In case anyone wasn't aware, Episode 2 just came out, and with it came out and with it arrived reviews and opinions from many people saying it was the best since Empire, or that it feels like the first two, etc., but I don't understand quite what they're getting at. Not that E2 is good, but that Return Of The Jedi wasn't. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up on Jedi, but I think it's just as good as the first two. I've haeard some people complain about the Ewoks in a Jar Jar-like manner, but I liked them. In fact, the first time a movie really connected with me emotionally was when the AT-ST blasts those two Ewoks and the one touches his friend, realizing he's dead. Plus we finally see Luke grow out of his whiny stage and get to some ass-whooping. And Leia's gold bikini.
There was this one time at band camp when i stuck a flute up my arse - have you ever done anything like that J.R
Not sure what you're implying with the American Pie reference towards J.R. Or that you realise the puerile name you've given yourself is funny to anyone apart from you.
Anyway, back to the topic: personally even as a child I detested the Ewoks. I thought they ruined the last part of the movie. Far too sappy and cute for my liking. I also thought that Darth Vader looked like Humpty Dumpty under the mask. But on the plus side, a million teenage loins must have been stirred by Leia in that bikini, including mine .
The first time I ever saw the Star Wars trilogy completely was in the cinema in 97 when they were re-released. I that they were all fantastic, including Jedi. I was severely let down by Episode 1 because, to be completely honest, it was horrible. Empire Strikes Back has always been my favourite and I did kind of think that Jedi lacked something but it was never bad, nor did I consider it the worst of them even before Phantom Menace. As for Episode 2 being the best since Empire, I dont think so. It was certainly a VAST improvement but it still lacked alot of emotion and feeling. It was a very cold movie. But Yoda and his lightsabre saved it.
I didn't like RotJ for the reason of the Ewoks, the corny lines, and just something about the feel didn't sit right with me. I didn't like the idea of another Death Star either.
As for people liking Jar Jar or the Ewoks, that is their own right. It is all up to personal opinion. Thus why some people like certain movies and others don't. I say if YOU like it, than who cares and enjoy!
-Neo-
I didn't like RotJ for the reason of the Ewoks, the corny lines, and just something about the feel didn't sit right with me. I didn't like the idea of another Death Star either.
As for people liking Jar Jar or the Ewoks, that is their own right. It is all up to personal opinion. Thus why some people like certain movies and others don't. I say if YOU like it, than who cares and enjoy!
-Neo-
Hey,I seem to think that "Return Of The Jedi" is a pretty damn cool movie,that's as worthy as the other "Star Wars" movies.
Yeah,it did upset people that both the Imperial Empire and Darth Vader met their end,and that the Ewoks were added to entertain the kiddie crowd(as was Jar Jar in "The Phantom Menace"),but,it was exciting to see Han Solo back ,Luke having grown into his own confident Jedi self/hero,and Leia in that sexy scanty outfit on Jabba's personal yacht.
And,I highly doubt it that "Episode 3" will be the very last "Star Wars" movie,since George Lucas will ,in three to five years after that film,feel hungry for some more "Star Wars" cash,and hire a Cameron/Raimi/Jackson-calibre filmmaker to film the other remaining episodes(7,8,and 9),and the heavy fan demand will cause him to give in,as well.
Now,those later episodes would be very interesting,seeing how Luke's attempt to resurrect the Jedi legacy(with new,younger warriors joining him)in a new,post-Empire generation,and how he and the other old school veterans adjust to that time period(and battle that era's new villains,as well).
I don't dislike ROTJ, but I could have done without all the puppet characters. Honestly, it should have been titled The Muppets Vs. The Empire. The pig guards, Jabba's band and the other weird aliens that looked absolutely silly when compared to the cantina, and of course the Ewoks. This was also the thing I disliked the most about Phantom Menace. The two-headed pod-race announcer looked like something you'd expect to see in a spoof.
>in a new,post-Empire generation
I never understood how the death of the emperor destroyed the entire empire. Won't someone else step up to assume control? Even if nobody else becomes emperor, there's still the matter of thousands of Imperial bases, troops etc. I doubt they'd all just give up their way of life just because one guy died.
Ah but thats what the books are for. I havent read many of them but the jist of it seems to be the on-going fight against the empire that is struggling to regain control. The books flesh it out alot more, but I dont have the patience to read them.
Well, i gave up on the books after the end of the X-wing series, but the idea of the Emperiors death cracking open the Imperial monolith is logical. After such a talented megalamanicac cacks off, the lower vermin will dogfight to see who's on top, and unless a "Great unifiying preditor" like Palpatine comes along, it all fall down go boom. Still, the film only implyed all that, and the books were left to mop up the details. I liked the X-wing series best, as i've always been an armchair fighter jock, and the Average hero status of Wedge Antillies and Rogues always suited me. Check six!
Of the "classic" trilogy (and I use the term quite loosely) RotJ is the one that has most worn out its welcome with me. There just isn't enough original story to hold the movie together, much less my interest, for two hours and fifteen minutes. RotJ just perfunctorially ties up one plot thread after another with a rousing (albeit overlong) action scene and ends with a rehash of the first Star Wars climatic battle with amped up special effects. Boba Fett's easy dismissal from the action also burnt my beans. Granted it's fun a movie, but it feels strained and somewhat empty of the magic, mystery and fun that made the first two films such hits (although I admit to really disliking Empire the first time I saw it because it was too dark for my childhood taste - I wanted Luke, Leia, and Han to open a can of Wup Ass on Darth, not get their collective butts kicked from here to the rubble of Aladeran). Also I think Harrison Ford should be ashamed of himself, I know that by the time this movie came out he was an A List actor, but he could have at least tried. Clearly he didn't, his acting is lifeless, more times than not he just simply says his lines without bothering to fake emoting , in fact he looks embarrassed(compare his performance in RotJ with his acting in the first two films and you'll see what I mean).
But hey Dude, if you like the movie then rock on.
Lucas has stated again and again that he had the entire saga mapped out from day one and he is the all-powerful puppet master, yadda, yadda. But really, would Boba Fett even be in Episode 2 if fans didn't like him so much? I think not. I will admit there is something that's bothered me about ROTJ since I was a kid- the, er, uncomfortably "fey" or "gooey" performances of the main actors. Everything's touchy-touchy and soap opera-type emoting.
Honestly, until we got to the arena scene, "AotC" was driving me nuts. Let me see if I can sum up the movie for that first hour and some:
Sleep with me!
-We cannot do that.
Sleep with me!
-No!
My life sucks. Sleep with me!
-For the last time...
Sleep with me!
and so on.
That being said, once the action starts I was quite happy. Seeing a mass of jedi fighting droids and then Yoda totally opening a can of whup-ass rocked.
The problem here might be that, from what I can tell, Lucas has a problem with directing people. To sum it up: he cannot.
Andrew
You cannot direct that which cannot be directed
ErikJ wrote:
>
> You cannot direct that which cannot be directed
When someone has nearly complete creative control of something and it turns out badly, their ability to displace fault is seriously eroded.
Andrew
Andrew wrote:
>
> Honestly, until we got to the arena scene, "AotC" was
> driving me nuts. Let me see if I can sum up the movie for
> that first hour and some:
>
> Sleep with me!
> -We cannot do that.
> Sleep with me!
> -No!
> My life sucks. Sleep with me!
> -For the last time...
> Sleep with me!
> and so on.
>
>
I was wondering about this myself. Why exactly can't they get together? The "celibate" nature of the Jedis has never been explored or explained, at least in the movies. Nothing in the "Force" philosophy seems to point to it's necessity. So why? It seems to be there because the movie requires it to be there.
But I loved ATTACK OF THE CLONES. A lot. And there was really a lot more going on in the first hour then the romance plot.
Who knows, maybe Amidala finds the annihilation of an entire Tusken raider clan sexy.
If Jedis must be celibate how do they make new Jedis?
The same way they make Catholic Priests.
I saw AOTC yesterday and while I found it visually stunning somehow I felt Lucas was not the appropiate director for it. His filmaking is too static, the actors direction poor and the film is too long and granbdiloquent to my liking. However, it is a great improvement over The Phantom Menace and it gives many clues about the characters' future, so overall I enjoyed it.
Most of you have mentioned your favourite Star Wars movies. My least favourite of the original trilogy is precisely "Star Wars", and for the similar reasons. Really, George Lucas deserves kudos for creating all this, but his directing skills regarding action and adventure leave much to be desired. Let's hope he chooses another director next time, as he did with the original trilogy.
ONe thing to realize when watching the Anakin/Padme interaction in the subplot is to remember who Anakin is.
He's a teenager experiencing a 'first love', based on a child hood fascination or infatuation. Anyone in this condition, trying to come to grips with his emotions, is going to act akwardly, tossing back and forth with emotions and trying to be rational but not really wanting to be. If Anakin was potrayed as a thirty year old man or something, is actions would be pretty odd, but given his age and lack of experience, it wasn't really all that unbelievable
Especially considering the other side. He is a very powerful person, given his natural Force ability and Jedi training, and he knows it. He's cocky, and pretty much able to do whatever he wants in most situations, held only in check my Obi-Wan's guiding hand (barely). With this as his daily life, the resistance of Padme is something that he's not used to. When Obi-Wan tells him not to do something, he can get resentful and just think Obi-Wan is jeleous; that gives him an emotional release for his frustrations. When Padme tells him not to do something; his emotions won't let him be resentful of her, so he has no way of reconciling his feelings of something he wants but can't have.
The 'romance' scenes with Anakin were akward, but mostl because Anakin is the main focus and Anakin himself is in a very akward point in his life
I agree with a number of the posts here. I was somewhat dissappointed with AotC myself, largely because of stilted dialogue and bad directing. I did enjoy the battle at the end of the film (ironic that stormtroopers save the day). Unlike most people, I didn't care for the whoop-ass Yoda action scene. I laughed myself silly seeing this little green ninja-midget bounce off the walls (and I mean literally bouncing off the walls). The poor Count looked like the Orkin Man trying to step on a roach ("I'll cut you down to size ... oh, wait a minute..."). But the end of the scene was perfect (where he picks up his cane again, you know what I mean).
Still, I was perfectly fine with the Zen Yoda as he was in the first trilogy. Sure, he never got to boogey, but it was obvious that he was a bad-ass (no way an arrogant white-belt Jedi could lift an X-Wing out of a swamp). And I wish Jango-jingle-heimer Fett had a bigger role. His only purpose was to show where Boba came from, and to serve as a target when (spoiler!) Mace took his quickening. Wish they could have fleshed him out a little more. Wish they could have made the dialogue more believable. Wish Haydon wasn't so wooden. Wish Yoda would have opened his miniature can of whoop-ass on Jar Jar (everyone in the theater hissed when he first appeared). Wish Lucas spent as much time on scripting the plot as on working the special effects. Wish Natalie would have lost more clothing in that battle (did I type that or think that?). Wish, wish, wish, wish....
Now that I'm done whining, I'll probably go see it again. What can I say, it wasn't the greatest of films by any means, but it's still Star Wars.
At least thirty minutes were spent discussing his dislike of directing actors. Frankly he's a better producer/businessman than writer/director.
Andrew wrote:
>
> ErikJ wrote:
> >
> > You cannot direct that which cannot be directed
>
> When someone has nearly complete creative control of
> something and it turns out badly, their ability to displace
> fault is seriously eroded.
>
> Andrew
To give the man some credit, he does shoulder the blame for his failures, when he wants to admit to them that is.
how do they make little jedi's? asexual reproduction my friends, it's the wave of the future for lonely guys.
Midiclorians! The little buggers are there for a reason, and that could be it!
I noticed that the midichlorians were not mentioned in "AotC"
One conundrum the midichlorian explanation has planted in my mind: If you got a blood transfusion from a Jedi, would you then become attuned to The Force? I liked it much better when it was a spiritual, all-encompassing power, not a simple microorganism. Thanks for dulling the magic George.
Probably not because the midichlorians are in all living cells, not just blood.
Actually, The Force is still a power, it's just the midichlorians make us aware of it.
What bothered me more was talking about "the will of the Force" To have will one must have self awareness; ie...there must be a personality behind the force. This raises the Force from passive power source to potentially active agent. This makes the whole 'dark side' issue a bit more problematic.
In other words, Episodes IV through VI treated the Force as a rather simplistic Eastern pantheism. Episode I rearranges it as a sort of inconsistant deism The fact that it seems inconsistant, confusing, and not well thought through rather irritates me
If the 'Force' is a self-aware agent, then what was the deal with the Luke-in-the-cave-fighting-himself-as-Vader scene? (Was that in Empire?) If the Force is a pasive power source, it is defined as good or bad (dark) by the individual's choice of use for it. That internal struggle - being solely responsible for one's own 'goodness' or 'darkness' - makes for a much better (and to my view) more satisfying story - one with heroes. Making the Force and the Dark Side 'agents' puts all the responsibilty at one remove - away from the main characters, offstage somewhere, pulling the puppet strings....
I am not expressing this well. I apologise!
My point exactly.
As soon as you say the Force as 'will' (the purpose of midichlorians, according to Qui-gon, was to tell us the will of the Force), you open up a pandora's box of inconsitancies with the later episodes. "Will" implies intent and goals, with requires self-awareness and purpose. Personally, as a Christian, I really don't have a problem with that as a worldview. *However*, such a recasting of the Force from montheism for deism, possibly theism, really puts everything done by the characters in a different light that doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think that was an 'oops' in the writing from Phantom Menace that's now being downplayed and would probably be explained away as Qui-gon was really telling the whole story to a young Anakin
Personally, I don't think the "midichlorians" theory was a n"oooops" by George Lucas, but the best solution he could find to avoid polemics. Notice that if you take out the "midichlorians" theory it results that Annakin was born by a sort of divine conception. Probably lucas doesn't have any problem with this (remember: he wrote the whole thing in the 70's), but now we are in PC age, so he may have added as a last moment patch to avoid criticism from fundamentalist christians.
Actually, from someone who would probably be considered a "fundamentalist Christian" by many, the complaint I hear with the community is that the Force is "too new-agey" a concept to be comfortable. I don't think a nod to a 'divine conception' origin for Anakin would've really made it any worse.
I think the 'divine conception' angle again raises the same problems, with or without the midichlorians. It again raises the spectre that history is being guided by the unseen hand of the Force. Personally, I don't have a problem with that, but in the Star Wars universe, it contridicts things said by Obi-wan to Luke.
Adding the midichlorians just switches the agent from the Force, to the midichlorians
What I really think is that Lucas was borrowing from the "Power Of Myth" concepts as repeating mythologies from different cultures, especially with the 'savior born of divine means' and where it ends up is showing some fairly obvious differences between a montheistic viewpoint and a deistic viewpoint that are not really reconcibly.
I don't have a problem setting aside my own beliefs in taking a story on its own terms, but I wish it would stay a bit more consitant :)
Aside from the theological inconsistencies, I could buy the Force 'wanting' balance, just as gravity 'wants' us to fall down...but little bio-nanobots running the universe (as the 'motive force' - sorry!)...well...an all-pervasive, all-powerful hive-mind entity WOULD tend to add that missing element of SF to the story...
What came first? Was Lucas really conciously following Campbell's formula for his myth, or did the two of them discuss the parallels after the fact? Any story involving a hero is going to follow the familiar lines - that's the point of Campbell's work, isn't it? Campbell seemed genuinely tickled that Star Wars fit so well - and he did visit with Lucas at his ranch after the film came out...
It's interesting that most of us who watched genre movies and television as children had the same idea about the crap that was put into these movies and shows to supposedly appeal to us. I detested the Ewoks. I would have loved a planet full of primal Wookies ripping the stormtroopers to shreads instead of a bunch of stupid looking teddy bears.
I can remember as a child watching Superfriends and wondering why the hell they put in Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog and later Zan and Jayna. I didn't want to identify with these losers (Form of Water, indeed!). I found myself identifying with the guy in the blue tights that could move the planet.
Hollywood needs to learn that we didn't want lame kid sidekicks and stupid, silly animals. Chances are the kids today don't either.
I am all for Lucas handing over the reins for the last three films so long as it is to someone in the calibur of Irvin Kershner and not Richard Marquand. We need more of the films to be like Empire and less like Muppets in Spac .. er .. RotJ.
-Neo-