You may have heard something about so-called "Obama tax hikes" coming soon.
Well, this is yet another example of conservatives lying thru their teeth yet again for the countless time.
The fact is that there is no obama tax increase coming, or any tax increase at all. The truth is that the bush regime's massive taxcuts for the rich are due to expire next year, which is the conditoions they were passed under nearly 10 years ago.
A decade ago the bush regime wanted to give massive taxcuts to the rich (Hey, that and deregulating big businesses and starting wars are about all republicans do, you know. Well, trying to limit normal people's freedom of choice and impose conservative values too, I guess.) but under the law they could not pass these tax cuts to the rich without a 10 year limit because those tax cuts would explode the deficit, which it did, but under the law things that increased the deficit had to be limited to 10 years.
So the damn reopublicans knew these tax cuts would expire in 2011.
NOW that the 10 years are up, the damn republicans are screaming that obama is going to raise taxes and, of course, kill america. YAWN!
Well, they're lying because obama isn't raising taxes at all, he's simply allowing the taxcuts to expire AS THEY WERE INTENDED TO WHEN PASSED BY THE REPUBLICANS.
What they're really going is claiming obama is raising taxes because he won't keep icnreasing the deficit by extending the bush taxcuts for the rich, which isn't raising taxes at all in truth.
So when the republicans tell you obama is going to raise taxes next year, they're lying in your face, and so are the republican spokesmen like fred thompson, rush limbaugh,. glenn beck, etc.
Sounds like a tax hike to me.
Then I can't explain it to you if you're determined to see it as something it's not.
Obama is not creating new taxes, this is true but by allowing the tax cuts to expire, the areas in which those taxes had been reduced will go back up again to pre tax cut levels, so Obama is allowing taxes to go up by not renewing the tax cuts.
Obama can renew these tax cuts, which is what the republicans have always wanted and intended to do with Bushes tax cuts. Obama critics have always made the point that these tax cuts were only for ten years, but can be renewed by the current administration.
And to say that these cuts are exclusively for the rich is a lie by democrats. The tax cuts were very broad and covered a variety of incomes and business' not just the richest people and business' in america.Democrats always argue that republicans favor the rich, but individuals wealthier than me pay my wages and keep me employed. I don't care if there are people wealthier than me out there, I may not like it, I want to be rich to, but I work as a part of the big economic machine that says there are those who are wealthy, those who are middle class and those who are poor. Its the way things work so deal with it.
And democrats have never had a good understanding of what is rich and what is poor. By democratic standards, my parents are rich, just because they work hard and saved their money wisely and this is true of thousands of other americans. Just because you make 250,000 grand does not mean you have all the money in the world to spend. Most of these so called rich are very hard working people at the top of the pay scale. Many are small business owners who struggle to keep their business's going because democrats tax the hell out of their companies with ridiculous tax hikes.
And if you want that point proven look at what states are seeing the highest percentage of job loss and greatest amount of dept, they are almost all the most liberal states in the country including my own state of Wisconsin, which is seeing many companies leave due to ridiculous restrictions and tax hikes imposed by the democrats in this state.
And lastly a funny story.The owner of many company is a good guy and used to keep his own salary low in a effort to keep more money in the company. The IRS came to him one day and told him that he makes far to little money for how much his company earns. The IRS actually forced my boss to pay himself more money. How idiotic is that? It was either my boss raises his salary or be inspected by the IRS and accused of tax dodging.
Let's look at some facts about how these taxcuts affect people based on income, shall we?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908//vp/38685229#38685229
Quote from: wyckednick on August 15, 2010, 04:37:50 AM
Obama is not creating new taxes...
But he has... The HEALTHCARE LAW...
12 Taxes in Health Care Law Violate Obama's Pledge Not to Increase Taxes on Households Earning Less than $250,000
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63313
Health Care Law Means Higher Taxes For Some
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/24498703/detail.html
wyckednick ~ Agree on everything else you had said... It kind of sick how we are getting double taxed (removed Bush Taxcuts and Healthcare Law)
judge death ~ The Healthcare Law is a new tax... Removing Bush Taxcuts is just another kick in the ass. And Cap-and-Tax is floating.
The only lie I see is the Democrats is not boasting about the HEALTH CARE LAW.
You know the reason the poor didn't get any income tax breaks under Bush?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY ANY FREAKINN' INCOME TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or, more specifically, everything they pay is refunded, and many of them get back more than they ever pay in.
So ANY cuts in income tax are going to go to the top half of wage earners. THEY PAY THE MOST!
Bush tax cuts greater than health care? Probably.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jun/24/paul-krugman/bush-tax-cuts-health-care-probably/
Quote"The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts added about $1.7 trillion to deficits between 2001 and 2008. Because they (were) financed by borrowing — which increases the national debt — this figure includes the extra interest costs resulting from that additional debt. This figure also includes the cost of 'patching' the Alternative Minimum Tax to keep the tax from hitting millions of upper-middle-class households, a problem the tax cuts helped cause. Over the next decade (2009-2018), making the tax cuts permanent would cost $4.4 trillion, assuming that the tax cuts remain deficit-financed."
judge- there are conservatives here and the tone of this is no good. this is movie board no a poltics board. dialogues happen but it's not the workaday mode here. this is my opinion
Also, tax hikes are really only part of the story as far as taxes are concerned. inflation has skyrocketed in the past 10 years. If your dollar buys less that is as much as tax as anything else. the drop in the dollar has meant higher gas prices, obviously. inflation is a very insidous tax.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on August 15, 2010, 10:29:04 AM
judge- there are conservatives here and the tone of this is no good. this is movie board no a poltics board. dialogues happen but it's not the workaday mode here. this is my opinion
I agree with Lester that the tone of this post ("conservatives lying through their teeth") was argumentative and intended to stir dissent. In my view that's really not part of the culture on this board; we tend to be much friendlier and not try to deliberately antagonize fellow posters. There are plenty of political forums on the Net where people eat this kind of stuff up.
There's an unwritten rule around where I live: "There are two things you don't discuss in polite company: politics and religion." There are several good reasons for this; let's try to keep this board at least relatively polite, okay? I've left a couple of forums recently because of things like this tearing the community apart.
Some people don't know how to debate in a civil fashion; our good Judge is one of them.
Let's face it . . . no matter what decisions politicians make, some people will agree with them, some people will be against them, and some people just won't care. In general, the average person probably doesn't understand enough about the big picture, short and long-term implications of any tax cut or tax hike to have an educated opinion about whether they are good or not. People usually have a favorite TV or radio personality (Limbaugh, Maher, Oprah, etc.) and they agree with whatever that person says. Usually, people put things in terms of, "Oh, it affects my tax bracket so it's good (or bad)" or "Why don't rich people need to pay more?" I'm not rich, but I've never understood the logic that some people should be punished because they make more money than other people. This is why I generally just smile and nod when people discuss politics. I'm sure I don't have enough information about all the economics behind every decision to get all worked up. The bottom line is, sometimes the economy is good, sometimes it's okay, and sometimes it's bad. It has always been this way and will always be this way regardless of whether Democrats, Republicans or some other party is in power.
Quote from: indianasmith on August 15, 2010, 01:58:25 PM
Some people don't know how to debate in a civil fashion; our good Judge is one of them.
Funny how conservatives accuse liberals of being uncivil while the conservatives are comparing people to hitler, stalin, etc.
Gents, either debate the issue and avoid simply arguing. Otherwise, I'm going to close this thread. This forum is not the place to argue for the sake of arguing, and I decidedly hate political threads that go that direction.
Aye, gunny!
OK, Judge, here is what it boils down to:
Next year, people who are now paying less will be paying more.
That is, by definition, an increase in taxes. Some of that will be caused by the sunset provision on the Bush tax cuts (a compromise measure insisted on by Democrats) and some by the taxes that will fund health care. If Congress passes "Cap and Trade" (God forbid), that will amount to an increased tax burned on every American family somewhere between $1000 and $5000, depending on whose figures you by.
So, while you can argue semantics, your accusation that conservatives (BTW, I love the way you lump us all into a single category, as if we all share the same brain) are "lying through their teeth" is in fact, false and unfounded.
You may concede defeat now.
Quote from: indianasmith on August 15, 2010, 07:39:00 PM
Aye, gunny!
OK, Judge, here is what it boils down to:
Next year, people who are now paying less will be paying more.
That is, by definition, an increase in taxes. Some of that will be caused by the sunset provision on the Bush tax cuts (a compromise measure insisted on by Democrats) and some by the taxes that will fund health care. If Congress passes "Cap and Trade" (God forbid), that will amount to an increased tax burned on every American family somewhere between $1000 and $5000, depending on whose figures you by.
So, while you can argue semantics, your accusation that conservatives (BTW, I love the way you lump us all into a single category, as if we all share the same brain) are "lying through their teeth" is in fact, false and unfounded.
You may concede defeat now.
Nope.
Even if taxes are higher next year, the bottom line is a republican regime headed by bush and a republican dominated congress passed this KNOWING the cuts lasted 10 years.
Now you're going to try and claim "OBAMA AND THE DEMS ARE RAISING TAXES!!!"
The republicans set it up and are trying to screw democrats either way. Let the taxcuts expire and the republicans scream that the dems raised taxes. Continue them and the deficit explodes, which the republicans will blame the dems for it.
The republicans set this up, they're responsible for the taxes going up when they expire but will, of course, lie to their base and claim the dems 'raised taxes".
Naturally the rep voters will believe and parrot it, as will the fox news echo chamber.
But no matter how many people repeat a lit and n matter how many people are stupid enough to believe it, it's still a lie.
Republicans only do 5 things:
1. Cut taxes for the wealthy.
2. Deregulate big biz.
3.get us into wars we don't need so they can shovel money from the taxpayers to the big defense corporations.
4. Impose conservative christian values on as many people as possible however possible.
5. Lie about and slander "lib'ruls" on ever issue.
Quote from: judge death on August 15, 2010, 07:46:21 PM
Quote from: indianasmith on August 15, 2010, 07:39:00 PM
Aye, gunny!
OK, Judge, here is what it boils down to:
Next year, people who are now paying less will be paying more.
That is, by definition, an increase in taxes. Some of that will be caused by the sunset provision on the Bush tax cuts (a compromise measure insisted on by Democrats) and some by the taxes that will fund health care. If Congress passes "Cap and Trade" (God forbid), that will amount to an increased tax burned on every American family somewhere between $1000 and $5000, depending on whose figures you by.
So, while you can argue semantics, your accusation that conservatives (BTW, I love the way you lump us all into a single category, as if we all share the same brain) are "lying through their teeth" is in fact, false and unfounded.
You may concede defeat now.
Nope.
Even if taxes are higher next year, the bottom line is a republican regime headed by bush and a republican dominated congress passed this KNOWING the cuts lasted 10 years.
Now you're going to try and claim "OBAMA AND THE DEMS ARE RAISING TAXES!!!"
The republicans set it up and are trying to screw democrats either way. Let the taxcuts expire and the republicans scream that the dems raised taxes. Continue them and the deficit explodes, which the republicans will blame the dems for it.
The republicans set this up, they're responsible for the taxes going up when they expire but will, of course, lie to their base and claim the dems 'raised taxes".
Naturally the rep voters will believe and parrot it, as will the fox news echo chamber.
But no matter how many people repeat a lit and n matter how many people are stupid enough to believe it, it's still a lie.
Republicans only do 5 things:
1. Cut taxes for the wealthy.
2. Deregulate big biz.
3.get us into wars we don't need so they can shovel money from the taxpayers to the big defense corporations.
4. Impose conservative christian values on as many people as possible however possible.
5. Lie about and slander "lib'ruls" on ever issue.
As you said in your first post that these kind of tax cuts can only last for ten years, this does not mean the republicans created this tax just so they could yell at liberals after it expired. Obama can renew this tax cut, he has it in his power to do so. Most people who pay attention to politics know that these tax cuts only lasted for ten years and understand the laws behind it, no one is lying here.
And for christ sakes stop say "Bush Regime" like he took usurped the government of the United States. Its not like bushed tried to abolish the 22nd amendment, its not like we lost any freedoms, I was still able to say and do all the stupid crap, like during previous administrations.
Quote from: wyckednick on August 15, 2010, 08:55:22 PM
And for christ sakes stop say "Bush Regime" like he took usurped the government of the United States. Its not like bushed tried to abolish the 22nd amendment, its not like we lost any freedoms, I was still able to say and do all the stupid crap, like during previous administrations.
We can stil speak our minds for now anyway. But what gets a bit unsettling is that Liberals are so against this "Obama-Hitler" thing, when they made the "Bush is Hitler"
thing their mantra for all of Bush's terms. I guess that was OK, right? Uh yeah...
As far as that goes, look at some of the abuses Liberals used Free Speech for:
Timothy Horrigan (D-NH) saying on Facebook that Sarah Palin was "better dead than alive" and wished she was on the plane that crashed the other day and killed Republican Ted Stevens.
Harry Reid attacking MArco Rubio for being a Latino Republican.
The Westboro Baptist Church: going to the funerals of America's war dead and holding signs calling them "fags and queers" and glorifying their deaths in front of their grieving parents and laughing in their faces
Alan Grayson (D-FL) calling a Bernanke Staffer a "K Street Whore."
Apparently the Left is up in arms about Glenn Beck mocking Obama and his daughter Malia, but they laughed their asses of at the
Family Guy episode with Sarah Palin's teenage Down-Syndrome daughter.
And the Left knows that if it were Conservatives who did this, they would
never let them hear the end of it. They need to start seeing their own hypoicrisies as well as others.
Quote from: Umaril The Unfeathered on August 15, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
Quote from: wyckednick on August 15, 2010, 08:55:22 PM
The Westboro Baptist Church: going to the funerals of America's war dead and holding signs calling them "fags and queers" and glorifying their deaths in front of their grieving parents and laughing in their faces
Westboro baptist church members are not liberals.
:bouncegiggle: intelligence fail!
Seriously, how could you think they are liberal? Do you even read things before taking them out of context?
But seriously all this talk of the left doing this or the right doing that is ridiculous. You are talking like either the left or right are homogenous masses with no diversity of thought or individuality and is a bad example of black and white thinking everybody, and that is not helping with intelligent debate :bluesad:
I don't think ANYBODY claims the Westboro kooks . . . I know the Baptists across America wish they would drop our name from their church's sign.
You completely avoided my points about the Health Care taxes that start up next year, I notice, as well as the push for Cap and Trade.
Tell you what, Judge - believe what you want. It's a free country. If you cannot see the hypocrisy in your complaints about political bigotry when you are its biggest practicioner, then you're beyond help.
Quote from: indianasmith on August 15, 2010, 11:21:32 PM
I don't think ANYBODY claims the Westboro kooks . . . I know the Baptists across America wish they would drop our name from their church's sign.
You completely avoided my points about the Health Care taxes that start up next year, I notice, as well as the push for Cap and Trade.
Tell you what, Judge - believe what you want. It's a free country. If you cannot see the hypocrisy in your complaints about political bigotry when you are its biggest practicioner, then you're beyond help.
Well, as to healthcare taxes, we already have the highest healthcare costs in the world, with more people being denied care than any other country, more people losing their homes due to healthcare bills than any other country and shorted life expectancies than most industrialized countries, so if a tax helps correct all of that then it's probably a necessary one.
As to cap and trade, we need to limit greenhouse gasses and other pollution now. Period.
Quote from: Andrew on August 15, 2010, 06:19:38 PM
I decidedly hate political threads that go that direction.
Same here.
Political threads have no place on this forum.
Lock it please.
Quote from: wyckednick on August 15, 2010, 04:37:50 AM
And lastly a funny story.The owner of many company is a good guy and used to keep his own salary low in a effort to keep more money in the company. The IRS came to him one day and told him that he makes far to little money for how much his company earns. The IRS actually forced my boss to pay himself more money. How idiotic is that? It was either my boss raises his salary or be inspected by the IRS and accused of tax dodging.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Quote from: SkullBat308 on August 15, 2010, 11:06:05 PM
But seriously all this talk of the left doing this or the right doing that is ridiculous. You are talking like either the left or right are homogenous masses with no diversity of thought or individuality and is a bad example of black and white thinking everybody, and that is not helping with intelligent debate :bluesad:
This may be the most rational post on this thread.
Quote from: Umaril The Unfeathered on August 15, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
We can stil speak our minds for now anyway. But what gets a bit unsettling is that Liberals are so against this "Obama-Hitler" thing, when they made the "Bush is Hitler"
thing their mantra for all of Bush's terms.
Nobody has a monopoly on the Hitler comparisons. Loudmouthed idiots of all political stripes have been using that one since at least the 40s, and probably the 30s, to disparage any powerful person they disagree with. And in virtually every case, it has no more merit than calling the guy an a$$hole.
For me, leaning toward liberal in some ways and conservative in others, depending on the circumstances, people who consistently reside at either end of the spectrum are narrow-minded fools.