Badmovies.org Forum

     I support Options 2,  4, and 5, 5 stating my opinion that both of these social catalysts are deliberately designed to aid in the process of reducing America to a third world, socialistic backwater.

I see this going well...

I think they contribute to the Balkanization of our country, where rather than combining into one great and homogenous population, we barricade ourselves with those who speak, believe, and think as we do and regard all others with suspicion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for honoring our heritage - a big part of being conservative is recognizing the importance of what has gone before.

But when cultural identity is more wrapped up in where  our grandparents came from and who wronged them than in the place where we are right now, and the culture we take part in every day, divisiveness and disorder become more rather than less likely.

As for political correctness, tact and politeness are the heart of graciousness, but political correctness is a bit of a joke with a punchline that seems to elude many people.

What defines a country, besides its borders, is a sense of shared ideals and traditions, agreed-upon values, laws, customs. When you see a population increasingly becoming composed of groups who share few hallowed traditions, even less and less a common language, you have to raise the question of to what exact extent a mass of people still merits the term "nation." The Japanese have been a homogenous people and have been tremendously successful. The Balkans has been a multi-cultural region and has rarely known peace. No one can predict the future but a good indicator is the past, and the past has not provided many examples of successful long-term experiments in multiculturalism. Nor does the present: Sri Lanka, the Balkans, much of present-day Europe, the Middle East, the former Soviet Union, heck, even swaths of Austin, Texas. I think xenophobia is innately part of who humans are, and that's rarely been to our collective benefit, but we ignore its influence at our peril. Tolerance is mostly good; imitating what succeeds is pragmatic. The most long-lived culture on earth may just be that of the Jews, and they've endured by a combination of very selective assimilation, and by having the exact opposite of multi-culturalism at their heart. I find it hard to argue with their odds-defying success.

Tradition is giving our ancestors a vote.
--G.K. Chesterton

If you look around the world urban areas tend to be more liberal and rural ones more conservative. They should stop forcing their beliefs on each other wether it's here, Iran, or wherever.

Living in Canada, I cannot imagine anything but a multicultural society. Political correctness has perhaps gone a bit too far though. We just have to learn to accept and get along with each other. I agree with late former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau:

"There is no such thing as a model or ideal Canadian. What could be more absurd than the concept of an "all Canadian" boy or girl? A society which emphasizes uniformity is one which creates intolerance and hate. A society which eulogizes the average
citizen is one which breeds mediocrity. What the world should be seeking, and what in Canada we must continue to cherish, are not concepts of uniformity but human values: compassion, love, and understanding."

Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

Don't get me wrong.  Love and understanding are all well and good.  But if, as John Lennon sang, there is "nothing to fight or die for" there is also nothing worth living for.

Conflict has been a part of human existence from the dawn of time. The best we can to is strive to always be on the side of right.

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 05:47:37 PM
...Don't get me wrong, I'm all for honoring our heritage - a big part of being conservative is recognizing the importance of what has gone before...

Y'mean like Mexico in Texas?   :question:

Actually, we celebrate Cinco de Mayo, we love mariachi bands, and every town in Texas seems to be required by law to have at least six Mexican restaurants . . . so yes, good example!!!!! :teddyr:

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

Don't get me wrong.  Love and understanding are all well and good.  But if, as John Lennon sang, there is "nothing to fight or die for" there is also nothing worth living for.

Conflict has been a part of human existence from the dawn of time. The best we can to is strive to always be on the side of right.

And die like Christ? 

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

I may be missing the point here, but I don't see what that has to do with multiculturalism and political correctness.

Christ died for what was right.  Emulating him is not a bad thing.

It was a response to an earlier post,  dean.  Kinda veered from the original topic.

I dunno about the "PC" bulls**t....but I DO know if we are more tolerant of other cultures,it would be a nicer world.
I mean-are we so insecure about our identity as a nation to be afraid ?
THATS the heart of bigotry.
WWe came here and stole this land-it's not like the majority of use are ancestorialy North American...white,black,brown,yellow,pink,-f**king green someday maybe!

I thought that what made America what it is.
What happened to the great "melting pot?"
And is that "Give us your tired masses yearning to breath free-" stuff old hat blather?  :bluesad:

I guess I'm an idealist-which is NOT "PC".....and a pessimist.

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/RCMerchant/121209.jpg)

Quote from: JaseSF on September 06, 2012, 10:07:02 PM"A society which eulogizes the average
citizen is one which breeds mediocrity..."

This.  The next step is reprehensible: exalting mediocrity and perpetrating the falsehood that it is equivalent to excellence, whilst castigating true excellence as being elitist...

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

Unless I misread Trudeau's quote, he addressed that right in the middle. By placing too much importance on fitting in, you discourage excellence.

But I also find multiculturalism to be more than a little divisive. Even the most tolerant people can tend to shy away from those who are different, and if they also dress differently and speak a different language in public, it does kind of put up a wall. I know people, who I wouldn't call bigots, who would take that as a sign of disrespect, or at least a desire to have nothing to do with the rest of us. Might not be accurate, might not be rational, but it is human nature.

And there is really nothing that says you have to choose between one culture and another. I see that with many of the nationalities that historically made up the Canadian population. To use my own ancestry as an example, there are plenty of Scottish Canadians (many of whom have never even been to Scotland) who have tartans, family crests and assorted Scottish bric-a-brac decorating their homes and offices, read about Scottish history, enjoy (or even play) bagpipes, attend Scottish festivals and highland games, eat haggis, drink Scotch and quote Robert Burns, and might even wear a kilt on special occasions. But, they aren't doing that in the course of their daily business.

On the one hand, I think diversity enriches a culture, but I also see the need for a common culture.

Ho hum here we are  at the Badmovies.org  daily societal/ political discussion .

I'm really disappointed in some of  you guys 

Why don't one or you email sometime when there is an interesting movie to discuss.

Quote from: trekgeezer on September 07, 2012, 09:55:49 AM
Ho hum here we are  at the Badmovies.org  daily societal/ political discussion .

I'm really disappointed in some of  you guys 

Why don't one or you email sometime when there is an interesting movie to discuss.

Trek,

I do not like the political threads either.  Truth be told, I've come to hate them.  However, the best response if you are not interested in them is probably to ignore them.  Unfortunately, I cannot do so because it is almost mandatory that the mods have to keep an eye on them.

I'll be happy when the election is over and people go back to normal.

Quote from: Newt on September 07, 2012, 08:09:54 AM

Quote from: JaseSF on September 06, 2012, 10:07:02 PM"A society which eulogizes the average
citizen is one which breeds mediocrity..."

This.  The next step is reprehensible: exalting mediocrity and perpetrating the falsehood that it is equivalent to excellence, whilst castigating true excellence as being elitist...

And the next step is country music. :teddyr:

Quote from: Allhallowsday on September 06, 2012, 10:45:44 PM

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

Don't get me wrong.  Love and understanding are all well and good.  But if, as John Lennon sang, there is "nothing to fight or die for" there is also nothing worth living for.

Conflict has been a part of human existence from the dawn of time. The best we can to is strive to always be on the side of right.

And die like Christ? 

      We die, to rise again, as He did.

Quote from: Andrew on September 07, 2012, 10:10:30 AM

Quote from: trekgeezer on September 07, 2012, 09:55:49 AM
Ho hum here we are  at the Badmovies.org  daily societal/ political discussion .

I'm really disappointed in some of  you guys 

Why don't one or you email sometime when there is an interesting movie to discuss.

Trek,

I do not like the political threads either.  Truth be told, I've come to hate them.  However, the best response if you are not interested in them is probably to ignore them.  Unfortunately, I cannot do so because it is almost mandatory that the mods have to keep an eye on them.

I'll be happy when the election is over and people go back to normal.

     ANDREW (and everyone else)

As the one who started this thread, I simply wanted the opinions of those who wanted to give them,not to start an argument, or to provide fodder for snarky remarks; I'm sure just about everyone hates that sorta thing, because it precludes true discussion.

Generally, I've seen mainly civil discussion, even civil disagreement on this board, and I applaud the collective maturity of the members and guests.

Great replies RC, Andy and Newt. i can't say honestly I understand where Indy is coming from but he's entitled to his take too. I don't think anyone ever said multiculturalism would be easy. Look at the divisions between the English and the French in Canada to this day. Still the basic idea that each culture should be allowed to exist within one Canada is a good one. Honestly I consider the Newfoundland culture to be distinctive itself. The multicultural world will happen whether one likes it or not I suspect or it'll be some weird mix of everything. Who knows? Still I like that in Canada different cultures are allowed to continue existing.

Why don't people tell China to be more multi cultural? Why is it always the US and Europe? Theres nothing wrong with an area being monolithicly caucasian.

I dont wanna be the Red Skull-Idont wanna be Captain America-I wanna be the Sub Mariner if I grow up.

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6061/fantasticfour102.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/fantasticfour102.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

you mean Prince namoor  :hatred:

Quote from: AndyC on September 07, 2012, 08:50:15 AM

Quote from: indianasmith on September 06, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Where in that mix is the drive to excel? To succeed? To invent?

Unless I misread Trudeau's quote, he addressed that right in the middle. By placing too much importance on fitting in, you discourage excellence.

But I also find multiculturalism to be more than a little divisive. Even the most tolerant people can tend to shy away from those who are different, and if they also dress differently and speak a different language in public, it does kind of put up a wall. I know people, who I wouldn't call bigots, who would take that as a sign of disrespect, or at least a desire to have nothing to do with the rest of us. Might not be accurate, might not be rational, but it is human nature.

And there is really nothing that says you have to choose between one culture and another. I see that with many of the nationalities that historically made up the Canadian population. To use my own ancestry as an example, there are plenty of Scottish Canadians (many of whom have never even been to Scotland) who have tartans, family crests and assorted Scottish bric-a-brac decorating their homes and offices, read about Scottish history, enjoy (or even play) bagpipes, attend Scottish festivals and highland games, eat haggis, drink Scotch and quote Robert Burns, and might even wear a kilt on special occasions. But, they aren't doing that in the course of their daily business.

On the one hand, I think diversity enriches a culture, but I also see the need for a common culture.

     I believe that "culture" can be individual, sorta like a big theatrical trunk you open, and wear what you want to, regardless of genetics.

While I agree with the idea that you define yourself by your own preferences, I don't agree with it as a definition of culture. Culture, to me, deals with a population, or at least a group with some common connection. A personal culture seems a little bit like a one-man fad.

My point was more that I know people who cherish and enjoy their heritage, but don't necessarily live it full-time. They are, first and foremost, residents of the place where they live right now. It's not really an either-or situation. You can be true to where you come from AND fit in where you are. We all have different layers of identity - our self, family, profession, nationality and on down the list.

I'm not a huge fan of fitting in for its own sake, but I do acknowledge that some amount of it is necessary to form a cohesive community. At the very least, you need to share a common tolerance of differences. Seeing multiculturalism in action, what always strikes me is that one group will go out of their way to accommodate another, who will feel little obligation to reciprocate, which in turn leads to resentment. I think there is an irony in multiculturalism, in that it's built on the assumption that all these different cultures share the same ideals of equality and tolerance and wondrous diversity. Kind of naive, really.

You are a wise man.

I want to be the Batman. :teddyr:

Quote from: indianasmith on September 09, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
You are a wise man.

I want to be the Batman. :teddyr:

     I thought you were....:question:

I personally do not like political correctness. I'm not going around trying to offend folks so I don't need someone telling me I have to say things in a way they approve of. Multiculturalism is a way of life here in America....one of the major building blocks of our society. As long as you are a decent person,here honestly or here to try and become a citizen. If you are simply here to get what you can and spit on us then please leave....this is a wonderful country and we all need to pull together as a nation....we shouldn't have to provide for the ungrateful.
I realize that may sound harsh but I just want us all to be as one nation,not a bunch of warring cultures fighting over America.

Quote from: tracy on September 10, 2012, 03:05:18 PM
I personally do not like political correctness. I'm not going around trying to offend folks so I don't need someone telling me I have to say things in a way they approve of. Multiculturalism is a way of life here in America....one of the major building blocks of our society. As long as you are a decent person,here honestly or here to try and become a citizen. If you are simply here to get what you can and spit on us then please leave....this is a wonderful country and we all need to pull together as a nation....we shouldn't have to provide for the ungrateful.
I realize that may sound harsh but I just want us all to be as one nation,not a bunch of warring cultures fighting over America.

     Exactly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vg8-VdGTQU&feature=related

Quote from: tracy on September 10, 2012, 03:05:18 PM
Multiculturalism is a way of life here in America....one of the major building blocks of our society.

There is more to multiculturalism than just having a country of immigrants and their descendants, enriched by the various traditions they brought with them. Multiculturalism, as a philosophy or a government policy, basically says that all of those imported cultures are equal to the dominant local culture. In effect, there is no "official" local culture. That's what we've got in Canada.

In contrast, there is the "Great American Melting Pot" which is not multiculturalism, although people do confuse the two. In a melting pot, everything runs together and becomes part of a homogenous whole. Multiculturalism is more analogous to tossing solid pieces into the same bucket, where they might mix together if conditions permit, but you aren't going to heat it or stir it.

They took it to far in the 90's. people got carried away with offending everybody. It's more sensible now.