting points at the borders. If they want complete freedom from the west's influence, I say we give it to them. Of course this also means no humanitarian aid, no financial aid etc. Let's give them exactly what they want and see how long to takes the entire region to descend into chaos.

[maria paula]

Post Edited (07-10-04 21:57)

[trekgeezer]

I really have a problem with people taking shots at Americans who express their personal feeling towards a group whose publicly  stated purpose is to destroy us and our way of life.

I don't hate Arabs, but I don't feel much empathy towards what I consider cults within Islam who seem to feel nothing but hatred toward  western culture in general.
I know that they don't represent the  feelings of the great majority of  Isam.

Truth be told, most  people around the world want the same things. to be able to have their own beliefs,  a job so that can take care of their families, and hopefully provide a better life for their children. This is same in the US as it is in Iraq or anywhere else.

The US gets bashed about things like the embargo against Iraq.  Wouldn't you get  tired of  being critized when your country has the highest level of charitable giving in the world. provides the highest level of foreign aid in the world, and has saved the asses of so many other countries.

When there is some kind of natural disaster anywhere in the world, who are the first people to go help? The US.  But, when there is a great disaster here, who the hell offers us any help?  Oh yea, we have all the money so we don't need any moral support from people we consider our "friends" in the world.  

There are cemetaries around the world filled with Americans who died providing  freedom for people  who now turn on us every  time we slip up.

 Iraq was a mistake and not the last one we will make. We are human.  What we need to do now is work toward the best outcome we can.  

Here is a litlle quote for  you :

"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. " - H.G. Wells

[maria paula]

Post Edited (07-10-04 21:58)

[trekgeezer]

maria paula wrote:

 

Now isn't this being a little hypocritical, in the above paragraph you are basically saying  the US has killed 1.4 million Iraqi children, that we are responsible for all their poverty. In your next post you are praising us for our humanitarianism. Which is it, are we good or bad?

The sanctions against Iraq were put in place by the United Nations, not the US acting unilaterally.  

The UN also had an oil for food program setup with Iraq and some 65 billion dollars were raised ,  the last  8.1 billion were transferred to the Developement Fund for Iraq over the last year. But now there is scandal over this program, because evidentl;y Saddam was skimming money from the fund into his personal account and bribing UN officials to get help buypolitical influence and to get items smuggled into the county in violation of the UN sanctions. There are officials from many countries (including the US) under investigation for taking part in this scheme.    Read about here: Oil for Food Scandal

II  would say there is plenty of blame to go around for the condition Iraq is in today. We should not have gone in without a long term plan and most Americans admit  that and because of the way it was handled by our poiliticians we will bear the brunt of the rebuilding costs  (frankly we would have to under any condition).

I don't like accusations that are not backed up by facts.  This is last time I am posting on this subject , it is quite frankly, getting a little tiresome.

[maria paula]

Post Edited (07-10-04 22:02)

[maria paula]

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Post Edited (07-10-04 22:02)

[JohnL]

>can i ask u something? why do u hate so much middle east? it sounds like u do.

I'm sick of this one region causing so much fear and suffering to the rest of the world.

Maybe not everyone in the middle east hates the west, but many of them do and this causes those countries to shelter terrorists, if not actively support them. They allow children to go to "schools" which are nothing more than terrorist indoctrination centers where fanatics will teach them to hate the west based on passages from the Koran that they have twisted to fit their own beliefs.

I read an article a couple years ago, I forget the source, where a reporter was allowed to visit one such "school". In his article he said that children are sent to these places which are completely controlled by islamic radicals who teach them their own version of the Koran. These children aren't taught things like math and science, or about the world. They're taught strictly religious lessons about how Islam is the one true religion, how they are the chosen people and that everyone else is an infidel who doesn't deserve to live. He said that during his time there, the boys (no girls allowed of course) thought it was great fun to jump out from behind trees and pillar and pretend to shoot him. When asked what they knew about the USA and the world, they replied that they knew the USA was on a mission to destroy the middle east and wipe the Islamic religion from the face of the Earth. When he tried to tell them that wasn't so, they called him a liar while their "teacher" just smiled and how well brainwashed the kids were.

How do you stop that?

[Francois B]

I was wondering if any of you can send it to me i've been trying to watch it( not for entertainment, i need to know some things) and i cant download on these comps, so can someone plz send it to Imforeverone@yahoo.com,