Wondering what people thought of Predator 2?
I had great memories of this film growing up, thinking it was practically on par with the original. My friend's disbelief at this led to me re-watching it a few months back and naturally my views changes substantially.
Things like the pimp-rastas, "want some candy" meme, Danny Glover outboxing the goddamn Predator(!) and plenty of other things left me wondering what my 5 year-old self was thinking.
However there's still plenty of great scenes, the battle in the train, post goofy gun drawing 'comedy' bit (designed lazily to get two dozen heavily armed people into the scene I imagine) is really brutal and tense, due to the lighting and compact spaces. Plus Bill Paxman gets stomped so fun for the whole family really.
Special mention however has to go to Gary Busey and his federales and the awesome massacre in the packing plant. A well orchestrated set piece, again with great use of lighting, claustrophobic atmosphere and swift, brutal violence topped off with Busey literally getting sliced in half.
Considering I don't really like the main character or many of the supporting ones I still did really enjoy it. I think it does a good job of creating a cramped, suffocating atmosphere and transplants many (certainly not all) of the original's motifs to the 'urban jungle' pretty damn well.
Still I can't ignore the goofy out of place comedy, like a doddering old granny barely noticing an 8-foot alien shrieking in her bathroom.
Also there's Predator 2 greatest failure, its accessory to two major crimes namely AVP and AVP: Requiem by merging the two universes together in the first place and setting up the soon to be shattered dreams of many a loyal fan.
All in all I'd say 3/5
Horrible mess of a film with paper thin characters, terrible locations, disappointing story and bad direction. The greatness of Predator was that it was set in a jungle where all forms of communicaions were cut loose making there badass soldiers appeal vulnerable. Sure P2 gives us a deeper insight into the clan and historical mythology, but when you replace a star stunned line up the likes of Weathers, Ventura, Dukes and Arnie with Glover (boring) and Paxton (annoying) then you know you got problems. I'd take the slow build up of suspense, mysterious and menace of the superior original over the dull extensive action sequences of P2 any day
Not only is it a crap film, but it gave birth to the AVP spin-off series. :thumbdown:
I love it! I realize that it's not as series as the original Predator, but it's a fun film anyways. It's definitely so bad it's good. I guess it technically spawned AVP, (some say that the idea first came from the comic book writer Chris Warner) but it could have been worse.
I did really enjoy it. 8/10
Quote from: SPazzo on April 10, 2011, 09:52:07 PM
(some say that the idea first came from the comic book writer Chris Warner) but it could have been worse.
Technically yeah, but P2 established the connectivity with the cliff hanger, resulting in AVP becoming a film reality rather then just a comic/novel/video game fantasy.
Extremely bad. No where near as good as Predator.
I loved it at the time for the expansion of the Predator character itself: The disc along with some classic moments made it super fun for me.
But then you think about it more and the flaws come out, like when the predator slices that guy and you see his legs drop, what happened to his torso? They didn't magically disappear and I'm sure they also get affected by that thing called gravity.
That and Glover 'I'm too old for this sh!t' man his pants were so high and so bad that they were the true terror on the screen.
I still find it lots of fun, but it sure has some silly moments. Some of those are just bad ones, others are so silly its fun to watch in a group.
If you want to blame Aliens vs Predator for being a bad movie, blame the people who worked on Aliens vs Predator, not some movie that only throws a little Easter egg into it.
True, Chainsaw midget. However the whole concept of AVP should have never been translated to film in the first place, and P2 being the shocking piece of crap it is lead the way by supplying a sneak preview. So with the public demand from fans, unfortunately the film had to be made which it did and its no surprise the result is worse then mediocre.
Quote from: Robocop on April 12, 2011, 05:06:27 AM
True, Chainsaw midget. However the whole concept of AVP should have never been translated to film in the first place, and P2 being the shocking piece of crap it is lead the way by supplying a sneak preview. So with the public demand from fans, unfortunately the film had to be made which it did and its no surprise the result is worse then mediocre.
You're adding 2 and 2 together and getting "cat". Stop for a second. Think.
Predator 2 wasn't a sneak preview. I don't see how that it makes sense in anybody's mind that it was. That was little more than a blink and you'll miss it moment. Hell, it wasn't even the FIRST time the two fandoms crossed.
The first time Aliens vs Predator appeared in a story was a four parter in a comic book that started nearly a year before Predator 2 came out. The Aliens vs Predator movie wasn't made until 14 years AFTER the Predator 2 movie, between then we had games, novels, toylines, more comics, and various other Aliens vs Predator stuff.
I don't get off where you're coming from saying it should never have been made either. Who put you in charge of what movies deserve to be made and which ones don't? I certainly didn't. Even if you don't like the two movies, thinking that NOBODY could EVER make a movie of it that was an good is horribly shortsighted.
Quote from: Chainsaw midget on April 12, 2011, 01:32:05 PM
Quote from: Robocop on April 12, 2011, 05:06:27 AM
True, Chainsaw midget. However the whole concept of AVP should have never been translated to film in the first place, and P2 being the shocking piece of crap it is lead the way by supplying a sneak preview. So with the public demand from fans, unfortunately the film had to be made which it did and its no surprise the result is worse then mediocre.
You're adding 2 and 2 together and getting "cat". Stop for a second. Think.
Predator 2 wasn't a sneak preview. I don't see how that it makes sense in anybody's mind that it was. That was little more than a blink and you'll miss it moment. Hell, it wasn't even the FIRST time the two fandoms crossed.
The first time Aliens vs Predator appeared in a story was a four parter in a comic book that started nearly a year before Predator 2 came out. The Aliens vs Predator movie wasn't made until 14 years AFTER the Predator 2 movie, between then we had games, novels, toylines, more comics, and various other Aliens vs Predator stuff.
I don't get off where you're coming from saying it should never have been made either. Who put you in charge of what movies deserve to be made and which ones don't? I certainly didn't. Even if you don't like the two movies, thinking that NOBODY could EVER make a movie of it that was an good is horribly shortsighted.
Wrong. Predator 2 knew very well what it was getting into by showing an Alien skull displayed on the trophy case on the Predator ship. It set the trend of what was to come, hence why its a preview or teaser for lack of better word for the birth of AVP becoming a "film reality."
I know the 'versus' concept between the two creatures had been explored in other multi-medias before & after P2. i.e comic books, graphic novels, video games, action figures, fan made content etc, but none of which hinted at the actual idea becoming a candidate for film that is until P2 nudged at it. The fact that it was 14 years between drinks is irrelevant, the film was eventually made, it was always going to happen it was just a matter of when.
It shouldn't of even been considered because it was doomed to be a failure from the beginning, and the true fans know it. Opinions are divided and that's fair enough, but my point is that Predator 2 however way you wanna look at it was the first indication of AVP entering the film world. It should have only remained a fantasy dream match-up in the form of the outlets I mentioned earlier, but because of P2 that was virtually impossible due to outraged fans demanding otherwise. P2 is to blame.
QuoteWrong. Predator 2 knew very well what it was getting into by showing an Alien skull displayed on the trophy case on the Predator ship. It set the trend of what was to come, hence why its a preview or teaser for lack of better word for the birth of AVP becoming a "film reality."
I know the 'versus' concept between the two creatures had been explored in other multi-medias before & after P2. i.e comic books, graphic novels, video games, action figures, fan made content etc, but none of which hinted at the actual idea becoming a candidate for film that is until P2 nudged at it. The fact that it was 14 years between drinks is irrelevant, the film was eventually made, it was always going to happen it was just a matter of when.
Yes. Because NOTHING has ever been adapted from other media before. Movies only get their ideas from other movies. Nobody EVER gets ideas from comics, novels, videogames, or toylines.
QuoteIt shouldn't of even been considered because it was doomed to be a failure from the beginning, and the true fans know it.
I don't have any patience for any pathetic nutjob that goes around calling themselves a "true fan" of something. I don't care how much you like something, that doesn't make your opinion on it mater anymore than other people that might like it so get off your high horse.
It also strikes me that extremely egotistical of you to think that just because YOU don't think an idea can work that NOBODY could EVER make a good movie out of the idea.
QuoteIt should have only remained a fantasy dream match-up in the form of the outlets I mentioned earlier,
So basically none of the
AWARD WINNING videogames or novels mattered as compared to a brief scene that could easily be missed if you weren't paying attention.
You obviously don't have any points to make other than "movies count and nothing else does" so I'm done with you here.
I have my own opinions on the AVP franchise in terms of the movie, but I will say that the plot of the games, or at least some of them, is freakin' awesome and the 'higher ups' have yet to truly explore where the real fun of the franchise comes into it's own: The Marines.
Sure you could have Aliens and Predators duking it out with us poor humans stuck in the middle, that could have been cool but in the movies it really wasn't that special, but add a healthy dose of Space Marines and you've got one hell of a movie and for the life of me I don't understand why it hasn't happened yet.
Stories are stories, doesn't matter whether it's game, book, comic or film. It stands to reason if the story in one of the mediums is good enough it will be adapted into one of the others eventually, and not all of them are going to be home runs. I will gripe about the failings of the bad adaptations plenty, but in the end I don't begrudge them trying, even if I think their ideas are idiotic [ie AVP 1 and 2 the films].
QuoteYes. Because NOTHING has ever been adapted from other media before. Movies only get their ideas from other movies. Nobody EVER gets ideas from comics, novels, videogames, or toylines.
I never said anything about films not adapting other source materials or screenplays. The point I'm trying to make is that up until the Alien skull trophy in P2, there was no intention to advance the idea into a full-length production. The 'tease' set the path resulting in the birth of what eventuated into a spin-off series.
QuoteI don't have any patience for any pathetic nutjob that goes around calling themselves a "true fan" of something. I don't care how much you like something, that doesn't make your opinion on it mater anymore than other people that might like it so get off your high horse.
What I meant by "true fans" are the hardcore groups of Alien and Predator. Also when did I say my opinion is any more valid then the everyday neutral supporter? That's right I didn't, because what I actually said was that "opinions are divided and that's fine."
Just a tip: dishing insults is not only childish but a sign of weakness :lookingup:
QuoteIt also strikes me that extremely egotistical of you to think that just because YOU don't think an idea can work that NOBODY could EVER make a good movie out of the idea.
This is just my opinion, obviously I can't state it as fact because that would be impossible no matter how dead certain I may or may not be.
QuoteI never said anything about films not adapting other source materials or screenplays. The point I'm trying to make is that up until the Alien skull trophy in P2, there was no intention to advance the idea into a full-length production. The 'tease' set the path resulting in the birth of what eventuated into a spin-off series.
How did it set the path? It was a brief blink and you'll miss it moment, a small easter egg, as opposed to the entire four issue comic series that preceded it. How is it what sets the path, when something else comes first and many many other things come between it and a completley unconnected movie? There wasn't even any talk of an Aliens vs Predator movie for years and years, all the while they continued to make games, novels, toys, etc etc.
QuoteWhat I meant by "true fans" are the hardcore groups of Alien and Predator.
I dislike the term true fans. It's a hollow meaningless phrase used only to make one group feel like they're more important than another. Really, what is a "true fan"? How is it different than a regualr fan? Does that mean there are false fans? It's just so pretentious.
QuoteJust a tip: dishing insults is not only childish but a sign of weakness
Which is why you just did it, right?
"You should stop calling people a jerk. It makes you look like a jerk." See where that gets us? Nowhere.
QuoteThis is just my opinion, obviously I can't state it as fact because that would be impossible no matter how dead certain I may or may not be.
You said it shouldn't have been made because it was doomed to failure. Now you're trying to back out of what you said, claiming it's "just your opinion" all the sudden.
Either say what you mean or don't say anything at all.
You come out of nowhere blasting a movie that's only vaguely connected to another movie that you don't like and is little more than a footnote in the series as a whole as being the cause of a movie that you dislike. Why don't you just blame the movie that you don't like for being a bad movie instead of the movie that's hardly connected to it at all and even then only in the most vague a way as possible.
...
Better idea. Why don't we just get back to talking about the movie that this topic is named after anyway?
This thread got kind of mean.
I love the first Predator movie. In fact, I think it is the perfect action movie. I love it, because it is so pure.
Anyway, comics were really the fertile ground for aliens and predators after the first movie came out. There was a mini-series released after the movie which was pretty much the same plot as Predator 2. It was set in a heat-wave in Los Angeles. The only real difference was that the main character was Dutch's brother, but all the major plot points were accounted for.
I think the comic succeeds where the movie fails. Then again, a lot of what I thought didn't work in Predator 2 was the casting of Danny Glover. He really seemed "too old for this s**t."
There were a lot of Aliens vs. Predator comics made, and they were made before Predator 2. I didn't think any of them were very good. Just like when they finally made those AvP movies, those weren't very good either.
I will say this, the idea of Aliens vs. Predators is a great idea. A great idea! If done right, it would have been non-stop fun. Unfortunately, it has not ever been executed successfully in movie form. (It could have been cool...)
It wasn't the brief glimpse of the alien skull in Predator 2 that set it all off, the idea had always been present. The skull in Predator 2 was a fun goof, a presentation of an idea any sci-fi would have dreamed about in their own time.
If you're saying that the AvP idea was solely a result of a brief scene in Predator 2, you're wrong, because the scenario had already played itself in comic form. If you're lamenting the fact that it hasn't been done well, I'm right there with you, because it hasn't.
I still think a good Aliens vs. Predator movie would be amazing.
Also, there have been a good amount of video games based on the concept which I hear are very good. I haven't played them, but I hear good things.
QuoteHow did it set the path? It was a brief blink and you'll miss it moment, a small easter egg, as opposed to the entire four issue comic series that preceded it. How is it what sets the path, when something else comes first and many many other things come between it and a completley unconnected movie? There wasn't even any talk of an Aliens vs Predator movie for years and years, all the while they continued to make games, novels, toys, etc etc.
I fail to see why this is so hard for you to grasp. By inserting the sneak peak of an Alien skull in the Predator trophy room it sparked off the debate that further down the line the whole concept was going to cross its way over to
film because it was loosely visable in a
film . I know it wasn't extensive, but the scene was long enough for fans to recognize the hint (unless they are unfamiliar with Alien.) From this point onward the potential match up (which started up before P2 was even made) grew stronger and stronger resulting in a popularity growth that spread over a whole host of different mediums but the biggest kick start boost of all started with teasing the fans in P2. Although and I probably should've mentioned this earlier; thats not to say the other outlets (comics, video games, toys, novels) didn't play a part in the development of the film either, more so after P2, because they did.
QuoteI dislike the term true fans. It's a hollow meaningless phrase used only to make one group feel like they're more important than another. Really, what is a "true fan"? How is it different than a regualr fan? Does that mean there are false fans? It's just so pretentious.
Well I already explained my defination behind the meaning and its a valid one that doesn't come off as arrogant or pretentious.
QuoteWhich is why you just did it, right?
"You should stop calling people a jerk. It makes you look like a jerk." See where that gets us? Nowhere.
I didn't publicly bash or insult anybody directly, WTF. Unless you're referring to the whole "true fans" thing which up till this point I assumed you'd gathered by now.
QuoteYou said it shouldn't have been made because it was doomed to failure. Now you're trying to back out of what you said, claiming it's "just your opinion" all the sudden
I stand by that statement. It's my opinion that it was doomed a failure when translated to film and that hasn't changed. Do I have to keep backing up my claims stating its my opinion this..., its my opinion that..., etc. It should come clear when I'm presenting a fact vs giving a opinion on the issue. To me its rather straight forward.
QuoteYou come out of nowhere blasting a movie that's only vaguely connected to another movie that you don't like and is little more than a footnote in the series as a whole as being the cause of a movie that you dislike. Why don't you just blame the movie that you don't like for being a bad movie instead of the movie that's hardly connected to it at all and even then only in the most vague a way as possible.
I dislike both movies, Predator 2 & AVP that is. I've already provided reasons for my displeasure with the former in my original post to this thread which is what the topic is about before we started trailing off into slightly different territory. In conclusion, P2 was a disappointing sequel that spawned an even worse crossover series.
QuoteBetter idea. Why don't we just get back to talking about the movie that this topic is named after anyway?
How about that, we agree on something.
QuoteAlso, there have been a good amount of video games based on the concept which I hear are very good. I haven't played them, but I hear good things.
They certainly are. AVP2 developed by Monolith Productions in 2001 for the PC is a blast. haven't played AVP1 by Rebellion, but the new AVP (which I call AVP3), not so good, but not terrible. It was by Rebellion too.
Robocop.
All this talk is a goof, don't worry about being right. Have fun and don't worry about getting one up on people. We're arguing about these stupid movies for fun.
I liked Predator 2. It was a fun B movie. It wasn't up to the standard of the original but how likely is it that it would have been? I think it's a mistake to expect pure movies out of Hollywood. That's not the focus there. I do think we should expect good movies from them though. If they want to see films as just product there is not much I can do about it, except maybe elect to not see those movies. On the other hand, if I am paying good money for a product I definitely want my money's worth. For me Predator 2 was a decent action sequel. I liked it much better than the Matrix sequals, for example. But that's just me.
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zn53yhjsDM
Quote from: Hammock Rider on April 13, 2011, 10:41:07 AM
I liked Predator 2.
Dah. Predator 2 ist good movie. :tongueout: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote from: Mofo Rising on April 13, 2011, 01:29:56 PM
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zn53yhjsDM
I love that video, very well put together with awesome SPX and great suit designs. Batman hasn't wore grey tights since the campy Adam West TV show, so that was good to see.
I heard something like that from a unreliable source. So I just automatically assumed it wasn't legit.
Quote from: diamondwaspvenom on April 13, 2011, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: Hammock Rider on April 13, 2011, 10:41:07 AM
I liked Predator 2.
Dah. Predator 2 ist good movie. :tongueout: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Double dah. I know I am EXTREMELY in the minority here, but I actuallly prefer Predator 2 to the original. Is it as well-crafted a film? No. Is it thought-out as well, conceptualized as well? No. Nor is it executed as well as the first one. That's how it almost always is with sequel.
Of course, I've never been accused of having an overabundance of taste. Nor would I want to be. I've often find myself charmed by the so-called "crappy" films of the world more than the so-called "good" films. Sames go for "inferior" sequels. For instance, I looooove The Exorcist. BUT... I love The Exorcist 2 even more.
The first Predator is a classic of the sci-fi/action genre, no argument there. But, honestly, is Arnold really that great an actor? No. Despite some people saying that Glover was terrible in Predator 2, I kind of like him in it. I think his casting is a bit unexpected, especially when you consider he's following up the musclebound super-soldier who starred in the first one. I've always like the "hardened, grizzled, over-the-hill, seen-it-all" type characters much more than the "super-strong, invincible, elite commando" types. Does Glover always work in the role? Is he always believeable? No and no. But, for what it's worth, I like him in this flick. I'll take "too old for this s**t" over "hasta la vista" any day. And I'm not even a Lethal Weapon fan!
I also really liked the city setting. I think the whole concept of our "developed, civilized urban areas" being the aliens' "jungle" works great, and I think OUR jungle being THEIR jungle (as it is in the first Predator) isn't as good. Showing us as the animals in someone else's hunting grounds, when we think we're in the pinnacle of our civilization, is humbling and horrific. In the jungle, everyone's an animal, everyone is both the hunter AND the hunted, so it doesn't really hit the nail on the end as hard (the "nail" here being the Predator franchise's core concept of Earth serving as a big game hunt to a more advanced, but eerily similar, extraterrestrial culture).
I also like the over-the-top ultraviolent depiction of near-future Los Angeles. It's reminds me of Robocop, depicting its setting as a crime-riddled hellhole.
One of my favorite elements of Predator 2 (which might seem like a small aspect to some people, but not to me) is the score, which I think is just superb. And I liked the development of the Predator mythology as well. To this day, when I think of what a Predator alien is supposed to be like, I think of the depictions from Predator 2, which were much deeper and meaningful than the superficial revelations of the first picture. In the first film, the Predator was little more than a hunter (despite the slightly "honorable warrior" overtones of the creature's final fate in Predator 1). In Predator 2, the alien is injected with a great deal more samurai influence, which I loved. Honestly, I think later Predator franchise entries, including many of the subsequent books, comics, and, yes, video games, oft-times revealed too much Predator mythos info, stuff that I think conflicts with the depiction from Predator 2 (in my book, the definitive depiction), and that which I reject as canon.
As far as the acting, ...Morton Downey's presence is sort of a guilty pleasure. Some people have said that Paxton is irritating in the film, but I disagree. Truth be told, I've never found Paxton to be an irritating presence. I actually like some of his goofier performances, like the one he has here. I can't help but smile when he's making an ass out of himself onscreen. His character in Predator 2 sort of reminds me of a less-obnoxious, better-adjusted version of Chet from Weird Science. And then there's What's-Her-Name. I can't remember it right now, and I'm too lazy to google her, but the pregnant chick in the movie. You know the one. I think the only other movie I know her from is The Running Man (my all-time number one favorite Arnie flick, by the way) and though she's not terrific, she isn't terrible either. The Running Man connection though is enough to give me a cheap thrill.
But the best of the best, in my eyes, is Gary... freakin' ...Busey. He's been a better actor in other films, but here the patented Busey insanity is in bloom, without being completely impenetrable (as it seems to be 100% of the time nowadays). He's still generally in control of his faculties, but you can see the seeds of the maniac he would one day become. He's intense, weird, but still reasonable.
Sometimes, with Busey, I get the sense that maybe he's not crazy... maybe he's just too damn brilliant to be understood.
Of course, there are numerous problems and contrivances that work against Predator 2. In many cases, it's a matter of personal taste. Some people look at the scene of the Predator in the bathroom, with the little old lady with the broom standing outside, as a poor, failed, and inappropriate attempt at humor. I think it's a hoot. Cheesy and stupid, yes. But that's what I find funny. But then you have things like the previously mentioned scene in which Busey is bisected, but the fate of the upper half of his body goes unknown. I've always been confused by that moment in the film, and I kind of get the sense that it was a casualty of editing room wankery. I simply canNOT believe that no one, during the making of this film, commented on the fact that Busey's upper body is mysteriously not falling to the ground after he's cut in half. I find it much more likely that something was cut out of the movie that leaves a gaping hole in the picture in which no rationality can now be found. It wouldn't be the first time.
It's also a little ridiculous that the Predator and Glover keep running into one another. At a certain point, yes, the Predator is specifically pursuing Glover's character, but before that, it appears that the entire plot falls together as a result of numerous convenient coincidental encounters between a tough-as-nails police officer and an extraterrestrial killing machine.
Even still, I like it. The previously stated reason of the Predator's depiction and the expansion of the Predator mythology being chief among them. But, overall, I think it's just as a good, fun action flick. Flawed, but no more than many a sequel.
And, for the record, I was actually greatly amused by the voodoo Rastafarian drug dealing crime lords. Call me tasteless, but I found it to be a groovy combination of exotic originality and absurd cheesiness.
Quote from: Dr. Strangelove on April 15, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
Anyone hear the rumor that in "predators" they were going to have a na'vi head on the predator's trophy column but decided not to?
That would have been hilarious.
I kind of liked it. It wasn't as good as the original but it was still a good action film and I would take it over alot of modern day action films anytime.
I liked Predator 2 a lot. It was different, it had a fun b-movie cast, it was well paced, and had some memorable scenes and set pieces, and neither took itself too seriously or too broadly comical. It also wasn't afraid to get a little messy.
Sure, it is by no means perfect, but I'll still take Predator 2 over AvP, AvP: Requiem or Predators any damn day.
That's just me though. :)
I already had heard of the bad reviews when the VHS hit my videostore, but bein a teenager I had to give it a go. And I loved it! Fast paced, some great action scenes... back then I probably thought it was better than the original, which then I found a bit dull. anatema, yes, I know.
With the years I've started noticing the bits where it falls apart, like the increasingly silly final act or the whole vodoo subplot, but it still remains a guilty plasure of mine, and I won't switch channels if I stumble into a TV airing.