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March 29, 2024, 03:34:53 AM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  What if...... « previous next »
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Author Topic: What if......  (Read 3565 times)
loyal1
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2004, 01:11:12 PM »

The man who compiled this list is a scholar as well.   There are so many different interpertations to the bible and the inconsistanceies depend on someone's interprtation and why he listed the paragrapgh beforehand.  All should look at something carefully and examine it and not take it as "truth" so to speak.  I do not protest agaist religion.  In fact there  are many things I believe, but I also am fully aware at how many times the bible was rewritten.  It reminds me of the game telephone if you know what I mean.  There are so many sects and denominations that I can't imagine the "true word of God" that was filtered through human understanding is what we see today.

In fact I think that more "prophits" have come forth as our understanding and civilizations grow.  Impossible?  Not as impossible as it is to believe that profits came forth the way they did years ago.  Time does not make anything more valid.

I am not saying all these are true inconsistencies, but there are many worth considering and looking into.  Someone wanted a list and I provided it.  What you dod with it is up to you.
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Dave Munger
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2004, 05:18:46 PM »

What I was going to do way back but didn't for some reason was recomend Jesus On Mars http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0523401841/qid=1095889977/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7247036-1198357?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
by Philip Jose Farmer. He's generally really good with the conjectural stuff about the Bible.

I have some misgivings myself about turning this into a religious debate thread, so I'm going to try to at least be pretty brief about these type of things. I think that what Drezzy Mac reffers too is the famous supposed contradiction(s) between Gen 1&2. Supposedly these prove that Moses copied them from two different sources. But Moses did expect his writtings to be taken seriously as having been revealed by God. If he were faking it, it's unlikely that he'd have just copied contradictory material and presented it back to back like that without fixing it. I hope I don't sound fanatical when I say that things like this increase scriptural verisimilitude to me, because literarily competent frauds (which the Prophets and Apostles would have to be if they are not what they presented themselves as) would not have included them in the finished text. Anyway, looks to me like chp 1 is chronological, chp 2 is more in order of importance, from a POV closer to that of humans.

I think that the following things get read into Genesis too much: modern taxonomy (reading "kind" as "speicies"), turning "world" (usually reffers to the Medditeranian area in the Bible and other stuff from that period; Alexander conquered "the world") into "planet" or "globe", and ... damn, there was deffinetly a third one. Anyway, all these are particularly exemplified by the Noah story.

I've got a little bit of a problem with the idea that always comes up that the Bible was changed a little every time it was traslated. Like any other book that's been translated a lot of times, they went back to the earliest source material they could get every time. It's not like a game of telephone. The individual words that could have been translated otherwise are pretty clear in context.
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Drezzy Mac
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2004, 05:45:10 PM »

Regarding your last paragraph, I do fully believe that they'd find the earliest examples possible of written text, but phrases and figures of speech change over time. You know how it says Jesus walked on the water? During that time, as I have read, the phrase "walked on water" meant walking over a bridge or next to a body of water.
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ulthar
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2004, 08:03:31 AM »

(On the interpretation of Jesus and/or God being alien:  was this not the premise of Stargate?)

I just scanned over the longer posts, so some of this may have already been said.  There are three important things to remember about the Bible:

(1) It was written BY people.  I did notice someone else pointed this one out.

(2) It was written by people in an OLD language; much of what we argue about in the Bible is translation 'error.'  For example, many Jewish people smile at the thuoght of modern Christians interpreting Adam in Genesis as a single person.  Adam is a translation of the word meaning 'first man,' not a specific individual, but symbolic of the beginning of humanity.  Or even more specifically, symbolic of the beginning of humanity as a sentient race capable of seeing a higher power in the universe.

Language itself is very, very abstract.  Often, in our day-to-day lives, we give language a certain concreteness, but that is very artificial, especially when dealing with translations and translations of translations, and again especially when dealing with sometimes partial texts and texts based on oral tradition.

(3) Many of the stories, especially in the OT, were passed orally for generations before being written down.  That's why the basic authorship ofthe original story is hotly debated among biblical scholars.

The book is deeply mysterious, as is the basis of Christianity anyway.  Anyone claiming to fully "understand" it is deluding themselves, in my opinion, whether that claim is based on agreeing with it or not (ie, finding inconsistencies).

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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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Derf
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2004, 12:45:38 PM »

Ulthar,

Your point about language is very true. As an English teacher, I can attest that many have problems understanding English from 100 years ago. The OT was written on scrolls in Hebrew, with the writers leaving out the vowels of words to save space. As if translation of ancient languages isn't hard enough, add this little fact to it and we see how hard it can be. Copy errors do creep in, however careful the copyists are. Idioms change in any language, and trying to convert idioms clearly from ancient times and ancient languages to modern times and modern languages is a daunting task.

As far as your statement that the Bible is too mysterious a book to understand fully, I must disagree...with reservations. No, no one can FULLY understand it. But can we grasp enough of it to make sense of it? Certainly. As I said before, the moral tenets of the Bible are consistent throughout: in a nutshell, we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and being and to love our neighbor as ourselves. This first appears in Exodus 20 and is re-emphasized by Jesus in the Gospels. Is that too mysterious a truth to grasp? Hardly. Is it easy to do? Hardly.

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ulthar
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2004, 03:40:06 PM »

Derf wrote:

>
> As far as your statement that the Bible is too mysterious a
> book to understand fully, I must disagree...with reservations.
> No, no one can FULLY understand it. But can we grasp enough of
> it to make sense of it? Certainly.

I agree...I simply meant that the Bible relates things and events that are spiritual and often bigger than our understanding.  There is more than simply literal stories or historical record.  It's deep.  And thought provoking.  At the very least.

:)

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
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