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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  OT: My fight with Jack Thompson « previous next »
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Author Topic: OT: My fight with Jack Thompson  (Read 20504 times)
Fearless Freep
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« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2005, 10:01:36 AM »

I think the makers of GTA:SA screwed themselves over on this one.  By hiding the extra scenes the way they did, it caused a lot of noise when people found it.  This caused the politcos to start putting pressure on the ESRB to do something.  If they had not hidden the scenes the way they did, it woudln't have been a big deal

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odinn7
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« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2005, 10:15:54 AM »

"Weenies."

I like that. I think that one word sums it up rather well.

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Fearless Freep
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« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2005, 10:28:08 AM »

Just for grins, this came up on my Korean Martial Arts mail list (the discussion had been about kids and violence and teaching Hapkido and such)

"No society that feeds its children on tales of successful violence can expect them not to believe that violence in the end is rewarded."  Margaret Mead, anthropologist (1901-1978)

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ulthar
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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2005, 11:41:43 AM »

I know how to shoot guns; been around them my whole life.  But that does not mean I want to hurt innocent people with them.  Innocent deer? Well, that may be another story...  ;)

In the end, the choice is a private one.  No matter what external influences you have, you have to decide to be a scumbag or not.

That said, this issue is not really about exposing a violent game to kids; the game was already rated "M" and therefore, in theory, not accessible to those under 17.

Personally, I cannot stand this kind of game, and really wish there was no market for it.  That there is does not make it right, either, so I am not saying that.  That there is a market for it is kinda sad to me.  But, one may also argue it is a form of escapism (for adults) and is therefore not different than movies or books.

But I do see your point: if we raise kids on violent games, movies and tv shows, it does little good to try to teach them "violence is not the answer."  (Of course, I would say sometimes, SOMETIMES, violence *IS* the answer, but not as portrayed in a game that 'glorifies' crime).

Boy, did I just walk the fence, or what?

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Fearless Freep
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« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2005, 11:46:40 AM »

He he...reminds me of a line from one of the "Trancers" movies

Prospero: Killing isn't always the answer.
Jack Deth: No, but it's usually a pretty good guess.

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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2005, 11:28:29 AM »

This guy is starting to remind me of Zell Miller....

From Gamespot:

"How do you like your hot coffee? If you're Jack Thompson, you like it scalding game publisher's laps. The Miami attorney and antigaming activist has done his share to see that games don't fall into the wrong hands. And lately, those hands have belonged to almost everyone.

Thompson was among those who spearheaded the recent effort to slap an "Adults Only" rating on Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and he's often been on the forefront of many other gaming issues, several of which have targeted the crime-spree-based GTA franchise. In the past, he's represented defendants who have been the victims of GTA-inspired crimes, including the triple homicide of three police officers by an 18-year-old boy in Alabama.

His beef with San Andreas? Unused code in the game that depicts sexual acts. These minigames can be unlocked by using game-cheat devices or patches available on the Internet.

Thompson is on a roll...and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes: He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2.

In a manifesto sent today to press outlets, Thompson focuses on dismantling the Entertainment Software Ratings Board and exposing what he calls the industry's "latest dirty little secret." The secret's out now, and it involves nude sims.

In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."

The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyberlives. Actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, receiving promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense.

Knowing that the game is popular among all ages, EA has even taken steps to ensure that Sims fans aren't exposed to indecent depictions. In the recent expansion pack, The Sims 2 University, gamers can send their teenage sims off to college. However, instead of packing the expansion with "keggers" and "reefer," EA chose to use juice and bubble blowers.

Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur that covers the nether regions. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called 'the blur' which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

Were this to be true, Thompson would have his smoking gun, and EA would be forced to recall all copies of The Sims 2. However, it's what's under the blur that Thompson's after. And what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque smooth body, according to EA.

Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."

Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."

[UPDATE] Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."

The last time we checked, The Sims 2 was rated T for Teen by the ESRB, which means that anyone 13 years of age, with $50 to spend, can purchase the game. "

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Neville
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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2005, 01:28:52 PM »

Geee... And what if there's hidden nudity on "The Sims 2"? Is he going to blame EA for the frat parties now? The more i hear from this guy, the more I think he's on this because a) he is some kind of zealot or b) plans to earn lots of cash suing the computer entertainment industry.

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ulthar
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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2005, 08:46:07 PM »

Neville wrote:

> I think he's on this because a) he is
> some kind of zealot or b) plans to earn lots of cash suing the
> computer entertainment industry.
>

Your forgot option (c), related to (b), that was clearly stated in the article: he is a criminal defense attorney who represents defendants in violent crimes who use the 'game made me do it' defense.

It seems strange, though: if he dismantles the game industry, won't that kill his cash cow?

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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
AndyC
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2005, 08:46:25 PM »

I've known quite a few crusaders. Maybe not as big as Thompson, but just as zealous. Journalists tend to attract them. Some even become them. A former boss of mine has shown up on the news more than once being hauled, kicking and screaming, out of a shareholders' meeting (that's a whole other story).

Anyway, the mistake they all make is that they get so caught up in their fight for the common good, they lose all ability to consider how they must sound to others (or they simply discount those views as unenlightened), and they go too far. They attack everything in sight, rather than carefully choosing their battles. People like this (assuming they are sane) often have some very valid things to say, but the message gets lost in petty attacks on silly targets, obsessive behaviour, outrageous ideas, and the way they talk about everything, large or small, like its the end of the world. Very quickly, people write them off as cranks, and ignore everything they say, even the things that are quite valid.

I find this very unfortunate.

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ulthar
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I AM serious, and stop calling me Shirley


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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2005, 09:01:18 PM »

Skaboi wrote:

>
> In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of
> the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video
> game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples,
> penises, labia, and pubic hair."
>
> EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether
> regions, almost to a comical sense.
>
> Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can
> remove the blur that covers the nether regions. "The nudity
> placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is
> accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is
> called 'the blur' which obscures the genital areas.
>
> And what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque
> smooth body, according to EA.
>
> Jeff Brown ... told GameSpot, "This is nonsense ... There is
> no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see
> a nude sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and
> time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the sims
> have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."
>
> Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the
> game ... The blur is an admission that even the
> 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can
> be disarmed.
>

Okay, so now, as I read this, it seems like he is saying the presence of the blur indicates that there must be something there to hide.  EA says there's nothing there to hide.  That should be very, very easy to prove one way or another.  If there is, in fact, nothing there, Thompson is ignoring the fact that EA MIGHT have put the blur there for the effect of having a blur there..to create the illusion that it was hiding something.

If I were a decision maker at EA and I KNEW there was nothing to hide under that blur, I'd go after this guy with both legal barrels.  I'd have his butt before a judge tomorrow am seeking an injuction to "Cease and Desist" all unprovable allegations that slander my company without cause.  If the allegations are false, the only way to fight it is like fighting any other bully...take your lumps, but get in there and hurt him, too.


> Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the
> delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who
> can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

Typical play on fear, there.  Again, if there is nothing there being hidden, the best bet is to crush him legally before he gets any more momentum.

I keep saying "if there is nothing there." I don't know if there is or isn't, but the game makers do.  Given his tone, and the willingness to deceive (saying blur == nudity as if that is logical), my vote for credibility on this point lies with EA.  How they act over the next fews days may likely tell more of the story, of course; we should look for signs that they have something to hide.

Anyone played Sims 2 and tried the mod?  If so, what did you see?

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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
Mr_Vindictive
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By Sword. By Pick. By Axe. Bye Bye.


« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2005, 10:52:16 AM »

Ulthar,

Thompson is jumping to conclusions without ever researching any of the situation.  

In the Sims 2, if you take off the blur, then the characters look like Ken and Barbie dolls.  Just flat surfaces with nubs where the anatomical parts should be.

But, there are also other mods out there, created completely by a third party, that put in the anatomical parts.  It has absolutely nothing to do with EA being as the mod is a skin.

A company should not be forced to change a game because of 3rd party mods.  It's insane to try to take down The Sims, which is one of the biggest franchises ever just because someone makes a nude mod for the characters.  EA is in no way at fault.

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__________________________________________________________
"The greatest medicine in the world is human laughter. And the worst medicine is zombie laughter." -- Jack Handey

A bald man named Savalas visited me last night in a dream.  I think it was a Telly vision.
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