I was watching RODAN last week, and i thought once agine about this...just how big does a critter have to be to leave "Large bad tempered animal" status, and become a true Kaiju.
Kaiju being Japanese for "skyscraper size can of self propelled, liveing woopass"?
Is there a tonage limet, or is it volume?
I'd say at least twice the size of a normal one-story house is what is considered to be rubber-monster status.
Anything a bit smaller is about American monster-movie status (although that may be pushing it)
American giant monsters tend to be smaller due to the efforts of the Skyscraper Lobbying Group. The idea of a giant monster capable of destroying a modern skyscraper should not be presented to the modern movie-goer. That is their motto.
I would say that adult Kaiju are at least fifty feet in height. Considering that most greatures will be longer than they are tall, that would make many a bit longer. We could probably go on arguing this point for a while, just like the discussion on Pluto's status as a planet.
I think it has to be building sized or better. Minya is only a Kaiju because of his family connections. Otherwise its just a monster.
Non-Kaiju examples: The Green Slime, Octaman.
But where would the Them! or The Blob fit in?
-Ed
QuoteBut where would the Them! or The Blob fit in?
I don't quite understand what is confusing about "The ants" (what, comon, Them?) It's purty obvious that it's the standing height that matters.
"The Blob" Is it classified as a kaiju in the modern sense? I would be more likely to group it as a "predatory bacteria creature", that just happened to be huge (anything goes in film) along with the thing and the alien predator.
Quote from: Andrew on November 21, 2006, 06:57:21 PM
I would say that adult Kaiju are at least fifty feet in height. Considering that most greatures will be longer than they are tall, that would make many a bit longer. We could probably go on arguing this point for a while, just like the discussion on Pluto's status as a planet.
The most reliable estimates for the 1933 King Kong put him at about 60 ft. Would that make him a Kaiju? How big was the Beast from 20,000 fathoms? And what about the 50ft Centerfold. Is she disqualified for lack of a rubber suit? Or do we need a category of dwarf Kaiju?
Would the Blob really count since it's size is based entirely on what it can eat? Remember the fragment the preacher had in the remake, it was small but had to the potential to grow all over if released. Plus would we consider it the same organism or a new one? I like the bacteria conparison.
Would maybe a certain size or ratio larger than the largest naturally occuring (unaltered/unaugmented by radiation, lab experiments, cosimic rays, what have you) example of such a creature be the standard to go by? Just a set height or length would allow things like dinosaurs or maybe whale sharks to qualify. Are revived or cloed Dinosaurs from the Jurassic Park films kaiju?
Would the various giant snakes, spiders, sharks, frankenfish, etc. that clog the schedule on SCIFi count as kaiju as long as they reached a certain length or height?
Then again by my suggestion The Killer Shrews and the Giant Leeches might count. They aren't 50+ feet but they are several times larger than the natural examples.
How's this for a definition:
"A Kaiju is a creature that will kill you accidently just cause you were in the way, and not even notice you were there"
Quote"A Kaiju is a creature that will kill you accidently just cause you were in the way, and not even notice you were there"
I'm pretty sure there are at least a few that would kill you just for the sake of killing, no accident about it.
Also on the subject, what about Gamera, he's definitely a kaiju but he won't kill children
Quote from: Mr. Briggs Inc. on November 22, 2006, 03:34:40 PM
Quote"A Kaiju is a creature that will kill you accidently just cause you were in the way, and not even notice you were there"
I'm pretty sure there are at least a few that would kill you just for the sake of killing, no accident about it.
Also on the subject, what about Gamera, he's definitely a kaiju but he won't kill children
Yeah, but thats behavior oriented, not material related.
I'd go with an opinion from Jabootu. Anything that can activly crush a car. A T-Rex could squish a man, but ...hummm..wait...forgot the truck.
Wel, now if it can toss or flatten a car, then yeah, that puts it in the mass/strength catagory needed. I mean, a Grabboid can fit in Burt Gummer's duce and a half, but not realy flatten it.
Rehndosaurs, now that can smash a car....and small buildings...and some ships...
King Kong....Japanese, Kaiju, American, large animal. Thats my thought.
Quote
Also on the subject, what about Gamera, he's definitely a kaiju but he won't kill children
In the more recent films he was created as a protector of mankind, so that might be a bad definition. He would not kill intentionally, but casualties caused by his actions become a big deal in the second and third films.
I always thought that...
#1) Has to be a Japanese movie.
#2) At LEAST 25 meters tall.
#3) Has to destroy AND/OR fight another monster.
I think that covers it pretty well.
Quote from: daveblackeye15 on November 23, 2006, 12:00:38 AM
I always thought that...
#3) Has to destroy AND/OR fight another monster.
I think that covers it pretty well.
Requirement 3 would exclude the original Gojira!
On the other hand, with the car flattening criterium we are on to something. Perhaps they should be capable of destroying a large city, say Tokyo.
What with creatures that can change size, as in Inframan?
Quote from: AlexB on November 22, 2006, 03:41:21 AM
Quote from: Andrew on November 21, 2006, 06:57:21 PM
I would say that adult Kaiju are at least fifty feet in height. Considering that most greatures will be longer than they are tall, that would make many a bit longer. We could probably go on arguing this point for a while, just like the discussion on Pluto's status as a planet.
The most reliable estimates for the 1933 King Kong put him at about 60 ft. Would that make him a Kaiju? How big was the Beast from 20,000 fathoms? And what about the 50ft Centerfold. Is she disqualified for lack of a rubber suit? Or do we need a category of dwarf Kaiju?
Excuse me, I need to be alone for a while with that image of a 50 foot centrefold in a rubber suit. :bouncegiggle:
Excuse me, I need to be alone for a while with that image of a 50 foot centrefold in a rubber suit. :bouncegiggle:
[/quote]
TIGHT fitting rubber? I'll go with that.
Size changing?....hummmm....don't know. I'm tempted to think perminant size.
But city smashing, yeah thats a given. Oh, and fleeing populace. Gotta cause THAT!
Oh whoops. What I meant to say for requirment #3 was
Has to destroy a city and/or fight another monster.
Quote from: daveblackeye15 on November 23, 2006, 12:00:38 AM
I always thought that...
#1) Has to be a Japanese movie.
#2) At LEAST 25 meters tall.
#3) Has to destroy AND/OR fight another monster.
I think that covers it pretty well.
I would add a fourth, must be able to withstand the firepower of at least an entire armoured division and then send the survivors running for their lives
That's good Denise I like that.
Guilila, Gamera, Godzilla, Gappa, Yongary, Rodan, and SO many others could not be killed by rifles or artierly.
Dennis, the name is Dennis, Denise is the feminine form of Dennis, both are derived from the name Dionysious (probably spelled wrong) the god of wine and merriment. :smile:
I think we need to take off the "Japanese" requirement, there are tons of non-Japanese kaiju, including Gorgo and Reptilicus.
You're absolutely right, there's even a sort of giant sasquatch in a Swedish movie, Attack of the Animal People, is the tittle I think.
Okay okay the Japanese part isn't a requirment. It's more like it makes it a 'shoe in' if the other three parts are present.
#1)At LEAST 25 meters tall
#2) Has to destroy AND/OR fight another monster.
#3) Must be able to withstand the firepower of at least an entire armoured division and then send the survivors running for their lives. *DENNIS'*
#3.5. Is the creature in a Japanese production?
- Able to toy with heavy armored vehicles
- Able to destroy buildings
- They all want to be signed by TOHO
- Must have club membership at Monster Island
Okay, now I'm going to approach this from a different point of view... I always considered the Giant Leeches kaiju because for a leech to be man-sized is like a T-rex the size of a thirty story building. A giant flea the size of a car would be a kaiju as well, technically. If the flea were to then smash said car, kaiju status would probably be granted. And, this leads to my second unlikely candidate- Katahdin the mutant bear-thing from Prophecy (for all those unfamiliar with this movie, there's a review on this site). Why Katahdin? It's very destructive- for an animal with no special powers- and is played by a guy in a rubber suit.... a BAD rubber suit.
So here are my rules for a Kaiju:
1: Size is relatively larger than usual, proportions sometimes out of whack.
2: May be played by (A) a person in a rubber suit (B) a marionette, or in a pinch, (C) badly done computer graphics.
3: Must damage or destroy at least one man-made structure.
4: Must either fight an equally unlikely opponent monster or be seen chasing fleeing crowds of screaming people.
I am not sure CGI is worthy of being kaiju. I think practical effects are very important. Anyone can do CGI monsters.
-Ed
We're not saying good kaiju, we're just saying kaiju
Exactly. I personally PREFER rubber suits made in Japan, but if we were going for quality, than Reptilicus and maybe even some of Gamera's lesser foes might not make the cut... (Zigra was one goofy one in my opinion- not as bad a Guiron, but still...)
I don't know. I have a hard time thinking of western monsters as kaiju; its something I always associate with oriental giant monsters. Monsters like the 50 Foot Man and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms are just big ass monsters to me while Godzilla and friends are kaiju. Like they're a different species or something.
There have been some good suggestions. I can certainly agree that the Beast from 20,000 fathoms and King Kong do not fit my idea of a kaiju. Maybe we can cobble all of this together and add in some ideas from the classification of tornadoes?
Able to destroy large buildings.
Fire from 20mm cannon (or smaller) is largely ineffective. Can survive, at least for a limited time, fire from tanks, artillery, and air to ground missiles.
Size, at least 25 meters and over 100 tons.
I will avoid mentioning one possible trait: that while leading world scientists will be mystified by the creature, a young child will know everything important about the monster.
Maybe getting the stats on some of the accepted kaiju would help with the size and weight figures? Like the Gaos from the recent Gamera films. Once full grown, they would qualify as kaiju to me.
King Kong did fight Godzilla once (and won by technical KO, if memory serves)
Quote from: MonsterX on November 28, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
I don't know. I have a hard time thinking of western monsters as kaiju; its something I always associate with oriental giant monsters. Monsters like the 50 Foot Man and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms are just big ass monsters to me while Godzilla and friends are kaiju. Like they're a different species or something.
While I sort of sympathize with your perspective X, I look at it this way: Eastern-and especially Asian monsters- have more flair (a natural talent or aptitude) for being all around kaiju, while monsters from other parts of the world tend to be barebones.
Incidentally, the "50 foot Man" (I think you're referring to the Amazing Colossal Man) was sort of mutated and gained an odd sort of regenerative ability due to exposure to radiation... while the Beast was a more realistic version of Godzilla, in that it was a walking radioactive waste dump that would've eventually died of exposure if left to its own devices. They're weak kaiju, but kaiju nonetheless... Gappa could take them both at the same time, I think, but at least it would be an interesting fight :)
Quote from: Just Plain Horse on November 29, 2006, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: MonsterX on November 28, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
I don't know. I have a hard time thinking of western monsters as kaiju; its something I always associate with oriental giant monsters. Monsters like the 50 Foot Man and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms are just big ass monsters to me while Godzilla and friends are kaiju. Like they're a different species or something.
While I sort of sympathize with your perspective X, I look at it this way: Eastern-and especially Asian monsters- have more flair (a natural talent or aptitude) for being all around kaiju, while monsters from other parts of the world tend to be barebones.
Incidentally, the "50 foot Man" (I think you're referring to the Amazing Colossal Man) was sort of mutated and gained an odd sort of regenerative ability due to exposure to radiation... while the Beast was a more realistic version of Godzilla, in that it was a walking radioactive waste dump that would've eventually died of exposure if left to its own devices. They're weak kaiju, but kaiju nonetheless... Gappa could take them both at the same time, I think, but at least it would be an interesting fight :)
Doh! I need to turn in my bad movie card. I was thinking so hard about height when I was typing my post that I called him the 50 foot man by mistake! Sorry Glen!
QuoteI will avoid mentioning one possible trait: that while leading world scientists will be mystified by the creature, a young child will know everything important about the monster.
Oh dear, Andrew brought up a car of worms here. DOES the "Kenny Factor" define a Kaiju? I can see it happening.
-Ed
Quote from: AlexB on November 29, 2006, 05:17:03 AM
King Kong did fight Godzilla once (and won by technical KO, if memory serves)
Oops, I failed to clarify that I meant the American King Kong. The one that meets Godzilla is definitely larger and able to take more punishment. .50 caliber machinegun fire is dangerous to the American Kong.
Now this whole thread is making me think of an old stand-up routine by the Funny Boys about King Kong washing dishes after a dinner party and griping about annoying Japanese film producers and their attempts to get him to star in a film with Reptilicus. The line "I don't work with no FROGS!" stands out even now.
Howzabout TARANTULA? the COLASSAL BEAST? The UK ones-like KONGA and GORGO? I know...they aint Japanese....I gues Yongary wouldn't qualify,cuz he's Korean.
Gorgo is the big exception that keeps coming up to that "Japanese rule"
Quote from: Yaddo 42 on November 30, 2006, 05:29:50 AM
Now this whole thread is making me think of an old stand-up routine by the Funny Boys about King Kong washing dishes after a dinner party and griping about annoying Japanese film producers and their attempts to get him to star in a film with Reptilicus. The line "I don't work with no FROGS!" stands out even now.
Yow...i'd love to hear that routine. Reminds me of a calander of funny prints. A bunch of giant gorillas are sitting on some NY buildings, while another is "Fighting" biplanes on the Empire State Building, in the back ground. One of the waiting apes is reading "Variaty". The title? "Casting call".
Andrew : Yes! Resistance of heavy firepower is a must! Heck, Kong was killed by copious amounts of .30 cal, forget 50 cal!
The Japanese Kong is a "Toho universe" alternate Kong, so he goes beyond the "Big animal" catagory.
Oh, regards Beast from 20.000 Fathoms? He is a car/building smasher, so he counts as Kaiju. Yankee flavor, but Kaiju none the less. And he was an inspiration to Tomiyuma Tanaka, so extra points for that!
I'd like to see any of their stuff again, Flangepart, they were pretty good as a team.
One of the guys would stand facing the audience, while the other guy hid off camera or at the side of the stage and would provide all of the sound and voices. The standing guy would stretch and roar like Kong building up to a big rampage, then meekly pick up dishes, and rub away at tough spot on a dish, until he lost his temper. He would then launch into a gripe about his wife wanting to have a dinner party, and inviting people he didn't know or like. He'd fight with the dishes some more, then gripe about the Japanese producer harassing him and pitching a movie, poking fun of how he talked (the setup let them do the "bad dubbing/mismatched dialogue" bit comedians do). Kong goes on boasting he's too big a star for the movie and naming all the other monsters he's starred with/fought (and how he carried them in the movies IIRC) and that Reptilicus is an over the hill nobody. Kong says he's a mammal monster, and that R is a amphibian monster, leading to the frog line.
This bit, one about quaaludes, and one about big screen versions of old TV shows (Dennis the Menace starring Jack Nicholson!) before the trend really took off (this was the early/mid 80s) - those guys were a hoot.
Maybe Youtube has some of their old stuff. Their names were Jonathon Schmock and James Vallely. A quick look only turned up a short film called "The Irish Language Lab", never heard of it.