http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-school-district-locked-down-shooting-report-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html)
A sad day in the United States, and where I say that we should put more weight on selling guns.
my thoughts goes out to those who died at the hands of the crazed killer. •▬•
This really breaks my heart....innocent children and adults just trying to start their day of learning. Why do they have to kill others to make whatever point they want to make? I have to wonder if they send out signals that people around them ignore. Were they abused or bullied? Killing innocents is never....NEVER...the answer!
Well said, Tracy.
This is a horrible thing. I know it is an easy, knee-jerk reaction to blame the guns.
But this is America. We have always had guns. When I was in high school, during
deer season, every single truck in the parking lot had a rifle or shotgun riding in the
gun rack. I went to a rough high school. There was a lot of drug abuse, a huge disparity
of incomes between rich and poor, and fist fights on a frequent basis. But we NEVER
shot each other. This is not about guns. There is something profoundly wrong with
our society that new handgun laws will never change. My best friend, a sociology major,
blames the de-institutionalization of the mentally ill. Maybe that is a part of it - there
are a lot of borderline ticking time bombs walking around that used to be locked up,
apparently. But is that all? Why is it, when overall violent crime is at a 40 year low,
that there seems to be this sudden increase in 'spree killings'?
I guess these are unanswerable questions. But my heart breaks for all those poor children
and their families.
What is wrong with us? :bluesad:
It must mean something. Why did this person decide to do this?
This is incredibly sad.
:bluesad: :bluesad: :bluesad:
Wanted to kill his mother, apparently. Why all the kids, though? Just for the attention, probably.
Quote from: indianasmith on December 14, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
Well said, Tracy.
This is a horrible thing. I know it is an easy, knee-jerk reaction to blame the guns.
But this is America. We have always had guns. When I was in high school, during
deer season, every single truck in the parking lot had a rifle or shotgun riding in the
gun rack. I went to a rough high school. There was a lot of drug abuse, a huge disparity
of incomes between rich and poor, and fist fights on a frequent basis. But we NEVER
shot each other. This is not about guns. There is something profoundly wrong with
our society that new handgun laws will never change. My best friend, a sociology major,
blames the de-institutionalization of the mentally ill. Maybe that is a part of it - there
are a lot of borderline ticking time bombs walking around that used to be locked up,
apparently. But is that all? Why is it, when overall violent crime is at a 40 year low,
that there seems to be this sudden increase in 'spree killings'?
I guess these are unanswerable questions. But my heart breaks for all those poor children
and their families.
What is wrong with us? :bluesad:
In regards to de-institutionalization, I do think that's part of the problem. The other part being that it's still not easy to get access to good mental health services or even support within the community (hell, finding support in your own home can be difficult enough), especially if you're poor or unemployed. Throw in stuff like this contributing to the social stigma that comes with mental illness, and...yeah, it's not a pretty picture. The only part I'd say guns have to play in these sprees is simply that they make it easier to hurt and kill more people more quickly than, say, a knife. Guns don't kill people, but a variety of unfortunate circumstances can bring someone to a point where picking up a gun and hurting either themselves or others seems like a good idea.
Can we please not politicalize this?
A terrible day for our country, I am heartbroken.
This may have had more of an impact on me than 9-11. Im devestated by the news. :bluesad:
My two sons are in the same age group as the kids in that school (one is in kindergarten, the other in 4th grade) so this news hit particularly close for my wife and I. I've spent the bulk of the day feeling like I'm either going to cry or barf.
If there is a Hell, I hope the shooter is roasting in the deepest, darkest pit of it as I type this.
God help us.
I wasn't trying to politicize it, and if it came across that way I apologize. I am just still in shock.
I'm with bob. It's bad enough having to see this again be blamed on Mass Effect or other typical scapegoats.
I'm having trouble sleeping, I can't stop thinking about this.
:bluesad: :bluesad: :bluesad:
The world changed today and now grade schools are one less place people will feel completely safe at.
The spy/salon 40 minutes from my house in Brookfield, the temple 20 minutes from my house in Oak Creek, the theater in Colorado, a mall in Oregon and now this. These type of shootings have taken place way much year.
This is a definite tragedy, and it doesn't make the prospect of sending my own son off to school in a few years easier to deal with. :bluesad:
I don't think this is political....I think that through movies,television and video games people have become desensitized to killing and death. "Just pick up a gun and solve your problems". No....I'm not for more gun control but a gun is so much less personal than a knife or a beating. It somehow distances the killer from the victim. I don't know why that is but,for goodness sakes,don't let this allow people to take our guns away.
Sorry...no more politics.
Quote from: tracy on December 15, 2012, 12:30:00 PM
I don't think this is political....I think that through movies,television and video games people have become desensitized to killing and death. "Just pick up a gun and solve your problems". No....I'm not for more gun control but a gun is so much less personal than a knife or a beating. It somehow distances the killer from the victim. I don't know why that is but,for goodness sakes,don't let this allow people to take our guns away.
Sorry...no more politics.
You almost had me there, Trace. You're a good lady
Quote from: tracy on December 15, 2012, 12:30:00 PM
I don't think this is political....I think that through movies,television and video games people have become desensitized to killing and death. "Just pick up a gun and solve your problems". No....I'm not for more gun control but a gun is so much less personal than a knife or a beating. It somehow distances the killer from the victim. I don't know why that is but,for goodness sakes,don't let this allow people to take our guns away.
Sorry...no more politics.
Good post, Tracy. You mention the natural fear many law-abiding citizens have at this point, that new gun laws will be borne simply out of partisan politics, w\o any regard to or for the lawfully owning citizens among us.
Right now, the last thing we need is for the lawmakers to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Well-thought-out common sense measures must strike a balance between public safety and the maintenance of Constitutional rights.
Looking back, the Colorado Movie House massacre
could have been prevented, or at least the threat could have been reduced...online sales of guns and ammo should have been banned in the first place.
In-store-sales only. This way, the dealer could have seen the buyer face-to-face, and, realizing the
size of the order he placed, could have called the police for questioning. Noone needs 3 weapons or 1,000+rounds at a a single time.
Right now, cooler heads must prevail, and in such a politically charged arena as THIS one, this will be a true challenge for both parties to work together on an issue that has, in the past, become very ugly when it came down to brass tacks.
BTW, folks-my last post wasn't meant to politicize. if I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize.
Umaril
I think you struck a very reasonable and well-stated position that makes a great deal of sense.
Quote from: indianasmith on December 16, 2012, 09:06:21 PM
I think you struck a very reasonable and well-stated position that makes a great deal of sense.
Well, that makes me happy to know, and thanks Indy.
Already as we speak the left-wing knee-jerkers are calling for a gun-free country and as I said, cooler heads need to prevail, and personal agendas have to avoid trumping peoples' rights. Good luck with
that one...
Can't we just outlaw automatic guns, I mean I can see pistols, a little bit of shot guns, but not automatic guns.
What happened at this school is way beyond sad and way beyond being able to be explained away. :bluesad: :bluesad: Also, President Obama's speech at the high school was not that of a President at all but that of a father.
Quote from: El Misfit on December 17, 2012, 09:46:12 PM
Can't we just outlaw automatic guns, I mean I can see pistols, a little bit of shot guns, but not automatic guns.
Agreed. However, the problem here is that in many states, there are "gray areas" with a lack of explicit standards with which to define an assault weapon.
That said, this allows agenda-driven lawmakers to lump many NON assault weapons into the assualt weapons category based solely on personal whims and subjective basis.
This quote from the case of
Papachristou vs. The City of Jacksonville says it all:
"
Vague statutes offend due process by failing to provide explicit standards for those who enforce them thus allowing arbitrary and dicrimintatory enforcement."
Gun ownership is still a hotly debated and divisive argument. And it dosen't help when you have people ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Again, balance has to be struck or else the new laws will mean nothing.
Sadly,whether we want it to or not this is rapidly becoming a political issue. The gun control lobby and people in Congress that want stricter laws are going to use this. Alan and I were talking to a veteran yesterday and I have to agree with him....people who want to kill will get guns somehow or use another weapon. I think that Congress should not use this tragedy as a focus for their own agendas. I think this was a very deep wound to America's trust and working it around to politics cheapens it. Besides,as that gentleman said,it isn't the guns that kill....it's sick people.
Quote from: Umaril Has Returned on December 16, 2012, 12:49:29 PMNoone needs 3 weapons or 1,000+rounds at a a single time.
Except that's not a very large order. Papaw would routinely buy well over 1000 rounds at a time to replenish his stash after shooting at crows, coyotes, feral hogs, and the like, plus just shooting at targets for practice and fun. And three guns at a time isn't a big deal either for, say, a collector or just someone wanting to buy his kids their first guns.
I have decided that every school campus needs to have at least one, and in larger schools, two or three personnel who are trained to use weapons and required to maintain decent proficiency with them.
Well those a***ole @ the Westboro Baptist Church was gonna picket the funeral for the victims, however, the Anonymous group has hacked into the system and gave out personal info from the WBC members, plus the WBC has been official now been labelled as a hate group from We the People petitioning to label them as such.
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397144_308227835955335_1407017838_n.jpg)
The number is growing still, I heard it was up to 83K+
does seem that countries with strict gun laws have a lot less gun deaths though.
You know, I can honestly say that I would not be at all surprised if someone aims a little gun violence at WBC one of these days. You can only sow hatred and vindictiveness so long before it comes back to bite you!
Quote from: El Misfit on December 18, 2012, 10:51:47 PM
Well those a***ole @ the Westboro Baptist Church was gonna picket the funeral for the victims, however, the Anonymous group has hacked into the system and gave out personal info from the WBC members, plus the WBC has been official now been labelled as a hate group from We the People petitioning to label them as such.
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397144_308227835955335_1407017838_n.jpg)
The number is growing still, I heard it was up to 83K+
About time, those guys are scum.
Quote from: bob on December 19, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
Quote from: El Misfit on December 18, 2012, 10:51:47 PM
Well those a***ole @ the Westboro Baptist Church was gonna picket the funeral for the victims, however, the Anonymous group has hacked into the system and gave out personal info from the WBC members, plus the WBC has been official now been labelled as a hate group from We the People petitioning to label them as such.
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397144_308227835955335_1407017838_n.jpg)
The number is growing still, I heard it was up to 83K+
About time, those guys are scum.
Might make people feel better, but there's no such thing as a "legally recognized hate group," at least at the Federal level.
Quote from: akiratubo on December 18, 2012, 02:20:35 PM
Quote from: Umaril Has Returned on December 16, 2012, 12:49:29 PMNoone needs 3 weapons or 1,000+rounds at a a single time.
Except that's not a very large order. Papaw would routinely buy well over 1000 rounds at a time to replenish his stash after shooting at crows, coyotes, feral hogs, and the like, plus just shooting at targets for practice and fun. And three guns at a time isn't a big deal either for, say, a collector or just someone wanting to buy his kids their first guns.
True, that.
It was actually a larger number of ammo the Colorado shooter ordered,(around 2 or 3K
if I recall right) but I was using this as a stepping stone to the actual amount he ordered, so my apologies for any misgivings there.
The point was that ultimately that it was a number of firearms and rounds that were bought by one person, which I guess noone really addressed until it recently came to light after the fact. Hope that helps clear it up, thanks.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 18, 2012, 11:20:42 PM
does seem that countries with strict gun laws have a lot less gun deaths though.
That's true to be sure. However, in the wake of gun bans, it's been said that violence in places like the UK has risen, in the form of knifings or clubbings and sometimes gang beatings. Not sure of the validity of the statements, but there does seem to be a basis for the claim according to some.
Also more interesting, is the somewhat high amount of gun violence in Eastern Europe, despite the govt's there banning personal possession of a weapon.
I do believe there's a reason for this though: black markets.
When the Soviet Union broke up in the 90's, the massive amounts of Cold War-era weaponry went black market, thru arms dealers who had direct connection to the military and organized crime. Let's face it, the fact that 3\4 of the Third World is using AK's and other Russian weaponry should be a testament to the size of the weapons stocks the Soviets turned out at one time. Just my take on it anyhow...
Quote from: El Misfit on December 18, 2012, 10:51:47 PM
Well those a***ole @ the Westboro Baptist Church was gonna picket the funeral for the victims, however, the Anonymous group has hacked into the system and gave out personal info from the WBC members, plus the WBC has been official now been labelled as a hate group from We the People petitioning to label them as such.
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397144_308227835955335_1407017838_n.jpg)
The number is growing still, I heard it was up to 83K+
I think they are a hate group....and an insult to Christians.
Speaking as a mentally ill person, I blame the public education system, & all the errous human beings involved in it.
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
No, they just come in and torment devastated families who are laying their little angels to rest.
In a way, I think they are worse than those who kill and then off themselves. They are always hanging around, waiting for the next opportunity to torment those who are grieving.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 19, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
they are adding salt into an already devastating wound.
Also, isn't it disturbance of the peace illegal? :question: if so, and WBC makes a ruckus, couldn't they be arrested then? :question:
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 19, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
Nobody said they did.
El Misfit and Indy hit the nail on the head: these a***oles are adding salt into a deep, deep wound. And it's not just in this instance, they also protest military funerals. :hatred:
Quote from: El Misfit on December 19, 2012, 09:55:30 PM
Also, isn't it disturbance of the peace illegal? :question: if so, and WBC makes a ruckus, couldn't they be arrested then? :question:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
If they committed some sort of breach of peace unrelated to their free expression, then maybe. But they're too savvy for that, they've done these protests dozens of times and know how to stay within the law.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on December 20, 2012, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: El Misfit on December 19, 2012, 09:55:30 PM
Also, isn't it disturbance of the peace illegal? :question: if so, and WBC makes a ruckus, couldn't they be arrested then? :question:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
If they committed some sort of breach of peace unrelated to their free expression, then maybe. But they're too savvy for that, they've done these protests dozens of times and know how to stay within the law.
I just hope that they slip up, everyone slips up every now and then, I hope that this is one of the times. *Fingers crossed*
Well the NRA said to have armed police officer in all schools
http://news.yahoo.com/nra-calls-armed-police-officer-every-school-162851713.html (http://news.yahoo.com/nra-calls-armed-police-officer-every-school-162851713.html)
A good idea at first, however, this does not prevent guns being on school grounds if a kid brings a gun to school. Also, to stop another Adam Lanza, how about getting automatic/assault guns illegal to be sold?
Can we please change the title of the thread to 26 victims out of respect to them?
As for the NRA, they blamed everything under the sun except the guns themselves which isn't too surprising.
I just read LaPierre's entire statement. There is a great deal of truth there.
We have an abundance of gun laws in this country. So far as I can tell, the
stricter the gun laws, the more handgun violence a city has. Look at Chicago -
some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and also the highest rate of gun-
related violence.
There is a serious cultural problem, and a lot of it derives from bad parenting.
If you think it is OK to let your 10 year old play a game whose object is to
kill cops, steal cars, and screw prostitutes, you are part of the problem!!
Quote from: indianasmith on December 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
I just read LaPierre's entire statement. There is a great deal of truth there.
We have an abundance of gun laws in this country. So far as I can tell, the
stricter the gun laws, the more handgun violence a city has. Look at Chicago -
some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and also the highest rate of gun-
related violence.
There is a serious cultural problem, and a lot of it derives from bad parenting.
If you think it is OK to let your 10 year old play a game whose object is to
kill cops, steal cars, and screw prostitutes, you are part of the problem!!
You got to take into account gangs and gang wars there.
Quote from: bob on December 20, 2012, 05:45:09 AM
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 19, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
Nobody said they did.
Lester makes a good point.
I have a friend that often says
"I didn't say that!" or
"I never said that!" I'm in the habit of replying:
"You never have to tell me what you didn't say."
It's shooting fish in a barrel to condemn the Westboro Baptist Church. It doesn't take any wisdom or courage to do it. dealing with issues like this does.
Quote from: Allhallowsday on December 21, 2012, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: bob on December 20, 2012, 05:45:09 AM
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 19, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
Nobody said they did.
Lester makes a good point.
I have a friend that often says "I didn't say that!" or "I never said that!"
I'm in the habit of replying: "You never have to tell me what you didn't say."
But you're implying that someone did. No one blamed those ass hats for what that nut did, go back and check the entire thread.
No one even suggested that at all.
and I'm very offended that you seemt o be impyling that I did. Infact I mgiht be done here.
I wasn't saying anyone said that either. I was saying they were a meaningless distraction.
Quote from: bob on December 21, 2012, 10:55:47 PM
Quote from: Allhallowsday on December 21, 2012, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: bob on December 20, 2012, 05:45:09 AM
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 19, 2012, 05:59:04 PM
Westboro Baptist Church might be annoying but they didn't shoot and kill those children.
Nobody said they did.
Lester makes a good point.
I have a friend that often says "I didn't say that!" or "I never said that!"
I'm in the habit of replying: "You never have to tell me what you didn't say."
But you're implying that someone did. No one blamed those ass hats for what that nut did, go back and check the entire thread.
No one even suggested that at all.
and I'm very offended that you seemt o be impyling that I did. Infact I mgiht be done here.
I merely see
Lester's point. I don't know what you're talking about and I'm implying nothing. I know this thread well.
What do you think?
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/281249_469242303123679_675484761_n.jpg)
QuoteCitizens Form Human Block To Keep Westboro Church From Protesting At Sandy Hook Funerals
Members of police and fire departments from as far away as New York City traveled to Newtown and Woodbury, Connecticut to stop a promised picket of today's Sandy Hook funerals by the Westboro Baptist Church. The "Church," certified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, had promised to picket the funerals of the 20 children and six adults from the Sandy Hook Elementary School who died Friday at the hand of a lone gunman.
Westboro Baptist Church had posted to their picket schedule that they would be on hand for the funeral of Sandy hook Elementary School Principal Dawn Hochsprung. Reports stated that the Westboro Baptist Church members were in town but apparently didn't venture out of their hotel because of what they saw.
"Hundreds of Motorcylists lined up on Wednesday to block and protest the possible protesters," the Huffington Post reports:
"All these guys saw us and thought we were bad. We're not. It's solidarity, is what it is," New York native Jim Hannigan told Newtown Patch. "I just felt I had to be here."
More than 1000 riders from New York and Massachusetts, organized by the anti-Westboro group Patriot Guard Riders, were also in Connecticut on Wednesday to show their support, Patch reported. The lined the streets arm in arm to block any protesters that tried to cross the line.
On FDNY website, The Bravest, a posting asked firefighters and police officers to go to Newtown in plain clothes and block the protesters from the victims' families and friends during the funeral processions.
The group Angel Action, which were ready to counter any Westboro Baptist Church protests at the funerals of the Tucson, Ariz., shooting victims in 2011, created a Facebook event to gather others to protect the Newtown funerals.
The hacktivist group Anonymous, which targeted Westboro after their threats to protest, revealed that members of Westboro were staying in Hartford, Conn., in a Motel 6 on Wednesday, according to the Examiner.
Those guys are awesome! Hats off to them!
Hard core thugs? I think not!
Quote from: indianasmith on December 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
I just read LaPierre's entire statement. There is a great deal of truth there.
We have an abundance of gun laws in this country. So far as I can tell, the
stricter the gun laws, the more handgun violence a city has. Look at Chicago -
some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and also the highest rate of gun-
related violence.
There is a serious cultural problem, and a lot of it derives from bad parenting.
If you think it is OK to let your 10 year old play a game whose object is to
kill cops, steal cars, and screw prostitutes, you are part of the problem!!
Meet me at The Bannered Mare in Whiterun, Indy, this one is on me :cheers:
This is not to say I'm against age-appropriate material, but for the love of Pete, parents have to step up and be the parent. You would be suprised how many young parents I've seen at Gamestop, instinctively take a copy of the latest GTA or Call Of Duty or Dead Island,
W\O reading the ESRB advisory on the case. It's like it's a 60 dollar babysitter.
What gets me even more is how some of them come back and yell at the guys who sold them the game, because of the content. And then it's the store's fault that the game was sold to them. Ain't life great? :buggedout: