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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  OT: The Situation In New Orleans « previous next »
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Author Topic: OT: The Situation In New Orleans  (Read 5658 times)
Ash
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2005, 03:18:38 PM »

I wanted to clarify about the looting.  I wasn't endorsing it and I do agree with you guys about the "stealing anything but food" idea.  
I see guys walking out carrying big TV's and it does anger me.  They do cross the line by stealing for profit.

But what if you had no shoes?  You were totally barefoot and there's all kinds of sharp debris under the water.  That would suck to step down and have a shard of something go straight through your foot.  Footwear would definitely be a priority.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2005, 03:40:13 PM »

I couldn't really care less about the looting personally.  It was just one of the horrible things that heppened as a result of having no plan at first and then even after days of watching people dying of thirst nothing happened!!!  It was crazy.  I am hypoglycemic.  If I didn't have food or water for 3 days i would be out of my mind.

        and in terms of the money,  the tv's and jewelry were drops in the bucket compared to everything else.    those places probably were covered by insurance anyway.  

    You can't tell people to go to the superdome and then not have any supplies there!!!!!!

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Andrew
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2005, 04:01:53 PM »

Ash, on the odd chance that someone needs something, I can live with them getting a pair of shoes or going in after water or food.  The looting shown on TV and a vast majority of what has been reported does not match that description.  Looting is, by and large, the actions of a mob.  Mobs are not people, they are dangerous animals.

**************************
A recent bit from CNN:

While thousands of people waited to be evacuated from the squalor of flood-stricken New Orleans, two major fires raged along the waterfront on Saturday.

Without water in the hydrants, firefighters were helpless. They were forced to abandon efforts to fight a blaze that threatened to consume an upscale riverfront mall on Canal Street, where looters had been seen earlier.
**************************

I was also considering the fact that New Orleans should have had emergency stockpiles of food and water.  If the Superdome was their emergency shelter of last resort, it should have been stockpiled with water and food.  Surely, somewhere in that huge complex, they had areas where bottled water and MREs could be stored.

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odinn7
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2005, 04:11:50 PM »

I can't blame anyone for stealing food, water, needed clothing...whatever they need to survive. It's these scum that are ripping off electronics, shooting at people at random, raping...they must think they're in a movie or perhaps it's their chance to be the big time gangsta that they've always wanted to be. Those are the ones that need to be eliminated, not some poor soul who's stealing to survive.
I just wanted to make my position on this more clear.

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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2005, 05:36:22 PM »

odinn7 wrote:

> they must think they're in a movie or perhaps it's
> their chance to be the big time gangsta that they've always
>

Or worse...maybe some of them just thought it would get them on TV?

I've been in microscale survival situations, and I have to admit, the thought "I bet if I had a tv right now, even if I have to steal one, I'll be alright" never crossed my mind.  Rather, the focus, 100% of the focus, was on what was needed to be done to make it through.  For the whole team to make it through.

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2005, 05:41:25 PM »

For all they know the whole country is flooded.

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Susan
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2005, 06:35:55 PM »

FEMA had time to prepare, the major is partly to blame as well. They had the nerve to say they had no idea people were in need of food and water until Friday I believe - when Ted Coppel pointed out that the rest of us knew it for 4 days.  Don't they own a tv? If reporters could get into these locations, so could relief. Bush had some nerve saying those looting food and water would be held accountable along with everyone else.  Also no evacuation plans were ever put in place for those who are poor and had no means to leave or place to go. (including hotel tourists) We also told those people to take haven at those locations and left them there to die of heat, thirst and go hungry while the no gooders took advantage of a bad situation with no law enforcement.

They CAN react that fast at the snap of their fingers, that's exactly what they are capable of doing. People right now are still stranded in their homes, attics and rooftops in not just Louisiana but Mississippi (Which has not had much media spotlight on it at all). Yeah you are going to see looters, it's a big city and that is to be expected in any major city. Rural outskirts, small towns and on the coastline you won't see that as much. So I wish the media would quit focusing on that aspect of it - it's an expected result of ANY breakdown in law and social order in a major city during anything from a natural disaster to an energy crisis (such as a blackout). It doesn't matter, those people will have to get out too as they slowly begin to find little food and water available, and they won't be able to bring their tv with them.  Btw the comment about keeping the area clean and sanitized: you can't. YOu have TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in one small confined area. There is no trash pickup, no available trashbag/ziplocks and shopping areas. This is likely a downtown area and all other shops are boarded up (they couldn't even bust through the boards to get in and get water/food) The toilets do not flush..imagine how fowl those bathrooms got really quickly. In this situation, pardon my french but who gives a s**t about trash. That is a situation that cannot be helped under the circumstance. There were bodies laying around because there was just no place to put them. These people were expecting someone to come get them.

The scary part is these people represent us...the citizens of the U.S. We are seeing firsthand how "quick to respond" our government is on it's own people. And it's pretty damn unnerving.



Post Edited (09-03-05 18:41)
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2005, 06:55:21 PM »

I'm with Andrew on the self reliance issue. People take no responsibility for themselves anymore. I personally would've found a way to get my family out there, whether I had money to or not.

It looks like the folks in Mississippi are into self reliance seeing that all the news is about New Orleans. Well right to the east of them there are a lot of little towns that don't  exist anymore. I guess there's nothing over there to loot.

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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2005, 08:41:58 PM »

I saw on a PBS program last night (Friday) an interesting comparison between NYC after 9-11 and this.  Giuliani contrasted with the mayor of NO and the comparison of the citizen victims as well.

Big Difference in attitude.

I agree 100% with the self reliance issue.  Last night on Dateline, they made a big deal about people choosing to walk out, like it was a bad thing.  I thought, "man, what is wrong with that??"  Folks are taking their destiny into their own hands, and Stone Phillips and the gang act like it's a crime.

Like Andrew said, that's what I'd be doing.  Forget sitting around chanting "help us, help us."  Help yourselves! If you at all can.

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Susan
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2005, 10:51:03 PM »

The mayor really is to blame for alot of this.  They had plenty of time to prepare for this, it's not like it was a Tsunami. In fact they've had years to think about worst case scenario, not only that but they knew that levy was not going to hold. It basically boils down to the fact that if you are poor then you are screwed. You're gonna have to fend for yourself or huddle with the masses at the superdome and hope for the best. There's amtrack, buses, there were plenty of options of offering the mass public a way out.

The heat is sweltering there, some had no sense of how bad the city was in various places and they were told to stay put. They were expecting help, walking out of there would be suicide when you are already worn down, dehydrated and run a risk of heat stroke and not everyone was physically able to. It's a long ways to walk when you expect help to be coming shortly. And for what it's worth, there were many who tried to leaving on foot and were turned back by the National Guard. They weren't letting any pedestrians out, even though the NO mayor said they would.

All the sudden images of "relief" are a day late and a dollar short.

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dean
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2005, 09:53:07 AM »

Not too sure about who to blame about all this [whilst it's big news here, we certainly don't know the full story] So I'd thought I'd give the Australian update on the New Orleans situation.

Front page for the paper I got today had a two page spread titled 'Aussies' bus ride from hell' in which it told the story of some Australian and other foreign survivors of the Hurricane who got out of the area to Dallas.

They talked to the paper via phone from the bus they were in.  In the report it goes on to say that water and food are almost non-existent at the superdome where these tourists had taken shelter, and the tourists, in particular the women, were getting stalked by gangs and threatened with rape.  One of the Aussies 'kept it together the whole time' and, realising foriegners seemed to be a target, gathered a big group of tourists together into one part of the building and organised escorts for when the women went to the toilet and had guards while they slept.

Some descriptions from these people: 'it was like a refugee camp within a prison' and '98% of people in the world are good, in that place, 98% of the people were bad'

Anyway, they managed to get out, 60 of them in total, by bus due to a National Guard member apparently breaking the rules to get them out.  Some worked shifts at the medical centre as a way of saying thank you.

So from what I've gathered its a really really terrible situation over there, and what Andrew and others have said is totally right: people need to be able to rely on themselves in a crisis, and not on others.

Think of it in a bad-movie sense I guess: Zombie's have taken over your town, will you sit on your butt and wait for the cavalry in a house which is easily broken into, or will you go out, seek safe shelter, and protect your family/friends?  It seems ridiculous in that context I know, but the answer is fairly obvious what would be best to do...  Actively seeking out your own safety, whilst on the surface can be dangerous, is much better than putting up no fight for survival whatsoever.

Anyway, the whole situation sucks, and I certainly hope there are people pitching in and helping when they can, and just aren't getting coverage because the media is whoring itself off to the violent petty criminals of the world.

You don't have to leave, town, I guess, like Susan said, it is a tough decision to just up and leave when you think help is around the corner, its just as long as you make an informed decision and a decisive one I guess: it's no good sitting around if you are incapable of helping yourself due to your own lazy attitude I guess...

From some of these posts and what little I have read or heard in the news, it does seem like a very chaotic situation there.  Rape, looting, violence, it's all so horrible: at least the Hurricane didn't know any better.  Anyone who resorts to that in a crisis, instead of helping the injured or the weak and unprotected, is an absolute scumbag.

On another note, the Headline for yesterday's paper was: 'Shoot to kill' in reference to the apparent authorisation for US troops to shoot to kill to 'stop the anarchy'.

I really wish it didn't have to come to that: as much as it's tempting to say 'shoot the bastards' I don't really believe it should ever come that far.  I'm not saying 'no violence,' I just think that as [hopefully] decent human beings, shooting to kill should always be an extremely last resort, and only when in a life or death situation: someone stealing a cd player shouldn't be shot just for doing that, at least a beating would suffice, if needed [I'm not completely lovey-dovey].  

Sure I haven't been in these situations before, and my opinions might change given the circumstances, but to say shoot to kill, well I think it's pretty hard not to be a little sad at the decision to authorise that.  It just never should have got that far in the first place.

Anyway I'm going to stop now, I'm tired, and this is kind of depressing, so to all those who are there, who are in need of help, even though they can't hear me: I wish you all the luck I can give, I hope for the best for all of you in this tough and tiring time.

And to all the others who, whilst not in the area at the time, but are being affected by it: help if you can, even if it's a small thing: even the most minor help of any kind can make all the difference in the world.

And to the rest of us, wish them all well and please make sure that if you are ever in that situation yourselves, that you do the honourable thing.

Sorry for the rant everybody, I got quite emotional reading some of the posts and had to gush...



Post Edited (09-04-05 09:55)
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2005, 11:01:55 AM »

The real shame and blame for  this can really be spread around. This is something that people knew was coming eventually, yet politicians both, local and federal, have avoided doing anything about it for decades.

Bush recently cancelled an increase flood control funds, but Clinton did the same thing about ten years ago. So neither political party can claim innocence in this matter.

On a growing pet peeve of mine, where are  the stories about Mississippi and Alabama. Some people were also hurt in Georgia from tornadoes spawned by Katrina. Florida was grazed by it and some people were killed.

On  CBS Sunday Morning (a 90 minute show) there were approximately 3 whole minutes dedicated to the folks in Biloxi. The rest was primarily about the slow response in New Orleans.  

I was reading a piece on the internet Friday about a small community in Mississippi where the survivors had gotten no help and had sat on the highway trying to get someone to stop and help  as a procession of Red Cross and National Guard trucks passed them by. Of course this is one of those places we in the South are familiar with, just a sign on the side of the road and small cluster of houses, but having grown up in a small southern town these are the people I can relate to.

I just think it would be nice if all the victims got their due attention and assistance, not just those in the "news worthy" places.

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