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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  OT: Restraining Orders « previous next »
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Author Topic: OT: Restraining Orders  (Read 5638 times)
odinn7
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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 02:13:05 PM »

Zapranoth wrote:

> Agree with odinn7.   Weapons are for those who know how to use
> them... and don't get anything truly dangerous, like a gun,
> unless you're 100% sure that you would shoot and kill someone
> to defend yourself.    A stun weapon is not a bad idea; there
> are some powerful ones made these days.
>
> But like he said, it's your awareness of the situation that is
> the true weapon.
>
> Also it sounds like your friend has been so used to abusive
> behavior that it's normal-seeming to her.  You know as well as
> I do that if she doesn't realize this about herself, she's just
> going to find someone else like him.  (And drag concerned
> people like you into more situations like this.)

I strongly believe in the use of guns for protection and I would have no moral problems with putting someone down that was trying to harm my family. We own plenty of guns and even though I am no marksman, I am confident in my ability and my wife's ability with our guns in case we ever need them. She knows how to load and use each one that we have and she's angry anyway so I doubt she'd have any qualms about pulling the trigger on someone. However, if you aren't confident with your ability, a gun is most likely not the way to go for a number of reasons as has already been stated here.

Yes, the fact that you are aware of what's going on and that you realize the potential situation that could arise, you are already way ahead. Just don't get caught off guard. It may seem kind of doom and gloom and I don't want to scare you further Susan, but you should also plan in your mind what you would do if he came in shooting. Plan escape routes and hiding places. Consider these from all directions that he could come from. Chances are this will never happen but the fact that you've brought up your concerns about it means that you believe there is a possibility. It can only help you to have a plan of action in the event that this ever comes to light. I hope I am helping you and not causing you any further stress.

I am also completely familiar with the abusive relationship cycle as one of my sisters has gone through it. She always likes the "bad boy" but that usually means that he's just a waste of life woman beater and non-working bum. The most recent guy she was married to beat her and all and despite what was said to her, she couldn't leave him and stayed with him for over 7 years. She was always making excuses for why he did what he did and he would apologize to her and always was going to seek help but within weeks it would happen again. I once told her to crush his skull with something heavy while he was passed out and then claim self defense. There were plenty of records of the cops being called for this stuff so I seriously doubt anyone would have questioned her. Well, she was too weak to do such a thing. I often thought about curing the situation myself but she's on the other side of the country and I couldn't take the chance on having anything I did affect my family. Anyway, she finally did get away from him but now she's seeing another "bad boy". Whether he will be the same remains to be seen. She's in her 40's so she should know better but it continues anyway. It's almost as if she feels that she deserves this way of life.

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Flangepart
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 03:25:22 PM »

Odinn7 has good advice, Susan. I'd advise what he said is usefull...scary, but usefull.

If you only hear the major media, they will not tell stories of where guns save lives, even when not used. Its not in their data bank.
A gun is a tool. It does a job. People are the responsable parties. If you don't feel you can go that far in self defence, by all means use all other in addition to any firearm you might later conciter.
Heres a thought for the home front...a dog!
I wish we'd had a mutt when that creep stole my car. Dog inhabited yards can be pretty off putting to bad guys, and not nessarily with big dogs like rotties .
Even a 60lb Lab is good protection. And, of corse , good company, if you choose the right pup. Even a dog not trained for attack, will defend its home, and by extention, you, the pack leader.

Your a sensable gal, Susan, so we hope all goes well. Keep us updated,K?

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mnpchan
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 08:21:59 PM »

The problem with someone in her situation buying a gun for protection from this guy is that this is, assumedly, her first time owning/carrying a gun and when it came right down to it she probably won't be able to bring herself to use it.  And even if she did use it it would end up being ineffective due to her stress/fear causing her to not be able to aim/fire correctly.  A gun is a bad idea.

A stun gun or even mace, however, is a great idea.  Even though the effects of them are temporary they are plenty long enough for your friend to stun him and get the hell out of there.
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ulthar
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2005, 11:25:02 AM »

Susan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i haven't heard of
> too many cases where someone being attacked had
> their live saved by their trusty gun..but i've
> heard plenty of stories about how the introduction
> of a weapon in such situations can often result in
> having it used against you.

Susan, sorry to butt-in late here, but I wanted to weigh-in on this point.  What you "hear" and what is really happening do not coincide.  Every single day in this country, someone is protecting their life or the lives of their families with guns.  Just because you don't hear about it "on the news" does not mean it is not happening.  If you'd like to see some of this, check "The Armed Citizen" reports in American Rifleman.

NRA-ILA Armed Citizen Page
NRA Publications Armed Citizen
Armed Citizens (and click link "Armed Citizens")

Before one goes "but that's the NRA, of COURSE they'll say that," keep in mind that "The Armed Citizen" is simply a collection of stories from America's newspapers.  It is not content created by the NRA at all.

I once came home after working late to find my wife sitting at the kitchen table with her .357 Mag.  Someone had driven up our driveway (where we lived at the time we had a 1/4 mile driveway way, way out in the country, and no one EVER casually drove up there for no reason) and it was not me.  She was well trained and I have no doubt she would have killed a bad guy had it come to that.

I've been known to answer the front door with a gun in my hand.  I've also had about 3-1/2 lbs off a 4 lb trigger with the front site blade on a guy's forehead (a guy who had moments before tried to run me down with his truck).  In this situation, talking would not have helped; mace would not have helped.  And, as much as I am a "blade-man," a knife would not have helped.  (A rocket launcher might have, but ... oh well).

A good friend of mine, once came out of his front door to see the following scene: his brother was bent over backward tinkering with something, perhaps a lawnmower, and a guy was getting out of the car in their driveway, pulling a gun to shoot his brother in the back.  My friend quickly grabbed his .10 ga and opened fire.  Luckily (I suppose), he did not kill the guy, but the point is, had he not acted, and had he not been armed, his brother would have been killed.

These are just a few anecdotes from my own experience.  As I said, guns are used "for the positive protection of the innocent" every single day.  I'll be happy to send you a sample list of newspaper sources you can check out yourself, if you are interested.

When your survival is at stake, you can choose to play games or not.  A gun is a serious weapon, and is not a toy.  I agree with the other posts: get training, and practice, practice practice.  But having said that, they are EFFECTIVE weapons.  They get the job done.  In the end, it is of course a personal choice, but in the right hands (and with the right attitude) they get the job done.


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ulthar
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 12:03:17 PM »

mnpchan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with someone in her situation buying a
> gun for protection from this guy is that this is,
> assumedly, her first time owning/carrying a gun
> and when it came right down to it she probably
> won't be able to bring herself to use it.  And
> even if she did use it it would end up being
> ineffective due to her stress/fear causing her to
> not be able to aim/fire correctly.

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest anything you have said is true.  Everyone who uses a gun for self defense (or even offense, like the military), including cops, has a "first time," and while it is true those situations are stressful, it seems to work out.

Getting your brains beat out, raped or murdered is stressful, too.  I am not down-talking mace, it's a good choice.  But please don't add to the FUD about guns (assuming one gets training and diligently practices, like with any other important skill) by saying just because she is new at it that she won't be effective.
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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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ulthar
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2005, 01:58:55 PM »

Susan,

I found this site today.  Dr. Gary Kleck did a big study on this topic (legit uses of guns for self defense), and of course, since then, there have been many discussions about why these are not in the news.

How Often are guns used in self defense?

Several million a year translates to an average of OVER 5400 per day.
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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
ulthar
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2005, 02:02:45 PM »

And, as for the second part of the statement, there's this:

Is a gun an effective means of defense?

Here, Kleck specifically addresses the issue of offender turning a victim's weapon back upon the victim.
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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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BeyondTheGrave
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Punks not Ded sez Rich


« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2005, 02:42:31 PM »

I want to thank you you Ulthar for posting those sites. I go to college and study Criminal Law and every teacher I every had from former Police Offiicer to Former Lawyers keep hammering that if you have a gun for self defense you will most likely kill a family member with it or if some breaks into your house they will use on you. I know it does happen but they always made seem they it happens on a massive scale.

After awhile all the students don't think and just start to agree with the teachers. To be honest I always found kind fishy. Never had proof till now. Now I can argue in favor of protection. Time to stir up trouble.
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odinn7
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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2005, 10:53:47 AM »

Susan? Don't leave us hanging like this. You brought this up and it's been almost a week and we haven't heard from you.
I hope you are ok.

(one of my few serious moments...don't get too used to it)
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Susan
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2005, 10:18:49 PM »

Sorry for not having posted, didn't know anyone was on the edge of their seat. Well here's the update as far as the issue at work with the coworker who's ex is stalking:

One day he kept calling and hanging up over and over. Then he called the police and claimed his house was broke into and that the SWAT guy did it (the one who escorted her the day she returned to get her stuff). It's like somehow he doesn't want to stop until he feels like he's got the upper hand and is somehow sticking it to her.

So, on Friday management made a decision. Every other location of my company is high security except for ours. By high I mean patrols in parking lots, security presense everywhere, swipe entry through two doors to get into main buildings, cameras...etc. But our office is like any other ordinary business office in a building. Sad eh? Well I guess this latest issue got management on their toes realizing maybe we need to do something. So what's their grand solution? Now we have to WEAR our badges. Like that's going to make a difference. And they have company security guard on premises in the lobby area. Our doors are wood so anyone could sneak in and take out this geriatric guy. He also isn't much of security, I had my badge hidden and managed to walk right into the office without him even asking if I was an employee.  But the ex hasn't showed up, maybe he'll give up.

As for home: no more reports of breakins from the infamous robber/rapist. I am however now afraid of my downstairs neighbor who has taken a notion to trying to invite me to dinner constantly with his girlfriend who never talks to me. Don't neighbors know about BUFFER ZONES?
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2005, 10:27:45 PM »

Susan, Susan, you're not making us feel any easier about your situation. What happened with the break-in that was terrorizing your neighborhood?
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Susan
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2005, 11:07:55 PM »

Well so far he hasn't struck.  The home invasion robberies (attributed to this one guy who was kidnapping or raping and possibly responsible for a murder) seems to have stopped since early November...they said he was linked to some in the summer and then it died down until november so maybe he waits till the hubub dies down before striking again. I read my online Crime Bulletin so I kinda know what's going on in the neighborhood even if it doesn't make the news.  It's crazy, i mean it's a very upscale area of town.

I guess it's the price you pay for living in an apartment, you're just an easier target than a homeowner.  I just keep an eye out when i'm outside. Sometimes I kinda think it would be funny to just have a pocket wallet like guys wear and then put nothing but a big heavy rock in my purse whenever i get out of my car to go inside. That way if some idiot steals my purse he'll find nothing but a rock.
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odinn7
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2005, 11:34:31 PM »

Good to hear that A ) you're still alive and well and B ) that things seem to be calming down somewhat.


*edit* adding a B and a ) made a B)...silly board.
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Susan
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2005, 11:53:02 PM »

thx :)
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Just Plain Horse
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2005, 01:20:42 PM »

Looks like I missed the party...

Ultimatly, for future reference, I want to hit on one point nobody really mentioned: the motivations of the stalker and the ...stalkee? It's important- and difficult to remember what motivates poeple to adopt these behaviours. What drives a man to follow someone who broke up with him? The hope he can convince his ex to get back together with him? A desire to clear up the situation? Something sinister? Revenge? It's hard to say... it depends upon the person. Maybe he's a total creep... or maybe he's just looking for closure. It's a shame there isn't some sort of network better able to intervene in this kind of domestic situation than the police. A lot of guys could use somebody to talk some sense into them before things go from bad to worse... but where is it? Currently, it's mainly found on bookshelves and magazine racks, and mostly for people who are already aware they aren't quite "over it". Sadly, a lot of the man who end up becoming public enemy number one are still "out of the loop". Obviously, our society really doesn't foster much honest and genuine male to male communication. Oh, it's great fodder for comedies- a man incapable of saying what he's feeling, Ha Ha Ha let's all laugh at the absurdity of the male voice- but the idea of a male support group is given the fish without a bicycle routine. To make a better man, rethink the system that influences him... before he has to be put down like a rabid animal.

I've seen the "stalker scenario" from every angle, and after understanding what it means to be accused and to have all your actions misread as threats, (and to be thereafter threatened genuinely with violence myself), I've come to have a somewhat different perspective on this matter than most here. I've also gone out of my way- most likely because of this knowledge- to help both females and males face the rage of violent stalkers in confrontation. These guys aren't thinking clearly, and it's written all over their faces. Some are conniving, some are cowardly, some are suicidal... but one thing is a constant: desperation. We obsess on the victims after they've been murdered, but nobody takes the time to step in and stop it from happening... to stop the confusion before the only resolution becomes murder. At this time of year, when we pretend to promote joy and peace, while people get crammed together in one house for an anxiously awaited meal, I hope we take a hour to communicate with those people who don't communicate with the outside world much. Even Jeffery Dahmer visited his parents at Christmas. Yes, it is a tightrope walk, and perhaps the internet can be something of a buffer as well as a tool... but communication is important, and everybody has something to say... even if they don't know how...

God, I feel like dr. Phil...
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