Just wondering how much a case of lucky casting will affect an actor's fate.
Thinking about different martial arts actors and how those that got popular seemed to luck out in the roles they took versus other.
I means is Jean Claude Van Damme really a better actor, or Martial Artist, than Gary Daniels or Oliver Gruner?
Chuck Norris or Steven Segal vs Michael Dudikoff?
Seems more a matter of having the better agent or just getting lucky in a role, then actual talent
I think in Chuck Norris's case it could have been all the big stars he knew. He taught karate to a lot of big names, in fact he credits Steve McQueen for telling him he should give acting a try .
Are you suggesting that Steven Segal is not a "big star" because of his martial arts prowess, but only because he lucked into the right script at the right time?
I have no idea who Michael Dudikoff is, but I'd take him in a fight over Segal sight unseen.
But Segal is a good illustration of the fact that a guy that should have been a punchline from day one can be found out eventually, even if the public has to suffer through a multi-pic deal to get to that point.
Full disclosure: I don't like Steven Segal.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on June 15, 2008, 08:56:24 PM
I have no idea who Michael Dudikoff is, but I'd take him in a fight over Segal sight unseen.
Michael Dudikoff is the dude from the American Ninja series. I don't think he knew any martial arts before those films, but I think it would be a good fight between those to. Maybe we should get a petition going to see if FOX will bring back one of those celebrity boxing shows so these two dudes can get it on in a ring!
Anyhow, lucky casting has everything to do with determining their fate, especially for unknowns. Once someone has developed a name for themselves, they get roles based on that and the money it can bring in. In this case for martial arts movies, you could be the best martial artist in the world, but if you have no charisma, you're not going to last very long in film. Look at Jeff Speakman...
If it would be a good fight, then Dudikoff sucks.
Actually Segal may have skill, but what I noticed is that in every fight scene of his I've seen the action is so heavily edited that an amateur could have executed it.
Unless you have a static camera that lets the martial artist show his stuff in real time, it's nearly impossible to evaluate his skill. Therefore, if your going to do heavy editing you might as well pick someone who looks the part over someone who has genuine athleticism.
But why would you ever pick a star who just plain can't act?
Full disclosure: I don't like Steven Segal.
Are we really discussing the fighting prowess of Segal v. Dudikoff?
...
I love you guys.
Full Disclosure: I don't like Steven Segal
Quote from: Phaedrusz on June 17, 2008, 08:34:10 AM
Are we really discussing the fighting prowess of Segal v. Dudikoff?
Probably not as I never really saw the American Ninja series so my remark on that one was probably off the mark.
What I had in mind, though, was that some actors gain (minor) notoriety and some don't, but it seems to have little to do with acting talent or (martial arts) skill.
The jean-claude van damme vs gary daniel comparison I think is more apropos
A good friend of mine directed American Ninja 3 and American Ninja 4 so I don't know if I can comment if Michael Dudikoff is good or not. :teddyr:
On the whole though as regards fighting skills, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and Jet Li (and to an extent, Hackie Chan) stand far out above the rest. While Steven Seagall is an OK actor, his martial arts skills look to me as though he's slapping his opponent silly. :smile:
Excuse me for responding to the topic title here, as the thread seems to be mostly martial arts, but the classic example of dodging-the-bullet casting that pops into my mind was that Ronald Reagan was seriously being considered for the role of Rick in Casablanca --
Let that sit in for a minute . . .
peter johnson/denny crane
Chuck Norris is far better than Steven Segal, even though it took Segal less time to get to be well know then it did Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris may not be the best actor out there but he does a decent enough job. Segal well, he can't act very well and his fight scenes are not that good. Hell even Don "The Dragon" Wilson's movies and fight scenes are better than any of the stuff Segal did.
Full Disclosure: I don't like Steven Segal
Quoteeven though it took Segal less time to get to be well know then it did Chuck Norris.
But he fell quite a bit faster, too
Quote from: Trevor on June 17, 2008, 09:53:05 AM
...Steven Seagall is an OK actor,
Segal an "OK actor"??!! You mean like syphilis is an "OK venereal disease"? Ooh, Trevor, you're SO lucky Andrew took away the "boo" button.
Quote from: Trevor on June 17, 2008, 09:53:05 AM
his martial arts skills look to me as though he's slapping his opponent silly. :smile:
OK, that's partial redemption.
Full disclosure: ah, you know the rest.