another friggin' study (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2006/03/09/news_6145659.html?part=rss&tag=gs_&subj=6145659) about the impact of video games on kids.
You know, I'm older than most here and when I was growing up one of my favorite possessions was my Mattel Tommy gun, which was a duplicate of the one Vic Morrow carried on Combat!, one of my favorite shows. My older brother also bought me one those guns that shoots the rubber pellets and came complete with shoulder holster and silencer (I was into Bond too).
Anyway, my parents yard was full of imaginary dead Germans, Japanese, Indians, outlaws, and commie spies. Almost everything I watched involved guns, swords, hand-to-hand combat, or something violent and guess what I'm not a raving serial killer.
There are always going to be some mentally unstable people who are set off by stuff. The inference is always drawn that they were set off by a violent video game they were obsessed with, without thinking that maybe they were obsessed with it because they were already a wack-o.
My parents gave me grounding in reality, I knew what was real and what wasn't. This is another attempt at relieving inattentive parents from their parental responsibilities.
ARGH!
Just because I pretended to be Godzilla and destroyed cities doesn't mean I'm going to do it as an adult!
You can thank the following person for this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)
What gets me is that their is way more important things in the world than to worry about violent video games. All the money and studies whatever will never prove that violent video games cause violence because it doesn't. The same compliants were done with Punk and Metal back in the day and with Rap. Now this is just a new medium to put the blame on.
Great point Trek. I grew up much the same way. Just about everything we played involved guns. I haven't killed anyone yet (tempted to sometimes but the point is, playing with toy guns didn't make me a killer). Only people that are already unstable will let something like this set them off and if it's not a game or movie or tv show or music that does it, they will find something else.
Reminds me of an interview I read on John Carpenter, when asked if his movies (specially "Halloween") could be a bad influence in society, he said that society is always looking for scapegoats. He even mentioned that when he was younger people would accuse European movies (!) of the same thing, because they had nudity and weird (probably they meant non-happy) endings...
Problem is, the media often like to spread this kind of stuff. A murder is a murder and won't draw much audience, but, hey, if the murderer played "Dungeons and Dragons" we may have a story here...
In my country, like 10-15 years ago some disturbed teenagers killed a man for fun, following a RPG they had designed. RPG players are still claiming, to whoever wants to listen, that they are just a bunch of normal people trying to spend the time. A few years later, one of the most popular TV networks went as far as saying that a kid who killed his parents with a katana replica had done it under the influence of the "Final Fantasy" games. Want to hear what they produced as evidence? The kid wore the same haircut than one of the characters in the series. Luckily, that one was too stupid (even for that channel) and nobody beleived it.
Well, to add my two cents, there are good games, and bad games.
The good games are: Street Fighter, Pac-Man, Super Mario, Sonic the Hedgehog, Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy...
These are good, decent games that don't feature extreme violence or anything nasty.
The BAD gamnes are: American McGee's Alice, Carmageddon, the last Mortal Kombat videogames, Postal...
These are the games that should be avoided, specially by little kids. They depict horrific, disgusting and sometimes ammoral scenes of violence, carnage and gore, sometimes even ruining classic fairy tales like Alice in Wonderland in Amercian McGee's case.
The good games should be allowed, but the bad games should be restricted or banned.
I hear you on that un'Chollie!!It's kind of a strange thing:The same Parents who cry and b***h and moan about R Rated Movies are the same ones who when they were Kids back in '69-'70 pleaded with their Big Brother and/or Sister to sneak them in to see "The Wild Bunch"or took their future Spouse/Significant Other/Life Partner to see "Friday the 13th"back in 1980 are the same ones who gripe about Violent Movies like "SAW"and complain about why Hollywood doesn't make Family Oriented Movies,yet stay away from them when they come out figuring "Why spend our Money on it when it'll be out on Video in Three Months!!".America,I have a little suggestion for you:QUIT LISTENING TO ALL THE FEMINIST/FUNDAMENTALIST CLAPTRAP AND USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT FOR A CHANGE!!!But,it'll never work.It's way too simple!!
Hey, don't pick on Cathlic Fundamentalists. My mom was one of them.
And there are some movies that shouldn't be viewed by common, decent people. Movies like "The Acid House", "Hostel", "House of a 1000 Corpses" and John Waters movies that glorify horrific violence and disgusting scenarios.
I mean, they are making a MOVIE about American McGEe's Alice, how sick is that!?
Banned,No.Restricted,Depends.Yes,I Don't Want Any Of My Neices and Nephews Playing "Bloodbath 5000,Part 4999,Chapter 11,Subparagraph 8,Line Three:If They Move...Kill'Em!!".However,Four of my Nephews are Grown.Two of them are serving in the Armed Forces.One of them I don't know where he's at.The other one is Married and has a Daughter of his own.Same thing with my Nieces.Two of them are Grown Adults.One of them has Daughteers of her own.The other three are Teenagers.So pretty basically,when it comes to my Nephews,they can buy and play whatever Video Game they want.Same with two of my Neices.Now for my three Grandneices as well as mt three Teenaged Neices,that's up to their Parents as to whether they want them playing certain Video Games or not,that's their perogative.I basically beleive that it's up to the individual about things like that,not the Government or Religions.
it's up to the individual about things like that,not the Government or Religions.
Skaboi's point, and I agree with it, is that this is not really being driven by Gov't or Religion. It's being driven by one lawyer, Jack Thompson, and he's probably just in it for the money.
I did play Pac Man, and Burger Time was one of my favorites AND I do need to diet as an adult. Maybe we have something there!
-Ed
Two points just to play Devil's Advocate
1) Do you realize you sound an awful lot like smokers, or drinkers or anyone who has a habit or hobby they like that other people may not be so sure is really a good idea. Everything from "Fred smoked two packs a day and lived to 80 years old" to "I don't want the government telling me what I can do..." Very familiar
2) How many murders were comitted in your town last year? Or rape? or assult? Do you know? Do you care? Do you think it was an 'acceptable' amount? Maybe the reason you don't know, or don't care, or don't care enough to get outraged enough to stop it, is because violence doesn't means as much, doesn't matter as much to us as it should, because in so many ways it's become cheap entertainment that we fill our lives with. Vidoe games and movies and TV and what not. Maybe you haven't killed anyone, but if the next time you flip the channel from the locl news as the coer another story about a college woman getting raped or a gang banger getting caught in a drive by, because it's boring or old news...ask yourself if your honest reaction to he death or assault of another human being should be boredom or indifference...and ask yourself how you got to that point..and what you've filled your life and experience with that would make death seem trivial
Sounds Like Someone Had Their Eggs "Grumpy Side Up"This Morning!!!
plan9superfan Wrote:
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>
> The good games should be allowed, but the bad
> games should be restricted or banned.
And I suppose that we should start burning books that you deem unsuitable as well?
Freep, I understand what you are saying, but I think the issue that has everyone keyed up about this is the claims of causality. I think no one would argue that violent games, violent movies/tv and probably violent music and books contribute to an overall desensitization.
But, do they really CAUSE violent behavior? Maybe, in some select, specific cases it can be reasonably argued. But in the general sense, it just smacks of a bunch of people trying to find an excuse for their actions rather than take personal responsibility.
It is no different than the Andrea Yates deal. That woman committed one of the most heinous acts of torture and murder against her own children and within a day of it happening, people were crawling out of the woodwork to find an excuse. Think about the word excuse (eks-yoos). It looks a lot like excuse (eks-yooz). There is a pardonable cause for everything, including the most depraved acts our society can invent.
I find myself in the "I don't care WHY" camp on the WHY issue. I don't care if some thug kills someone because he played 16 hours of games a day. I only care that he did it, and believe he should be punished. I don't care WHY Andrea Yates murdered her children. I only care that she did it, and believe she should be punished.
I would put it to you that the lack of punishment for real crime (coupled with ridiculous punishments for minor crimes) contributes as much or more to the problem of desensitization to violence. By not punishing violent offenders swiftly and demonstrably, we devalue the lives they steal or effect.
Oh, and your mention of college campus rapes reminds me of something that happened when I was in grad school. It was a college town in the southeast and a very liberal one at that. There had been over the period of several weeks, a half dozen or so instances of a rapist attacking women at certain places on campus. Though none were hurt beyond being raped, I think a weapon was used and violence was threatened if they did not comply.
Anyway, after about two weeks of these attacks, a "Rape Free Zone" was organized. I thought, what a good idea. Well, until I found out the extent of the rape free zone was for one of the women's groups to hold a rally on the quad and chant "No More Rape" and some little, oh about 6" x 9", signs displaying "Rape Free Zone" were placed along the sidewalks between two buildings. That's it.
I suggested that we should organize volunteer escort groups for ladies who had to walk around campus at night and even have volunteers 'stand guard' at various places. It was as thought I spat on someone's cornflakes with a suggestion that might actually, you know, PREVENT an attack.
So, I think our lack of response to violent behavior does as much to desensitize us to it as much as violent entertainment does.
My mom used to say: "All people get connected with violent things like 'Carmageddon' or 'Hostel'. The fact is: the people who have God in their hearts aren't affected by those things. The people that don't have God in their hearts, on the other hand, can be influenced by those things. If they grow up in an enviroment when their parents neglect them and they lack love, the violent media can get to them and influence them."
The point I was making is simple, no one takes responsibility for their own actions. There is always some excuse.
I never meant to start a big argument, I just think the whole video game thing is an excuse for people act terribly. I think there should be informative ratings on violent games, but ultimately it's up to parents to monitor what their kids are doing and watching. I've seen far too many of my kids friends whose parents haven't a clue what their kids are up to and some don't even give a damn. Put the blame where it belongs.
The fact is that the biggest group of video game players are young adults, and they should take responsibility for their own actions and not try laying it off on some flimsy excuse of the game made me do it.
If you actually read the article, there is another point to be made about this. This has been studied to death, so do we really need a huge chunk of our already misused tax dollars going to another useless study?
Not to get off-topic, but ont the SAME page, there's an article on how prostitues (oh, wait, I guess they're called "Sex Industry Workers" now, are also called for the ban of the latest GTA game, as it quote, "Promotes the rape and beating of prostitutes."
I'm serious, I could NOT make this s**t up...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6144286.html
I really don't know what to say, the article even has a link for a Sex Workers Outreach Project USA. Now, you'd THINK that's be a company that's trying to get prostitues off the streets and give them the skills they need to pursue, but NO, apparently they're list of accomplishments include:
-ÂSpearheaded a Berkeley city initiative to decriminalize prostitution.
-Gained state and local recognition for our efforts to bring sex workers rights issues to the forefront
-Organized three annual memorial events to remember the victims of the Green River killings
-Organized and sponsored dozens of sex worker related arts and education events, including a financial management seminar for exotic dancers.
-Extended our national presence with chapters in Alabama, Arizona, Nevada, Texas, and on the UCLA campus
-Allied with local and national human rights and sex workers right organizations
What's really crazy is two of the people who run this thing supposedly have PHDs (In what I don't know) but I guess a college education really ISN"T what it used to be...
(Course, I could have told you that a looong time ago...)
Have you all realised that all criminals in the world have just a few common denominators?
- They all have drank water at some point in their lives.
- Most of them attended school for at least one day.
- 100%, absolutely all of them, breath air.
If we ban all those three things, the world would be much safer.
See, I don't practice religion. I'm not a religious person. I'm an avid gamer, and I enjoy the GTA games, and some of the other games you mentioned such as Carmageddon....although that is a dated game. I enjoyed Hostel, and thought it was a great film.
Despite all of this, I'm a peaceful person and consider to be a bit of a pacifist. You don't exactly see me going out and murdering people nor torturing small animals.
It's not about the games. It's about the crappy parents who neglect their children and don't give them the love/attention that they deserve. People need to quit blaming games as the cause.
I think the main problem is actually the title "Video Game". When someone mentions video games, we always think of kids. That's not the case anymore. There are games for children, and then there are games for adults. It's another form of digital entertainment and not something that should have such a "childish" stigmata attached to it. Kids shouldn't be able to purchase games made specifically for adults. That is why there are limitations in place, and why the ESRB exists.
Indeed.
Hey BTM, since when do you think PHDs are somehow more intelligent than the average person? I work in a building full of them in a thing called an Academic "Institution" (sometimes I think it's the kind people are committed to) and they generally fall into two categories; regular intelligent people with a lot education in a subject they are interested in and those who have a lot education in something they are interested in but don't have an iota of common sense outside the subject matter their degree is in. (That was a really long sentence).
This is why we get studies on subjects with outcomes that most reasoning people see as a matter of common sense, but the people running the study act as though it's something astounding.
.
Trek Geezer;My Man!!You Remember Vic Morrow in "Combat"??SO DO I!!!I Also Remember "Gunsmoke";"Man From Uncle";"Have Gun Will Travel"And All Those Shows!!My Guess Is You Must Be In Your Late Forties/Early Fifties.(I'm 47 Myself.).But I Do Agree With You.I Think It's Up To The Individual When It Comes To Movies/TV Shows/Video Games.Not The Government."People Shouldn't Be Afraid Of Their Government.Government Should Be Afraid Of Their People."-'V for Vendetta'.
"It's Hard Out Here For A Pimp!!"Is All I Can Say About It!!
I'll be 51 in April. When I was kid the majority of tv shows (of the 1 hour drama type) were Westerns. Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Big Valley, Have Gun Will Travel, Wanted Dead or Alive (I loved Steve McQueen's little sawed off Winchester), The Rifleman, etc, etc.
The things I liked most were Outer Limits (though it usually managed to scare the crap out of me), Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Man from U.N.C.L.E, and Get Smart. It was really the Golden Age of tv.
Funny thing is how many of those 60's shows are still showing all the time somewhere, can't say that for a lot of the dreck out there nowadays.
By the way Conqueroo, welcome to Badmovies.org!
I'm not bad mouthing Catholicism.I have very many friends who are Catholic.I also have nothing really bad to say about Fundamentalists.I mean,I come from a long line of Baptists;Methodists and Presbyterians and I'm Tenth Generation Scots-Irish.As long as they don't go blow stuff up like Islamic Fundamentalists or Protest at People's Funerals like the Reverend Fred Phelps and his followers,I have no tack with them either!!"When I Eat Too Much,I Tend To regurgitate.Some Hits The Table,But Most Hits The Plate.I Like To eat,Then see What I Ate.That's Why My Stomach Gets A Cramp."-'That's Why My Stomach Gets A Cramp'by Snotra.
trek_geezer Wrote:
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> Hey BTM, since when do you think PHDs are somehow
> more intelligent than the average person?
Actually, I don't, I was just pointing out the irony.
:)
Much Oblidged Trekkie.Yeah,I Still Love War Movies and Westerns.My Idea Of A Good Sunday Morning Is To Sleep Until About Nine or Ten AM;Eat A Plate Of Huevos Rancheros;Read The Sunday Funnies;Then Put "Flying Leathernecks";"The Hunters";"Thunder Road";"Red River";"True Grit";"Winchester 73"and/or "The High and the Mighty"In The DVD And Veg Out On The Sofa All Day!!*(*Yes,I Know By What They taught Me In Sunday School That Idle Hands Are the Devil's Workshop,But Then Again,Translated From Hebrew Literally Means "Day of Rest".So Basically I'm Just Enjoying My Day of Rest.).And I Admit It,I Still Love To Hear Richard Widmark Yell "COME ON MEN,GIVE 'EM HELL!!!"At The End Of "Halls of Montezuma"and It's All I Can Do To Keep From Crying at The end of "Saving Private Ryan".My Real Guilty Pleasure,Really Bad SciFi!!I Mean MST3K Stuff Like "The Giant Gila Monster";"Prince of Space";stuff like that!! "When I Was A Kid,They Taught Us In Sunday School That People Who Drank Beer;Smoked Cigarettes and Played Dominoes Would Not Enter The Kingdom of Heaven.If That's True,Then I've Been Hell Bound Since I Was Eight Years Old!!"-Willie Hugh Nelson.
Video games are actually very important for our national defense
"The U.S. Army has discovered a remote control gun turret that works, and cannot get enough of them. The army wants over 9,000 CROWS (common remotely operated weapon stations),. . .
The guys operating these systems grew up playing video games. They developed skills in operating systems (video games) very similar to the CROWS controls. This was important, because viewing the world around the vehicle via a vidcam is not as enlightening (although a lot safer) than having your head and chest exposed to the elements, and any firepower the enemy sends your way. But experienced video gamers are skilled at whipping that screen view around, and picking up any signs of danger. "
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20060310.aspx
Not only that, but the software technology that has gone into developing video games has also been very useful for military tactical and strategic simulation. This includes everything from AI to graphics/rendering. 3D video games are the closest thing to 'virtual reality' we have, and while they may be fun to play, and classified as 'entertainment,' the technology, science and engineering behind them is rock solid.
If we start banning popular video games, we lose a whole segment of computer science research funded by private sales (rather than the government dole).
Hehe, go here for an interesting article on possible advantages of being a gamer: Video games for the elderly: an answer to dementia or a marketing tool? (http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1725262,00.html)