Lynch's Dune

[Alan Smithee]

I saw this in the theatre back when it came out. I was only in the 4th grade. People warned me not to expect another "Return of the Jedi" and that I'd be bored out of my skull. I had to beg someone to go with me to see it. By this time, the critics have already bashed it to death (Siskel & Ebert had a field day). In a sense, the movie company was trying to gear this movie towards children: there were action figures and other toys tied into the movie. On the other hand, Frank Herbert was out in full force trashing Star Wars for ripping off his ideas. Anyhow, the movie left a scar on my childhood- the movie was probably too intense and sadisitic and bizarre for kids (we're talking about David Lynch here). But there is something about this movie that has a chintzy appeal. It has a unsual look to it. Even if the spaceships are unimaginative, and the idea of a (largely) wooden castle on Caladan is quite unnatural and totally unsci-fi. But within the last 20 years I had a steady fascination with Dune. I've learned to love it. And I'm a big fan of the Kevin J. Anderson/Brian Herbert Dune books. But the movie is a mess, with some good ideas brought in by Lynch.

However, I still can't get over some of the acting and dialogue.

When Jessica tells the pilots to "cut my son's buns" I crack up everytime.

Yeah, I love this movie, probably for the same reason why so many people hate it.

[Mr Hockstatter]

I've always liked Dune.  Great characters, weird plot (an entire galaxy-spanning civilization dependant on a drug), great sets and scenery.  Heck, it's got it all.  I never read the book so I'm unable to join in on the usual bemoaning of every deviation between book and movie.  That remake pretty well messed it up;  they made it into a freakin' Star Trek episode.  Children of Dune was kind of cool in its own way.  I like the way that it starts by showing that even though everything appeared wonderful at the end of Dune, it all turned out horribly wrong.  Then in the end they give you a really cheap happy ending.  Kind of a darkly sarcastic touch.

[Mofo Rising]

I remember being distinctly disappointed with DUNE when I watched it, and I'm a hugh Lynch fan.  That's about all I remember.  That and a flying fat man.

Did anybody see the extended edition that they showed on the SciFi channel?  Not the miniseries they made, but an extra long version of the Lynch version.  I had no interest in seeing it when they played it, but I'd love to see it now.

[nobody]

I hear that Lynch hates the extra long version of "Dune"... probably because the additional stuff was designed to make the story more understandable. :)

[Ash]

I'ver never been able to get into Dune no matter how many times I try to watch it.
It just never appealed to me.

My "Video Movie Guide 2000" calls it, "a 40 million dollar mess."

I did however get into the old Dune p.c. game.
Remember that one?
It was like Command & Conquer only with the Dune theme.
You go around harvesting spice instead of ore.
That was a great game.

[trekgeezer]

Lynch hates the long version because a studio hack put it together. Some of the stuff in it is test footage.
 
And Mr. Smithee, Jessica says "cut my son's bonds" . I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic about the lady's accent and don't think that 'bun's" was in the script.

The SciFi miniseries was much truer to the book.  They did go off in left field though trying to make Dune Messiah and Children of Dune into one story.

I've read all twelve books and the Herbert/Anderson books are a far easier read than Frank Herbert's. The last three that Frank wrote are pretty hard to get through.

A safety deposit box with Frank's notes on the sequel to Chapter House Dune.  The Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune will be the next two novels Brian and Kevin will be writing from these notes.

[Alan Smithee]

Oh, I know she says "bonds", it's just her accent that makes it sound like buns.

[AndyC]

Interesting coincidence. I just finished finally reading the book this week. Every once in a while, I like to pick up a classic I just never got around to reading. And tonight, having finished the book, I rewatched the movie.

Lynch's movie does make a lot more sense when you have the book to fill in the gaps and explain why people are doing things. Lots of the story is missing in the movie. Heck, they glossed over the whole middle of the book. Most of the Fremen culture (and the Harkonnen culture and imperial culture, for that matter) is missing. They really fast-tracked Paul into the role of Fremen leader. And charcters like Feyd-Rautha and Princess Irulan, who were quite significant in the book, almost weren't needed, they were so underused. Really, the backstory and the defining characteristics of most of the supporting characters, such as Gurney, were pretty much non-existant. Easy to explain some of that as being left on the cutting room floor, until you consider how much other stuff was added in.

That's what really surprised me - the amount of stuff that was never in the book that got added to the movie. The whole sonic weapon thing, Thufir milking a shaved cat with a rat attached to it, the Baron covered in boils and flying around, Harkonnen heart plugs (I was really hoping to learn more about these, darn it), many of the weird technological devices, the rain at the end of the movie, and even some of the plans within plans, were all just made up. Most of the stuff that seems weird and nonsensical in the movie never appears in the book. And Lynch came up with wild interpretations of things. Like the mutated Guild navigators folding space through the use of spice gas. In the book, the navigators we see looked very human, and used the spice to enhance their mental powers to better navigate fast moving spacecraft. And there seemed to be a need to make the Harkonnens more eeeevil, to the point of making them caricatures. Very little was made of them being as important as the Atreides in the grand scheme of things.

Some parts were miscast as well. Patrick Stewart, much as I liked his Gurney, is too slim and handsome to be Herbert's Gurney Halleck, described as a big ugly lump of a man. The emperor of the book is around the same age as Jose Ferrer in the movie, except that we're told that he has the body and appearance of a 35-year-old. Of course, I liked the Ferrer emperor anyway.

All in all, I love the style of the movie. I've seen it a few times, and always liked it. However, having finally read the book, I can easily see why Herbert's fans were disappointed when it hit theatres.



Post Edited (04-17-05 08:25)

[Musketeer]

God protect us from Anderson & B. Herbert should they try to finish what Frank Herbert started based on some notes in a safe deposit box!  There was an entire ENCYCLOPEDIA for Dune published with F. Herberts blessing that they could have used for their prequals.  Instead they invented some of the most childish drivel I have ever read in SciFi, wich each book getting worse than the last.  It is clear that Brian Herbert is just out to make a buck, unlike Tolkein's son who has done an excellent job of honoring his father's work.

THe movie was a train wreck but the mini series, both of them, did a better job of trying to get the core messages of the books across.  There were inconsistancies with the books, but not nearly as bad as Paul blowing peopl up with his voice and the sand worms dancing for Paul in the desert.

[AndyC]

Check out this link:

The Dune Children's Activity Book



Post Edited (04-17-05 09:50)

[trekgeezer]

Dune is LOTR of the science fiction world. It brings you into a rich world of intrigue. As Paul descibes it "wheels inside wheels".

I can hardly say that Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson have come up with the worst drivel in science fiction. I think they did a pretty good job of telling the back story. The last three of original Dune novels had some very "out there" stuff in them.

Dune is a very hard book to adapt because the characters have so many internal conversations. Hell, the dinner scene when the Atreides arrive on Arrakis could take an hour of film if done right.

[Neville]

I first heard of this movie in the early 90s, when David Lynch's name was so hot after "Twin Peaks" and "Wild at heart". For some reason (maybe it is that I saw some images of it when I was a kid and wondered what film was for some time), I ended up being fascinated by the idea. I bought all six novels by Herbert and by the time I managed to watch the film, I had read them all.

Fascinating stuff, really. Herbert created a whole working universe with a precision and care that left me with my mouth open. The first book itself is easily as dense and complex as the whole "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The rest of the series, while being a mixed bag, ocasionally manages to recover the tone of the first chapter, with massive confrontations and machinations that involve whole galaxies.

The film itself is quite interesting, one you assume that the whole project was far too ambitious. Certainly Dino DeLauretiis has a proved reputatation of bitting more than he can chew, while David Lynch was too young and experienced to tackle a film of that epic proportions. But the results are not that bad. We get a good glimpse at the Dune universe and its perpetual wheel of machinations and complots, while some of the images are so powerful they can stand by themselves (the navigator folding space, the flying baron). Of course, there are childish simplifications, like the accelerate course to become a fremen leader that Paul endures, and neverending voiceovers explaining the meaning of every single scene, but it is quite a brave effort. Even the acting is OK, if you try not to take it that serioulsy. After all, in the books the characters always spoke stilted dialogues while their main reasons often remained ocult, so the "opaque" acting fits quite well.

I haven't seen any of the mini-series based on the "Dune" series. Somehow they didn't feel right. With all its problems, David Lynch's Dune is the only adaptation that I can accept.

BTW, ASHTHECAT, even if you haven't read any of the books, you could try to play any of the first "Dune" videogame, which was released for AMiga, PC and SegaCD. All verisons are playable trough emulators, and instead of the real-time-strategy approach of "Dune - The Battle for Arrakis" and "Dune 2000" they are graphical adventures that follow the events of the first novel quite faithfully, even to the extent of re-using many of the props and looks of the David Lynch film.

Follow this link: http://hol.abime.net/439/screenshot for pictures.



Post Edited (04-17-05 16:37)

[AndyC]

One thing in Herbert's story I was really impressed with was the way he tried to make a futuristic world that was different from the ones people usually imagined. The guild has a monopoly on space travel, so people aren't flitting about in spaceships at will. Computers caused some problems in the past, and were abandoned in favour of humans with highly developed minds. (Of course, Herbert only thought of computers in terms of analyzing data and solving problems. He couldn't have known their widespread potential at that time.)

The most interesting idea, however, is the use of shields.  They stop anything that moves fast, so projectile weapons are obsolete. There are lasers, but they react so violently with shields that people are scared to use them. Nuclear weapons, meanwhile, are controlled by strict rules. So, we have a universe in which wars must be fought with knives and physical grappling. The 'weirding way' of fighting is nothing more than martial arts, not some sonic weapon. And the shields, themselves, are useless on Arrakis, where they tend to p**s off the worms.

Sadly, much of this was lost in the movie. I expect it was because it was considered necessary to have some more traditional sci-fi elements in the movie for the people who expect it. So, the soldiers are armed with big rifles, and even the Fremen are blasting away with their 'weirding modules.' The movie also kind of loses one of the central ideas of the book, in which people on all sides are quite conscious that the environment on Arrakis breeds especially tough people, who, with the right training, could be an unstoppable force. Everybody wants to either control the Fremen or destroy them.

Actually, another funny point was that the movie ended with Paul bringing peace to the universe, while the book suggests that he might not be able to avoid unleashing a horde of fanatics who will sweep across the galaxy under his banner.

[Neville]

AndyC wrote: "Actually, another funny point was that the movie ended with Paul bringing peace to the universe, while the book suggests that he might not be able to avoid unleashing a horde of fanatics who will sweep across the galaxy under his banner."

Yeah, that's a very good point. By the second book of the series the Fremen under Paul's command have conquered -and devastated- endless galaxies trying to fulfil their yihad dreams, and a more mature Paul is quite aware of the cruelties that have been done in his name. I'd say he never forgives himself for that.

[Ed]

This is literature, not the movie... I have read the Herbert/Anderson books, and they ar emuch more "brain candy" than the original Frank Herbert.  The only thing about them I dislike is how they work extra hard to shoehorn ANY technology that was in the original books.  The style is also a bit more action, and less cerebral.  
...which is not a really BAD thing.  Children of Dune and Dune Messiah are ne hard slog.  Its that late 60's science fiction thing.  The God Emperor, Heretics, and Chaperhouse Dune are all fantastic.  
The original book was one of the most formative books of my young life.  I love the first 3rd.  

As for the films, the movie was not BAD per se, just very very different from the source material.  I loved the set-piece battles and the scenery and how each planet's culture was obviously different.  The ambience was gorgeous.  
The SciFi channels miniseries ws definitely truer to the source, but the visuals were much less true to my imagination, and the acting was frankly embarassing.   If you could have combined the two movies: visuals from the Lynch, and vision from the SciFi... it woulda been perfect.  
-Ed


"I WILL kill HIM!" - Sting.