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Zelmo - thats an accurate analogy. America definitely took the Indians land and relegated them to reservations. If the Native Americans decided to try and take back what was theirs, we'd have to fight them again I guess. It wouldn't be much of a fight but at the same time we don't begrudge them for their resentment.

Except the Jews have historic and cultural roots there going back at least 3200 years.

Together with non-Jews.

(https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/189438949_948626275938231_5581276250745616593_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mipSxbB7p4cAX8yKZ8T&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=0e0c4afaf8508df6cc4a82c271def9f4&oe=60CEE6E3)

^ That doesn't mean a goddam thing to most folks.
I'ts putting a whole group of people without a country.
 Modern Israel is  a large area that was given to fugitive displaced Jewish folks after WW2 . Except it displaced the Arabs who already lived there. In the long run all they had left was Gaza.

 :bluesad:

It's like As the World Turns...we have so much knowledge- but we spin in circles so fast. Like an overloaded washing machine.
Nothing ever really changes.
 What Lester wrote was well researched.  I'm not dismissing his thoughts at all.
All I'm saying is that the folks getting bombed on both sides likely know nothing about all this. I don't think the people on the street are caring about ancient history...

The people being bombed know all about it.  Get your head out of your ass... The reason they bomb each other is ancient history.  

Then it's even more senseless.
So it's like a 60's Star Trek episode where 2 planets have been fighting for so long they don't even remember what they are at war about?

I'm a strong defender of Israel in general, however the current government has gotten so used to having the US back it up every time there is a conflict that they have started acting like bullies.  The best thing would be for both countries to reject the extremists who are in power and elect more moderate leadership that would genuinely work for peace (that would mean getting rid of Hamas and Likud), but given the ongoing cycle of attack, overreaction, uneasy peace, grievance nursing, provocation, and then repeat, such a turn of events is highly unlikely.

trying to say whether Israelis or Palestinians were there first is like trying to say whther the chicken or the egg came first. both sides are comprised of people who have roots from there and also other places.

https://aldeilis.net/english/the-founding-of-jerusalem/ (https://aldeilis.net/english/the-founding-of-jerusalem/)

Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world. According to Josephus who wrote in the first century of our era, it was founded by the Canaanites. Josephus wrote:

But he who first built it [Jerusalem] was a potent man among the Canaanites, and is in our tongue called Melchisedek, The Righteous King, for such he really was; on which account he was (there) the first priest of God, and first built a temple (there), and called the city Jerusalem, which was formerly called Salem.

As Melchisedek was a contemporary of Abraham (Genesis 14:18), this would date the founding of Jerusalem in the eighteenth century BC. Hence, the city was in existence several centuries before the arrival of the Israelites in the land of Canaan. In fact, the Jewish Encyclopedia mentions that in Hebrew annals ‘Jerusalem is expressly called a "foreign city" not belonging to the Israelites (Judges 19:12), and the Jebusites are said to have lived there for very many years together with the Benjarnites.

Jerusalem was inhabited by the Jebusites, a Canaanite subgroup. It was one of the oldest and most illustrious royal cities in the land of Canaan and for some 800 years it remained a Canaanite city. Around 1000 BC it was captured by David. It should be noted, however, that when David captured the city, he did not displace its original inhabitants allowing them to remain in their city, but not in the fortress.  The continued existence of the Canaanites in Jerusalem, which became the capital of the new Jewish kingdom that was established by David, is confirmed by the Bible which refers to the people whom Israel was not able to destroy and upon whom David’s son, Solomon, levied a tribute of bondservice (1 Kings 9:20-1).

^  :thumbup:


I think its fair to say Israel and the IDF won the battle militarily, but the Palestinians won the PR war.

thus, it really behooves both sides to not let things get to this point

Hamas is a degenerate terrorist org but the only thing standing between Gaza and military occupation