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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  Chris K: In reference to an earlier thread « previous next »
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Author Topic: Chris K: In reference to an earlier thread  (Read 6975 times)
AndyC
Guest
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2001, 04:51:32 PM »

A very good point. Now that I think about it, a great deal of Japanese entertainment follows that theme. I'm reminded of Star Blazers, in which Earth seems to be devastated and it's fleets decimated on almost an annual basis, then rebuilt in time for the next saga. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to rebuild the space fleets, when the same ship won the war single-handedly every time.

Anime aside, I've often wondered if using the atomic bomb when it's size and availability were limited might have been a good (for lack of a better word) thing. Did the world need to see what the bomb could do to a real city full of real people in order to properly fear and respect it? It's not something I like to think about, but it comes to mind when this issue pops up. If the first cities weren't nuked when there were only two crude 15-20 kiloton bombs, would that lesson have been learned later, when an entire arsenal of easily delivered H-bombs was available? This is not a judgment of whether the decision was right or wrong, but more a speculation.

I tend to agree with the view that an invasion of Japan would have devastated cities, and cost many lives. It just would have taken longer, the damage would have been throughout Japan, and the casualties would have included many American soldiers, as well as Japanese. This is far from the black and white issue many would like it to be. It's very easy to say "war bad, nukes bad, peace good" but it's never that simple.
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Neville
Guest
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2001, 06:26:45 AM »

Some of you have mentioned that city-destruction and post-apocaliptic scenarios are very typical on anime (Akira, Fist of the North Star for instance) or the monsters movies.
Some of the criticism I have read about the topic explain it as a psicological side effect of the atomic bombing. To face an unbeatable creature that can destroy your city is a recurrent fantasy in the post-war Japanese psique. Aparently, because I have not seen it, the original "Godzilla" movie is almost a metaphor of the atomic fear.

Not that this is anything new: on the other side of the ocean, american B-movies also reflected cold-war paranoia, and so do some sci-fi writers of the time, specially Philip K. Dick and Ray Bradbury (Anybody remember the end of "Farenheit 451"?

Take the movie "Screamers", based on a Philip K. Dick short story: It deals with a planet which has been the scenario of a war between two large companies
which actually never fought against each other directly (cold war scheme), and it is packed with references to nuclear war and nuclear energy.
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Frannie
Guest
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2001, 01:39:53 PM »

How does all that tie in with city that transforms into a giant battle station?  That tends to show up often as well.
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Chadzilla
Guest
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2001, 01:56:21 PM »

Probably a cultural thing.  It is my understanding that the Japanese are fiercely nationalistic, any outsider (aka Gai-jin) is considered a barbaric invader (or simply an irritation).  So whole communities (men, women, and children) would fight against allied troops (or just kill themselves rather become prisoners and suffer the humiliation of lost face - evidently there was a mass suicide on Saipan, literally hundreds of people jumped from cliffs into the ocean rather than allow themselves to be captured).  So an entire city mobilizing to battle an invader doesn't strike me as particularly strange, as that is the historic mind set of the entire country.   Or so I have been led to believe by Pop Culture, History (both accurate and revised), and simple observation.

So it goes.
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Chadzilla
Guest
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2001, 02:23:59 PM »

Tried, really tried, to remain silent, but can't.

In the easy comfort of studying history, knowing the outcome of any and all decisions made during war, peace, and assorted crisis moments in between, it is easy to pass judgement.  I have not, and don't think I ever will, think of either Pearl Harbor or the atomic bombings as cowardly acts.  They were simply acts of war.  Nothing else.  It is far to easy to reinvent and reimagine history if we only had done "this" instead of "that', when the truth is no one can truly know the outcome of any said action until it has been done.  Then, only in hindsight, do the other options become plain, or acts of bravery seem either cowardly or stupid and vice versa.  It is far too easy for arm chair warriors and children, being safely removed from the responsibility of making this decisions themselves and then having to live with the outcome, good or bad, to condemn actions made by previous generations in times of strife.

If America had invaded Japan by land the losses on boths sides would have been considerably larger, and the war would have no doubt have dragged well into 1946, possibly even 47.  Not an option when you want to end the war.  It is interesting that no one thinks as to why the single bombing of Hiroshima was not enough to make Japan surrender.  We had to drop two.  That sends a subtle message about the small country's considerable will to fight to the bitter end (which was very bitter).  Also I have heard that the Emperor of Japan did not use the word surrender once in his address to the nation.  This, undoubtedly, was to avoid the many suicides that would have followed such an announcement.  Japan has a very high suicide rate, or so I had heard when attending school in the far east.

So it goes.
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ASHTHECAT
Guest
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2001, 03:47:41 PM »

Very early yesterday morning when I typed my comments, I'd had a little too much to drink.  I am a hardcore patriot and to me, comments against the U.S. in any way are unacceptable.  So when I read what Neville & Chris K. had typed, I was enraged.  Yes, I agree I came across as a little harsh but how many people do you think read the comments that I typed and totally agreed with me?  Quite a few I bet.  I thank Chadzilla for backing me up on this one.  So yes, we can all be friends now but please, please don't type any more negative things about the U.S.  I appreciate it.  s**t!  Terrorvision's on T.V.!  Gotta go!
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Chris K.
Guest
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2001, 04:53:59 PM »

Thank you Ashthecat for responding in a kinder fashion and giving us your reasons on why you were a bit "harsh" towards us. But please understand, my comments were IN NO WAY insulting or unacceptable towards the United States of America (and I am an American too). I myself am a patriot, but I have to look at things carefully and consider their motives that to me are highly questionable (in other words: I think too much). I made no negative comments about the US of A on this post. At times some criticism needs to made, but my statements were just ponderous questions and thoughts on this-and-that, not criticism. If I wanted to make critical comments about America, or any other country for that matter, I would be risking my life to be lynched or shot! God knows I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN!

OK, so now we are friends. I have nothing against the USA and that's that. Now I have to wait for my DVD of A TASTE OF BLOOD to come in and then I will have something new to talk about. DVD shipping process, how slow it is.
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Chris
Guest
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2001, 09:28:25 PM »

So how do you feel about the genocide of American Indians? And how the government over the years has done very little to support them, except giving them impovershed reservations to live on and throwing them in prison for becoming politically active? (like Leonard Peltier). I love America also, i wouldn't stay here if I didn't. I just don't like the america that some people here want.
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Chris K.
Guest
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2001, 10:18:33 PM »

Chris wrote:
>
> So how do you feel about the genocide of American
> Indians? And how the government over the years has done very
> little to support them, except giving them impovershed
> reservations to live on and throwing them in prison for
> becoming politically active? (like Leonard Peltier). I love
> America also, i wouldn't stay here if I didn't. I just don't
> like the america that some people here want.

My take on the genocide of American Indians is somewhat shortsided. I don't know much about those incidents, but I have heard. Personally, part of my ethnic heritage is Cheroke. And my uncle (the one I mentioned in one of the posts who served in the Korean War) recreates American Indian materials such as wardrobes, shoes, etc.

I feel that the genocide of American Indians is one of the many controversial incidents (at least in my opinion) that has been a part of early American history. In fact, some historical sources have claimed that during the Revolutionary War the British wanted to control the New Colonies expansion in order to make peace with the Indians and sign solid treaties that would prevent the New Colonies to take over their land. As an end result, New Colonies win the war and expand to take over Indian's land. Whatever the outcome is, I feel that what we have done in the past regarding the "land snatching" of the Indian lands was wrong and shows how we were trying to remain dominant towards a land that we called "ours" when it indeed inhabited by an earlier colony. I do believe that is was wrong though, for I have read about the terrible conditions of the Reservations and in the end even the Government taking that away from them as well. Their is more to it, but at this time I cannot get WAY INTO the whole discussion.

But Chris, their is one question that I need you to clarify. You said, and I quote, "
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Chris K.
Guest
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2001, 10:20:59 PM »

Chris wrote:
>
> So how do you feel about the genocide of American
> Indians? And how the government over the years has done very
> little to support them, except giving them impovershed
> reservations to live on and throwing them in prison for
> becoming politically active? (like Leonard Peltier). I love
> America also, i wouldn't stay here if I didn't. I just don't
> like the america that some people here want.

My take on the genocide of American Indians is somewhat shortsided. I don't know much about those incidents, but I have heard. Personally, part of my ethnic heritage is Cheroke. And my uncle (the one I mentioned in one of the posts who served in the Korean War) recreates American Indian materials such as wardrobes, shoes, etc.

I feel that the genocide of American Indians is one of the many controversial incidents (at least in my opinion) that has been a part of early American history. In fact, some historical sources have claimed that during the Revolutionary War the British wanted to control the New Colonies expansion in order to make peace with the Indians and sign solid treaties that would prevent the New Colonies to take over their land. As an end result, New Colonies win the war and expand to take over Indian's land. Whatever the outcome is, I feel that what we have done in the past regarding the "land snatching" of the Indian lands was wrong and shows how we were trying to remain dominant towards a land that we called "ours" when it indeed inhabited by an earlier colony. I do believe that is was wrong though, for I have read about the terrible conditions of the Reservations and in the end even the Government taking that away from them as well. Their is more to it, but at this time I cannot get WAY INTO the whole discussion.

But Chris, their is one question that I need you to clarify. You said, and I quote, "I love America also...I just don't like the America that some people here want." Can you please give an example of what the America some people want? The question doesn't seem to follow right, unless I am missing something on that question.
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Nathan
Guest
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2001, 12:31:38 PM »

"I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean;
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left nor right,
I'm just staying home tonight
Getting lost in that hopeless little screen."

- Leonard Cohen, "Democracy"



Nathan
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Neville
Guest
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2001, 01:11:26 PM »

Great quote, Nathan. I don't think a bit of criticism is that bad, and I can't believe this topic going on and on. This post is to clarify my position: I am not an american, but I have mixed emotions about my own country as well, and I don't think that makes me a bad patriot or an enemy of my own country. Being a citizen of a particular country does not mean to agree by heart with absolutely every political  measure they apply or all the historical events it has participated in.
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Lee
Guest
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2001, 01:39:56 PM »

Ok, now we are to the Indian Issue. Living in Oklahoma, I've known some Indians and known many people who have had much contact with them. Now I don't agree with what happneded to them. It's sick and discusting. The government has tried to make up for it. Many Indian tribes own land around here and can do what they want with it. The government also has provided housing and and plenty of money(I went to high school with guys that received $3,000 a month). They are also intitled to many benefits(they can get the best health care around and it is free). But many of them are jerks(just like lots of people around the world). They spend their money on booze. Whatever you do, don't get in a fight with an Indian, you will be surrounded by about ten of them. I have nothing personnal against Native Americans(I am partially Native American and my cousins are half Native American) but I'm sick to death of the Native Americans that just go around acting like a***oles just because they think they can get away with it. I know it's not against the law to be a jerk but that doesn't make it right. Thankfully most don't act like this, just the few that make them look bad.
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Flangepart
Guest
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2001, 01:15:28 PM »

Well....hasen't this been a real kickstart to the old cognitive centers.  Just proves ya' can't avoid the real world forever, i guess. I mostly agree with andrew, but a lot of intresting points have been made by everybody. I'm just glad that we won the Second world war....well, we being the U.S. and her allies. Though Russia never realy got over the horror of her own government, just helped smash the Nazi's , who had genocide on their sick lil' minds. Have we learned much from those days? Have we forgotten more? I hope not....but we shall see. The idiot brigades will never learn, and no matter what groups they lurk in, they will come up to bleet and whine, second guessing after the fact, but not realy proving they could do any better. All you can say is....it could have been worse.
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