okay i am not giving away anything here about the end
i LOVED Spiderman, it was a great flick!
but.....
was i the only one annoyed with the last shot being Spidey hanging onto an American flag??
i don't know why that bothered me so bad...
probably because of the whole Twins Towers scene that got cut from the trailer...
i don't know..
i know i just get really really annoyed when i see things like freedom and patriotism being mass marketed ....
anyone please feel free to put me in my place...
or just let me know what you think
thanks
I agree. You could totally tell that the flag shot and the bridge scene ("you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us") was shot after 9/11. They were kind of grating, but oh well.
Yeah, I thought this movie would be above that sort of "en vogue" New York stuff. When that scene happened I was sickened. It would have been hilarious if the Goblin just blew the crap out of them. "You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us!" KA-BOOM! And then they start acting like real New Yorkers- "Screw you pussbags, I'm outta here! Hey, Spidey- you suck, your mom sucks and your sista woulda sucked but I didn't have exact change!" I imagine that since it was a big part of the finale it was shot pre-9/11, at least I hope so.
Watch movies like THE PATRIOT and PEARL HARBOR and you will definately see some overbearing, American flag waving patriotism that is really not needed in any of these types of films. I am not against "flag-waving", but if it's being done a million times in each scene then it does become tiresome.
But I personally did not expect to see that in SPIDER-MAN. Maybe the studio executives said we need the flag to wave in the background so they (the "bad guys") know who we are (the "good guys"). At times it does become very annoying, but "flag-waving patriotism" was done in films way before 9/11 as well so it really is nothing new.
When is Hollywood going to actually make a film that doesn't show the US as "the center of the universe". Time will tell.
As a Canadian, American flag waving in an American movie doesn't bother me at all. Nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and where you live. Knocking other countries is where I draw the line, good-natured jabs aside. Personally, I've never understood why it has become fashionable to be offended by patriotism, especially something as harmless and innocent as showing a flag waving magestically in a movie. Same goes for religious references.
It just boggles the mind that people might enjoy sex, violence, gore and all sorts of disturbing or risque stuff in a movie, but don't you dare wave a flag. Come on.
As for the New Yorkers on the bridge, it was silly and obviously thrown in post-9/11, and the goblin could obviously have blasted the living crap out of them, but it made me laugh. It's just a little joke and a tribute to New York. Again, what's the big deal? I think it sort of dates the film, and in a good way. People will look at that scene in years to come, and remember why it was done.
Andy you hit the nail right on the head with that one.
I agree. While I'm not in favor of mindless jingoism, neither do I care for elitist bashing of patriotism
Well, Andy has a point; and I don't mean to bash patriotism....in fact, Spiderman as a comic character has always been real all-New York, all-American guy. What bothered me was the fact that both scenes were somewhat out of context with the rest of the film. If anything, the fickle tastes of the public regarding Spiderman as hero or menace doesn't say much for them.....they love him, they hate him, they love him again....I didn't mind the final flag scene as much, because in many ways the slogan "with great power comes great responsibility" is particularly American. Citizens' greatest power is their freedom, yet we often don't take the responsibility it brings......so I actually like that scene. Spiderman as Everyman/American. But the NY scene on the bridge just didn't play well for me.
I am for patriotism. But when it is pushed in your face TOO MUCH, then yes it becomes apparent to me that the feature I am watching will be some overbearing patriotic movie for the patriotic audience. And if they want it that way, ok they can have it that way. I will just walk out, say it was not a good movie, and find something else to watch. It does upset me to see that some audiences need a Hollywood product that shows you what patriotism has to be rather than let the audience decide, but what are you gona' do? That is their decision, and I have already made mine.
But for me, I feel patriotism comes from loving your country and not relying on some stereotypical, jingoistic film that tells you what to be/what not to be patriotic for.
"Hey, Spidey! I got 'ya web-shooter right here!" and thn he starts chucking batteries at ol' webhead.
I'm all for being proud of your country, but seeing the little flag decals on every single vehicle on the road and all this gushing about freedom and blah, blah, blah just seems forced and a bit heavy-handed. It only took the deaths of thousands for people to become patriotic, and wasn't it worth it? I read that the consumption of "comfort foods" jumped astronomically after the attacks. We're proving that maybe the terrorists were correct in some of their ideas about Americans being arrogant. Almost wish I was Canadian so I'd have nothing to be proud of.
Off-topic: When axactly did it hit you how dead-on this adaption is to the spirit of the comic? For me it was when Pete came home late and Aunt May left the note saying there was meatloaf in the oven. I'm not gushing and I've only been a casual Spidey fan over the years, but this is a comic movie that gets it, you know?
For your information, I have been proud of being American since birth. I do admit that affter 9/11 I wanted to see people like Bin Laden get what's coming to them even more.
Honestly? I think the flag is there to add a dramatic element, helping indicate the height at which Spidey is clinging, without distracting sounds like wind. Eliminate it from the shot, and the shot becomes a lot duller. This is why so many comic-book superheroes still wear capes in spite of the sexual-orientation jokes they provoke--the cape adds a strong, controllable visual element.
The "mess with one of us, mess with all of us" bit may be overzealous patriotism, or it may just be New Yawk New Yawk. That one's a coin toss. After all, Gobby is ALSO one of "us"--but he's also the one blowin' s*** up.
I haven't seen Spiderman yet (I rarely go to the movies anymore, it's just too expensive), but I don't like when movies shove things like that in your face either.
I watch the show 7th Heaven Monday nights on the WB, and the one on the 6th was just sickening. They dedicated the show to a real marine who was killed recently, SSgt Dwight J. Morgan, and while I'm sure they meant well, the fact that they used a real person's death for a fictional show just left a bad taste in my mouth. Intsead of honoring him, it felt more like they were trivializing his death just to make a point.
Was never "cut" from the movie. A second unit director shot the footage solely for a teaster trailer, the scene was never intended to be in the film and was pulled from theaters during its run in the fall season because of the attack.
Frankly I didn't really notice the flag at the end, I was too busy enjoying the movie to care that much about anyway. But now that you mention it, perhaps we should change Spidey's colors because they use red and blue and those sliver stripes can be construed as white. While we're at let's change Superman's as well, his colors are red and blue, far too close to our flag for foreign audiences. And that shot in Superman 2, where Superman flies the American Flag and replaces it atop the White House, let's cut that out while we're at it, I mean we all know that Imperialistic America sucks right? Let's forget that a lot of the Super Heroes Mythic powers and semi-patriotic colors symbolize America's Nationalistic love for itself, perhaps.
Sheesh I'm cranky as hell today.
The flag waving scene was something I didn't mind at all, especially since it was shown in atleast one of the trailors, so I knew it was coming up at some point. And it wasn't like it was rubbing patriotism in everyones face like other movies tend to do at times. Although I don't see anything wrong with a few american movies being patriotic towards its land. I've seen a lot of Animes where they act like Japan's the greatest country around and some where they show a future that has Japan as the sole country to survive whatever took out everyone else.
But that New Yorkers on the bridge scene? Agh! I felt like walking out of the theatre during that part. It wasn't the fact that they were throwing things at Goblin to try and help Spidey, because I actually like seeing the average joe trying to help the superhero in a movie (Superman 2, Meteor Man). But after they said those lines and once I stopped groaning it popped into my mind "Green Goblin's a New Yorker too, so aren't you guys being a bunch of hypocrites?" Great movie, bad moment.
Can't wait till the sequel where we see Doctor Octopus trying to blow up a building and then a bus with an "I love New York" bumper sticker on the back pulls up and a bunch of baseball fans attack him with official New York Yankee bats. Heck, by the third movie they wouldn't even need Spider-Man anymore. ;)
I didn't see the 7th Heaven episode, but it sounds like it fits with my general feeling that real-life issues and fictional shows can be an uneasy mix. Sure there are a few examples in which fictional events are based on real issues, and it's done well (Law & Order springs to mind), but a lot of the time, it's badly done, and the lecture sticks out like a sore thumb. Think of Nancy Reagan on Different Strokes, the "shock comic" episode of Night Court, or virtually any episode of Quincy.
I suppose it's a matter of how fictionalized the events are (the more the better), how well the message fits in with the usual tone of the show, and how carefully it is incorporated into the story. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
All in the Family incorporated comedy with the issues of the time. I didn't even mind the "festival seating" episode of WKRP, which included a real-life tragedy. In most cases, I wish the makers of television shows would stick to entertaining. That seems to be hard enough for them.
Go, Chadzilla, Go!
>I didn't see the 7th Heaven episode, but it sounds like it fits with my general
>feeling that real-life issues and fictional shows can be an uneasy mix.
Basically it had the youngest daughter writing to the marine as part of a class project and then learning that he'd been killed. There's requisite scenes of "No, it's not true. It can't be him, I just got a letter from him." etc, then they hold a special memorial service where they thank the marines for protecting America, followed by scenes of the various characters doing things in his memory like donating money to some fund, giving flags to an old vet for his truck, taking food to the marine recruitment center etc, all followed by someone looking up at the sky and saying "Thank you Sgt. Morgan." each time.
I didn't mind the whole Falg scene at the end. In fact, I got kind of a "fuzzy" feeling from that that gave me chills. As for the "Mess with us" thing, I was very annoyed by that. Lord knows I would been trying to haul ass off of that damn bridge as fast as I could!!!
-Neo-
Now that I've actually seen the movie, I'd like to issue a big, fat, "get over it" on both counts.
The Flag: it's the final shot in the picture. You want a dramatic pose for Spidey in a precarious place. You couldn't do better than having him hang off the side of a vertical flagpole on top of a skyscraper. And what will be on the flagpole? At that height, what else? (Any other flag would be distracting--"Is that a corporate logo? What does THAT mean?? Does Spidey endorse Wheatabix?") If the US flag were more prominent, I'd say "maybe," but it's hardly in the frame throughout most of the scene, and not in the print ad version of the shot.
The Bridge: the quarrel between Spidey and Gobby is whether or not the people of New York are WORTH being a hero for--and Gobby's argument that they will turn on Spidey is a good one. The Daily Bugle vilifies him, cops want to arrest him, people on the street think he's a freak. Aside from a couple of grateful mothers and Mary Jane, he's not winning any popularity contests. In order for this issue to be resolved in the film, there had to be a scene where Gobby was proven wrong. And there it is. Viewers claiming they "wanted to walk out of the theatre" because of this one brief moment are wildly overreacting and need to adjust their Ritalin dosage.
Stuff to be offended by--for real:
(1) Blatant product placement. Well, at least we know Spidey enjoys (slams can into view) DR. PEPPER!!!!!!
(2) Aunt May never expresses an opinion about Spidey, or suggests she knows he even exists. That was always a dramatic point in the comic; May thinks Spidey is a horrible killer. Oh, well, there's always the sequel.
(3) All that work to rebuild the nonsensical stuff--Spidey's webshooters*, Gobby's glider and Halloween costume--into believable elements, and they stopped short. What exactly propels a non-weighted filament out of Spidey's arms in a laser-perfect straight line for three city blocks at 700mph against a New York headwind? Compressed fartgas? Telekinesis? Wishing really hard? Better version: the spinerettes actually emerge slightly from his wrists at will, blasting a small "knot" of webbing out of his arm carrying the rest of the strand. What a gross effect this would be, the first time we see it--a lump in the forearm swelling up before popping the web out!! And yes, it would be "gas," but not poot. (*The idea that a highschooler could scratch-build a miniature mechanical device capable of performing this feat--again without any means of propultion--and even create the chemical compound to make "web fluid" to boot, is patently ridiculous. Even worse, Parker refuses to share this technological breakthrough with the world, making him a complete a***ole [comic-book version only]).
"Even worse, Parker refuses to share this technological breakthrough with the world, making him a complete a***ole [comic-book version only]."
The stuff only lasts an hour before vanishing. He'd need to make it a bit longer lasting if it was going to be of any value
Plus, he invented it in his shallow Uncle-Ben-has-a-pulse days. Wasn't big on sharing, our Pete was. After he became Spider-man, it would have been foolish to do so. It'd be like Clark Kent forgetting his glasses. Everyone would figure out who he was, and the Men in Black would come and take him away, tra-la. That, or have every villian he ever took down come knocking on his door for the rest of his life.
____________________________________________________________________
Small side note here:
In the new comic book series, "Ultimate Spider-Man," the web formula was a project his father was working on which he just finished up. Just to show they could have stuck a bit closer to the comic if they wanted to.
The movie still kicked ass.
ahahaha, okay I wasn't really THAT bothered by the whole Flag Scene at the end, I didn't expect when I wrote the topic to get this much of a rise out of everyone... but it's kinda cool to see what everyone thinks about it. I think I was mostly just being p**sy about the whole thing because as some have said before... the whole mass marketed patriotism being shoved in my face has made me a bit cynical(unfortunately)... but I am glad to of heard everyone's views on the subject, and actually it doesn't bother me at all now, I think I just took it out of context at the time, and I probably "spoke too soon", especially since the whole "dramatic ending" point was brought up... I understand why the shot was used, and as stated in an earlier comment I must agree that it is more offensive to see the blatant advertising that gets thrown into this movie (as well as SOO many others), but it usually just makes me laugh more than it p**ses me off. Well thanks for your comments everyone! I enjoyed reading it all! -Kyla-
What bugged me about the bridge scene: The Goblin's spent at least half of the movie fighting Spider-Man and getting knocked all over the place, and now he's supposed to be intimidated by some people throwing garbage at him?
I also laughed when Harry Osborn hears the Goblin cackling upstairs and he says "Dad, is that you?" as if cackling is a regular occurance in the Osborn household.
I didn't like the Goblin's look that much--he looked like a refugee from one of those Japanese giant robot movies.
Still, it's one of the best comic-book film adaptations, probably second only to the first SUPERMAN film [and that might only be because I was a kid when I saw that one--kids watching Spidey today probably have the same experience I had back in 1978.] I think a lot of the credit goes to Stan Lee, though.