Whatever happened with brexit? I don't want to hear the American media filtered version I'd lime to hear from. A real life Britt if there are any here.
What's Brexit?
In New Jersey nightclubs it's the way men leave clubs and it comes from "Bro" and "Exit" so "Brexit."
Great Britain voted to leave the European Union, hence Brexit. (Britain + Exit)
It's currently being handled very badly as we have a wishy washy Prime Minister who is politically in a very weak position and is very much at the mercy of her party who keep threatening to kick her out if she doesn't do what they say. She doesn't have the strength of personality (like Maggie Thatcher did) to force her own way through and has to balance the demands of both the pro leave and pro remain sides of her party, something she has not done very well.
Every time she tries to do something it seems to end up a disaster, from the stage falling apart as she gave a keynote speech, the snap election that she called when she was riding high in the popularity polls, only for her ratings to plunge and her barely hold onto power. She tried reorganising her Ministers only for them to refuse to take the new posts. I heard two guys talking about how someone had messed something up and they described it by saying "Wow, he really Teresa May'd that one up." There are many, many more disasters that she has been front and centre of.
All in all, we are lurching from mini crisis to mini crisis and not looking very clever right now. The only reason I am not looking at applying for American citizenship via my wife is that we are not sure Trump is any better.
I hear Canada is nice this time of year though. On the plus side, we have managed to get the talks onto the stage where people are now talking about trade deals, although to do this we had to promise to hand over many billions (which admittedly were to fulfill treaties we had signed up to and therefore we should live up to our obligations on).
Britain was not in a good place before we joined the EU and our standard of living has improved since we did (Germany and France were way ahead of us pre joining) and I have some real fears that we'll go back to how we were back then as I don't believe that any political party in the UK is competant enough to get us a good deal.
So I take it that leaving the EU is a bad thing? I'm ashamed to say I know very little of European politics pre- 1945. :bluesad:
the 'brexit' vote was a referendum. referendum results are not legally binding, therefore the government can ignore the result if they want.
or alternatively they can turn the whole issue into a massive media flurry of total confusion lasting a couple of years, then proceed to do exactly what they were going to do anyway, with the added bonus of making the british public feel like their opinion/vote was actually considered and listened to. lol
That RC depends on your point of view. It would be like one of the states deciding to leave the union I guess. The UK has liked being in the EU, but hasn't really liked all the federal powers bit. The leave campaign basically ran on a platform of if we leave we can cut down immigration to the UK and control our borders (which we won't be able to. For a start we need to import people to do all the jobs we have in the UK, especially the ones that native people do not want to do themselves). They also think because we are not paying huge amounts of money into the EU we will have more money to spend in the UK. This is sort of true, but because imports will be more expensive, we will not be able to get as much for our money.
A lot of the issues that were voted on to be honest people aren't well educated enough to have made an informed choice on. The go / stay vote was very close something like 51/49 and demogogues like that rubber faced goon Nigel Farage played on that, so now we are leaving.
As you may have guessed I view it as being a bad thing (although I knew before the vote was counted that it would go in favour of leaving and had Kristi transfer all our savings into dollars so I made a bit of money there when the pound crashed). I could be wrong and maybe Britain will do fantastically as a free agent. I just have my doubts.
I am keeping my options open at have been reading up on how to claim asylum in far off lands.
Just as a point of interest, Scotland itself voted pretty overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, something like 64% if I recall correctly, but since England has 10 times the population we do, we get dragged along with their decision.
I can say the EU has been an extremely mixed "blessing" for Ireland, but while I hear people complaining about it, a similar vote to break from the EU would not come close to gaining majority support. One side effect has been to create Little Warsaws in the cities, where Polish people, who flooded in during the boom, have come and set up residence. Lacking any sense of national guilt the Irish have no issue with calling Poles nasty names and using Celtic coercion to keep them in their neighborhoods, somehow missing the irony that so many Irish songs are about just such things happening to them. I look for tensions to explode. Again.
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 29, 2018, 06:12:17 PM
That RC depends on your point of view. It would be like one of the states deciding to leave the union I guess.
Not quite, because there were agreements in place that allowed countries to leave the EU. But the economic and administrative chaos would be similar.
"-we leave we can cut down immigration to the UK and control our borders (which we won't be able to. For a start we need to import people to do all the jobs we have in the UK, especially the ones that native people do not want to do themselves."
THIS is exactly the reason the U.S. needs Mexicans. Some folks think that the locals would pick up those jobs- I live in an area where the majority of agricultural work is done by migrant Mexicans. And I can tell you this- white folks around here won't do it. Even the P.W.T. won't-they prefer welfare and food stamps. The Mexicans will have entire families working from dusk till dawn picking pickles or working in canneries.
I was an exception. I never finished High School-so good jobs weren't an option. So I busted my ass first in the fields and then in the canneries. When I had my heart surgery and quit Honee Bear I had been there 30 years. I was making $11.75 an hour.
It's a a double edged sword: If they follow through with it they will have economic disadvantages, if they don't, then the EU and the elite class become an overt despot who can never again claim to have any connection to the population at large.
what they should have done was negotiate it quickly, let the Brexiters stew in their juices and if it didn't work out have another vote.
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 29, 2018, 02:25:34 PM
It's currently being handled very badly as we have a wishy washy Prime Minister who is politically in a very weak position and is very much at the mercy of her party who keep threatening to kick her out if she doesn't do what they say. She doesn't have the strength of personality (like Maggie Thatcher did) to force her own way through and has to balance the demands of both the pro leave and pro remain sides of her party, something she has not done very well.
Every time she tries to do something it seems to end up a disaster, from the stage falling apart as she gave a keynote speech, the snap election that she called when she was riding high in the popularity polls, only for her ratings to plunge and her barely hold onto power. She tried reorganising her Ministers only for them to refuse to take the new posts. I heard two guys talking about how someone had messed something up and they described it by saying "Wow, he really Teresa May'd that one up." There are many, many more disasters that she has been front and centre of.
All in all, we are lurching from mini crisis to mini crisis and not looking very clever right now. The only reason I am not looking at applying for American citizenship via my wife is that we are not sure Trump is any better.
I hear Canada is nice this time of year though. On the plus side, we have managed to get the talks onto the stage where people are now talking about trade deals, although to do this we had to promise to hand over many billions (which admittedly were to fulfill treaties we had signed up to and therefore we should live up to our obligations on).
Britain was not in a good place before we joined the EU and our standard of living has improved since we did (Germany and France were way ahead of us pre joining) and I have some real fears that we'll go back to how we were back then as I don't believe that any political party in the UK is competant enough to get us a good deal.
Ok thanks for answering. As to a point you raised, I can tell you your government can't be as horrible as what we have in 'murca right now so for ghawd's sake stay over there. If you have to emigrate move to France. I'd probably move there if I could. I couldn't move to England because that hereditary monarch thing is just not for me.
I wonder what the big drive for brexit was? In 'murca we've been told it was because England didn't want more Muslim immigrants. Is that true?
Oh, could I ask you something? You mentioned Thatcher. I heard a rumor that when the undertakers were digging her grave they were surprised to meet a gang of demons digging their way up from hell to recieve her. Any truth to that?
One caveat, if you're Jewish, DON'T go to France right now.
I can promise where ever I was to settle it would not be France.
Damn cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Muslim immigration was a part of the vote, although they are no where near as big a think as is made out (claims were made by the leave side that muslims made up 40% of the UK population, I think the truth is closer to 5%. However in general immigration was a big part of it and the whole freedom of movement within the EU. I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but any EU citizen can just move to any other EU country and settle there. Me, I think thats a wonderful thing if you like to travel and take part in new countries. But it brings back the whole stealing jobs thing, even though in many cases they are doing jobs other people won't touch). The biggest area of immigration we have seen is from Poland. Most towns and cities now have specialist Polish shops in them selling food with names I couldn't even begin to pronounce.
I don't have a problem with it for myself. If someone want's to come here and work hard for a living I am good with it. It's the lazy buggers who can spend their entire lives without getting a job and just living on benefits that p**ses me off. Hell in a couple of months I am going to have to pay over £2000 (close on $3000) for the next visa for my American wife to stay in the country. I am all for free movement right now lol.
As for Thatcher... well the week she died a song from The Wizard Of Oz hit number one in the charts... Hey Ho The Witch Is Dead (true story that). I am pretty sure that she had no doubt organised a corporate takeover of hell, sold off shares in it to a bunch of shady buisnessmen and that Satan has had to take up busking to try and keep his family fed.
In all fairness to her she did do some things that were badly needed. I can remember the 70's a little and the UK was not in a good place and Thatcher had something to do with turning that around. The unions had gotten too powerful and were running our industry into the ground. However like anything balance is required and I think she went too far in reducing their rights.
She is not someone I am a fan of though and I'd happily dance a jig on her grave.
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 29, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
Ok thanks for answering. As to a point you raised, I can tell you your government can't be as horrible as what we have in 'murca right now so for ghawd's sake stay over there. If you have to emigrate move to France. I'd probably move there if I could. I couldn't move to England because that hereditary monarch thing is just not for me.
I wonder what the big drive for brexit was? In 'murca we've been told it was because England didn't want more Muslim immigrants. Is that true?
Oh, could I ask you something? You mentioned Thatcher. I heard a rumor that when the undertakers were digging her grave they were surprised to meet a gang of demons digging their way up from hell to recieve her. Any truth to that?
A quick note about the Queen. No idea how widely this is known or not but they have very little to do with day to day normal life or running the country. They are more just a tradition. Although technically the reigning monarch does have quite a lot of power (the queen has to invite whoever wins the election to form a government, each bill needs royal assent before it can become law and only the monarch can declare war) it does not get used and is easily bypassed on a lot of things. For example Iraq, Afganistan, Falkland Isles and so on might have all been wars, but not once was a state of war formally declared. The last time Royal Assent was refused on a new law was in Queen Victoria's day. She refused to sign a bill outlawing lesbianism* because she didn't believe such a thing existed.
Overall I am pretty neutral on the whole Royal family thing.
*Or did she have another reason for refusing to outlaw it that was less publizied I wonder?
As a fellow Brit I can say Dark Alex has hit it pretty much on the head here. it's all a bit of a sorry state of affairs truth be told. We currently have a government lead by a leader who only got in on a slither of a vote with no firm control over the country trying to do an impossible balancing act between two halves of her party, both of which are split over a binary decision. both also hold just short of enough power to kick her out of the position (Because they can do that)...So unless both halves decide that Theresa May is completely useless and work out some kind of agreement to get a couple more people onside to force a "Vote of no confidence" (Effectively a sort of impeachment) the whole government is at stalemate. with both side vying for the others blood and the PM caught in the middle basically being dragged along by the carnage that's come from Brexit...
this however has also created a couple more problems for the conservative party too in and of itself. The first being that the longer Theresa May stays in power the more her partys polling position tanks. as it stands literally the only people still voting for them are the people who wanted to leave Europe so badly they'd sell there own family and the ultra rich who stand to get richer...the party's currently polling at it's lowest since records began in every demographic apart from the over 65's...I read a report a short while ago that stated that there poll position is dropping on average approximately 1.4% a year just due to there voter base dying off (Thats not including the other disasters they've done that have turned voters off)
The other issue facing them at the minute is a power vaccume. below Theresa May the crop of potential leaders to replace her is actually somehow worse...with the two most likely candidates for the job being Boris Johnson (Think Donald Trump but with the ability to fein ignorance) and Jacob reese mogg; a nasty piece of work who makes Margret thatcher look like a liberal. if either of them get there hands anywhere near number 10 god only knows what will happen. all the other contenders are either people who've tried before and have a shocking track record (Ian Duncan Smith is a good example...literally satan incarnate) or people who are so woefully underqualified for the position you'd be better off just grabbing someone off the street.
But I digress; The current government has a lot of problems which means it will probably implode at some point in the next 6-18 months without a serious change of management. As a result theres a feeling that Brexit isnt going to be as hard and harsh as possible (Though it will still be one of the single most damaging things done to the country within most peoples living memory) The general attitude I get from people I know is that of Hypernormalisation. the idea that we all know its going to be absolutely disasterous but theres almost noone out there who's offering a credible alternative. so rather than stand up and call this what it is. "Self mutilation on a national scale" we instead take our caps in our hands and just say "Oh dear" and hope that it goes away...
On a local level I can say that the effects of Brexit havent been too harsh at the current time...food and petrol prices have gone up by a couple of pound which has left me a bit poorer (Im on minimum wage for the most part) and theres been a sharp rise in crime and homelessness...but they've been issues that have been growing for the last 8 years or so...its all become a bit of a perfect storm...it'll be next year now before we see anything serious effect the country...when brexit actually kicks in thats when it'll bite.
I should also say for anyone wondering "So is anyone in England still fighting for Brexit to be reversed?" well...not really. I'll offer here a quick rundown of the opposition parties and where they stand:
Labour: As the main opposition of the government they gave the conservatives a pasting in the general elections last year resulting in the current government gridlock. they are in favour of a softer brexit where we remain in the single market. but the current leader of the labour party is a socialist who believes in full renationalisation of public utilities and rail (Something I agree with) however he's concerned that Europe would get in the way of his plans for this renationalisation so they're promising to leave but effectively be remain a member of europe in all but name and the ability to vote. I disagree with there stance. I think they're personally overstating Europes power in all this. But as I agree with them on most of there other points not related to brexit I have to sort of Begrudgingly go along with it and point out that this is one of the few things I disagree with them about to anyone who asks which party I support. For the most part Labour's been having fun with the current Conservative crisis purposfully gumming up the system as much as possible and constantly setting member of the conservative party on themselves. they're also gearing up for a possible general election in the next couple of years depending on whether the conservatives implode soon.
Lib Dems: these are often seen as the middle ground in UK politics. though in practice they tend to come across as a bit wishy washy. barring the SNP they're the only party in england seriously running on a "Remain" platform. from what members of there party I've spoken to; they treat anyone who isnt in the Lib dems as fascist nazis. largely because of brexit. it's really weird. I can have a lovely conversation with someone. Mention I support the Labour party and then instantly the tone changes. and it doesnt matter what policies I support or how many times I tell them I dont support Labour on there brexit stance it's like pavlovian conditioning they just snap into "YOUR A FASCIST YOU WANT TO DESTROY THE COUNTRY AND BAN IMMIGRANTS YOU RACIST!!!" so by and large I've left them to it. they hold a very small minority though occasionally they can be the tipping point as to whether legislation gets passed or not...so yeh. at this point they pretty much just go around picking on labour and conservative members. though if push comes to shove they often side with the conservatives...
SNP: The Scottish National Party. I cant say im totally aware of there policies or standing in scotland, I only really know about them in depth based on what I see in the news or the papers. Despite a few people I know rather cruelly billing them "Tartan Tories" what I've heard of them doesnt really offend me...if anything they sound okay from what policies I've heard...(For reference I was in favour of Scottish independence and I still think they should have a say on whether they stay or leave europe independent from the UK vote) ultimately they've been dragged into a fight they wanted no part in and have pretty much from Day 1 said they are fighting against us leaving europe at all costs...its a developing situation that can get a bit funny really...
UKIP: The party that effectively tipped the balance of the vote in favour of leaving this far right party's pretty much only defining feature is it's the party for the closeted racists of the conservative party. they've pretty much disintigrated since the brexit vote. the party was formed with the sole purpose of leaving Europe and now we're doing that there isnt a whole lot of function for them (Apart from...y'know closeting racists) in the last 18 months they've gone through 5 leaders, lost all there seats on the european parliament and soon they'll lose all there local council seats as well, there party income is now less than 38 thousand pounds (All together) and dropping like a stone. Add to that a recent scandle thats caused all there senior members to resign and I'll be VERY surprised if Ukip are fighting a general election in the next 2-3 years...
Green party: a far left party thats slowly been growing in momentum. it was formed largely with the environment in mind but has since become a stable mate of the Labour party. during the EU referendum they stood on a remain platform and since then there opinions have pretty much stayed the same. they largely vote with labour and while they vote against them typically on any brexit matters in the house they're largely in favour of progressive and positive ideological endevours. they're also normally the "Other" party I vote for when Labour gets a bit too centrist for my liking. (Hasnt happened in a while mind)
I would talk about Plaid Cymru; the welsh political party. but I know even less about them than I do the SNP...as far as Im aware they stand on a "Remain" platform and I've never heard anything about there policies that I've actively disliked...so...meh...
its odd really...considering 48% of the british public voted to remain and recent polling and studies have shown that number now to be closer to 60% you'd think one of the major parties would seriously float the idea of staying. we have until March 2019 to fully reverse all this...but a total deadlock coupled with the fact MP's are currently living in fear that Right wing extremists will try and firebomb there houses has pretty much paralysed the conversation. its shocking really to think that this kind of massive blind spot exists in UK politics. but theres very little we can do about it now sadly...
I totally agree about Boris and Jacob, although if I had to pick one it would have to be Boris. Jacob Reese Mogg is the kind of guy who loudly proclaims his christian values but would take the time to spit on a homeless man as he passed him in the street. He is more old testament style, with a large helping of hypocrisy. Somewhere behind Boris's buffoonary is a fairly intelligent guy although he n
The SNP are currently running Scotland, and to my mind not doing a bad job of it. They are a centre left party, so more in common with Labour than the Conservatives (for our American friends Democrats would be roughly the equivlent of Labour and the Republicans are most definitely closely related to the Tories).
Up until two elections ago I was a solid Labour voter, but I became a bit disenchanted with them and switched to the SNP. I did consider switching back to Labour at the last election, but since the SNP seemed to be doing a decent job I decided in the end to stick with them.
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 01:38:48 AM
Most towns and cities now have specialist Polish shops in them selling food with names I couldn't even begin to pronounce.
Mouth is for eating good food, not for pronouncing it's name properly. Get some Pierogi for me.
Quote from: dean on January 30, 2018, 08:00:41 AM
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 01:38:48 AM
Most towns and cities now have specialist Polish shops in them selling food with names I couldn't even begin to pronounce.
Mouth is for eating good food, not for pronouncing it's name properly. Get some Pierogi for me.
I'll take a big plate of galumpkis! My Grandma on my step-mother's side made the best!
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 07:36:02 AM
I totally agree about Boris and Jacob, although if I had to pick one it would have to be Boris. Jacob Reese Mogg is the kind of guy who loudly proclaims his christian values but would take the time to spit on a homeless man as he passed him in the street. He is more old testament style, with a large helping of hypocrisy. Somewhere behind Boris's buffoonary is a fairly intelligent guy although he n
Oh I agree! of the pair Boris would be infinately better than Mogg to my liberal lefty values xD I think Mogg could actually finally bring the country to its knees. Boris plays the fool but as you say he's a much smarter man than a lot give him credit...I think he'd probably contunue the tory death rattle...but it'd be considerably slower paced than any of the other contenders in the running...
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 07:36:02 AM
The SNP are currently running Scotland, and to my mind not doing a bad job of it. They are a centre left party, so more in common with Labour than the Conservatives (for our American friends Democrats would be roughly the equivlent of Labour and the Republicans are most definitely closely related to the Tories).
Up until two elections ago I was a solid Labour voter, but I became a bit disenchanted with them and switched to the SNP. I did consider switching back to Labour at the last election, but since the SNP seemed to be doing a decent job I decided in the end to stick with them.
Again that seems perfectly reasonable I'd say :) in all fairness if I lived in Scotland I'd probably flit between the SNP and the Greens...Scottish Labour have never quite sat right with me im sad to say...its always been a bit of a case of "The wrong place at the wrong time" in terms of leadership and party direction...as for labour as a whole; well...I wasnt a massive fan of Blair; but I thought Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband were both very underrated. Corbyns probably the closest to my own ideology that there'll ever be in a serious position to become PM but I do have reservations on a couple of his beliefs. I do think (Barring a major overhaul of the conservative party) that if an elections called in the next 12 to 18 months theres a very real chance Labour could get back into power (I'd book the day off work and spend the rest of the day drinking heavily and organising a street party) xD
Quote from: zombie #1 on January 29, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
the 'brexit' vote was a referendum. referendum results are not legally binding, therefore the government can ignore the result if they want.
or alternatively they can turn the whole issue into a massive media flurry of total confusion lasting a couple of years, then proceed to do exactly what they were going to do anyway, with the added bonus of making the british public feel like their opinion/vote was actually considered and listened to. lol
Just curious, can the people in England vote in a way that would. Force the government to follow its wishes?
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 02:02:33 AM
As for Thatcher... well the week she died a song from The Wizard Of Oz hit number one in the charts... Hey Ho The Witch Is Dead (true story that). I am pretty sure that she had no doubt organised a corporate takeover of hell, sold off shares in it to a bunch of shady buisnessmen and that Satan has had to take up busking to try and keep his family fed.
In all fairness to her she did do some things that were badly needed. I can remember the 70's a little and the UK was not in a good place and Thatcher had something to do with turning that around. The unions had gotten too powerful and were running our industry into the ground. However like anything balance is required and I think she went too far in reducing their rights.
She is not someone I am a fan of though and I'd happily dance a jig on her grave.
OK thanks. I asked because I heard that rumor and know of a similar indicdent happening in America.
During Nancy Reagan's funeral the preacher was prattling on at the graveside for quite a while. Suddenly there was a violent ground tremor and a cloud a fire burst up from the open grave.
A huge demonic entity climbed up from the flames and while people at the funeral were still stunned in shock and horror it ripped the lid off the coffin, grabbed the body of the 40th president of the untied states, slung it over his shoulder and leaped back into the flaming grave. The ground rumbled a moment later and when people dared look into it the bottom of the grave was filled with rough dirt apparently shoved up from below.
So in wondered if something similar had happened at Thatcher's funeral.
QuoteOne caveat, if you're Jewish, DON'T go to France right now.
This is the heart of whats wrong with the EU. If you were an out and out terrorist why wouldn't you go to France? not only can you get citizenship and free stuff you can have access to any other EU country. and you can keep rejecting modern society like you did at home and people are too polite to talk about it.
There's always someone in the US saying well you have a better chance of being hit by a meteor than being in a terrorost attack. I have problems with that logic (a meteor isn't TRYING to hit you, to borrow a point from NN taleb) but France seems to have them constantly.
Also, the "elites" of the remain movement are a special kind of obnoxious, from my limited experience with them on twitter. our elites can't hold a candle to these jerks
France's problem is actually Belgium. The guns there are very loose and terrorists have been able to pick up high powered weaponry and then pop over the border, although from what I understand Belgium has tightened up it's laws, or starting enforcing the ones it has just now, hence the switch to other forms of attack.
The reason we've not had a gun attack in the UK (so far) seems to come down to the people who sell illegal arms not wanting the kind of heat they'd get if the sold weapons to extremists and then they were used in a terrorist attack. However I expect that to be a matter of when, rather than if one happens alas.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on January 30, 2018, 11:24:36 AM
QuoteOne caveat, if you're Jewish, DON'T go to France right now.
This is the heart of whats wrong with the EU. If you were an out and out terrorist why wouldn't you go to France? not only can you get citizenship and free stuff you can have access to any other EU country. and you can keep rejecting modern society like you did at home and people are too polite to talk about it.
There's always someone in the US saying well you have a better chance of being hit by a meteor than being in a terrorost attack. I have problems with that logic (a meteor isn't TRYING to hit you, to borrow a point from NN taleb) but France seems to have them constantly.
Also, the "elites" of the remain movement are a special kind of obnoxious, from my limited experience with them on twitter. our elites can't hold a candle to these jerks
In the countryside France is still....France, especially in the hicksville southeast where we stayed years ago, (it even had twanging accents, one TV station, and the only water came on a delivery truck for your cistern), but the cities are very different and there are parts of Paris that might as well be Algeria. There are places you are strongly cautioned not to go, it's even on official street signs, and those are Islamic enclaves.
We ate at an Algerian restaurant in Paris and the restaurateur and his wife and children simply could not have been nicer or more welcoming people, much warmer than most of the French restaurant owners, truth be told, but when we talked a little deeper he same out and said, "It is not safe for you to go into many of the
banlieues."
I am disheartened about how Jewish people in France now are being terrorized as they haven't been in Europe since the age of Nazism. It seems like the only people reporting on this, beyond Jewish media outlets, are the evangelical Christian networks like CBN and TBN, and often they're not taken seriously. It's truly at crisis levels right now and Jews are leaving France in record numbers.
Setting aside the fact western civilization is at war with it, my problem with Islam is not in its religious aspects, it is with its social ones, the mandate to replace all other forms of government with
sharia, and that is why Moslems cannot be faithful to their religion and still lead a secular western democracy, since in the United States, a President takes an oath to support and defend a Constitution that guarantees freedom of religion for all, and yet Mohammad's dictates instruct Moslems to replace all other governments with
sharia in the quest to found the worldwide caliphate. The choice becomes failing in their Moslem faith or failing in a hypothetical oath to support and defend a document that enshrines free religion. India's first Moslem President, Zakir Husain, spoke openly about the pressure he felt in leading a democracy that guaranteed "peaceful exercise of religion for all" with the encouragement of those within his religion who wanted him to promote Islamic interests.
Moslems are ultimately stuck with the decision, do I do what my god instructs me to do, or what the laws of my nation tell me I should do? We see what choice many Turks are making these days undoing Atakturk's good work a century back.
Honestly, I'd prefer not to have a large Moslem population in my area. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Pagan, Rasta, Pasta, Jewish, Holy Roller, whatever, but I don't think Islam is like other religions.
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 30, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 02:02:33 AM
As for Thatcher... well the week she died a song from The Wizard Of Oz hit number one in the charts... Hey Ho The Witch Is Dead (true story that). I am pretty sure that she had no doubt organised a corporate takeover of hell, sold off shares in it to a bunch of shady buisnessmen and that Satan has had to take up busking to try and keep his family fed.
In all fairness to her she did do some things that were badly needed. I can remember the 70's a little and the UK was not in a good place and Thatcher had something to do with turning that around. The unions had gotten too powerful and were running our industry into the ground. However like anything balance is required and I think she went too far in reducing their rights.
She is not someone I am a fan of though and I'd happily dance a jig on her grave.
OK thanks. I asked because I heard that rumor and know of a similar indicdent happening in America.
During Nancy Reagan's funeral the preacher was prattling on at the graveside for quite a while. Suddenly there was a violent ground tremor and a cloud a fire burst up from the open grave.
A huge demonic entity climbed up from the flames and while people at the funeral were still stunned in shock and horror it ripped the lid off the coffin, grabbed the body of the 40th president of the untied states, slung it over his shoulder and leaped back into the flaming grave. The ground rumbled a moment later and when people dared look into it the bottom of the grave was filled with rough dirt apparently shoved up from below.
So in wondered if something similar had happened at Thatcher's funeral.
First of all, how could the devil snatch President Reagan's body at NANCY Reagan's funeral?
Secondly, what exactly is it about opposing the bloodthirsty evil that was Soviet Communism and bringing the Iron Curtain crashing down that makes one worthy of eternal damnation?
Having opinions is fine, but obnoxiously expressing them in a hateful manner at every single turn is tiresome.
ER- Most Muslims I've come across even the smart ones have really bad ideas on economics and male/ female relations. it certainly is the main reason their countries are basically catapaults that send them elsewhere across the world. Don't get me started on how our presence there exacerbates this.
In Boston we had the marathon bombing and it was interesting as a case study. the stupidest idiot in the family, the older brother, lost his big shot at being a boxing champ because he beat his girlfriend. His life went into a spiral and he got into radical Islam. instead of slapping him in the face and saying get a clue stupid tamerlan (which is actually a kind of cool name) they joined in, thinking he had some sort of clue. How dysfunctional and stupid can you get? Now, the Mom and Dad are back in Dagestan were they have 1/100 the opportunities they had here, Tamerlan is dead and Jahar is in jail forever. way to go!
Quote from: indianasmith on January 30, 2018, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 30, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 02:02:33 AM
As for Thatcher... well the week she died a song from The Wizard Of Oz hit number one in the charts... Hey Ho The Witch Is Dead (true story that). I am pretty sure that she had no doubt organised a corporate takeover of hell, sold off shares in it to a bunch of shady buisnessmen and that Satan has had to take up busking to try and keep his family fed.
In all fairness to her she did do some things that were badly needed. I can remember the 70's a little and the UK was not in a good place and Thatcher had something to do with turning that around. The unions had gotten too powerful and were running our industry into the ground. However like anything balance is required and I think she went too far in reducing their rights.
She is not someone I am a fan of though and I'd happily dance a jig on her grave.
OK thanks. I asked because I heard that rumor and know of a similar indicdent happening in America.
During Nancy Reagan's funeral the preacher was prattling on at the graveside for quite a while. Suddenly there was a violent ground tremor and a cloud a fire burst up from the open grave.
A huge demonic entity climbed up from the flames and while people at the funeral were still stunned in shock and horror it ripped the lid off the coffin, grabbed the body of the 40th president of the untied states, slung it over his shoulder and leaped back into the flaming grave. The ground rumbled a moment later and when people dared look into it the bottom of the grave was filled with rough dirt apparently shoved up from below.
So in wondered if something similar had happened at Thatcher's funeral.
First of all, how could the devil snatch President Reagan's body at NANCY Reagan's funeral?
Secondly, what exactly is it about opposing the bloodthirsty evil that was Soviet Communism and bringing the Iron Curtain crashing down that makes one worthy of eternal damnation?
Having opinions is fine, but obnoxiously expressing them in a hateful manner at every single turn is tiresome.
Nancy Reagan was the 40th US president. Ronny was her puppet.
Also I seem to recall. 8 years of clkinton hating, 8 years of Obama hating and about 35 years of Democrat hating from The right. What goes around...
Um, OK. Let me ask this very gently and politely so as not to be accused of anything completely unfounded. Would it be reasonable to suggest that extreme Islam might be part of the real problem that may have lead to the brexit vote?
Now before some fool accuses me of being a racist for suggesting radical islam might cause some problems note that Islam is not a race but an ideology. Also I don't like radical Christianity either.
I'm starting to get the idea that something like this is happening:
1. Countries dominated by Islam forbid birth control and contraception in any form.
2. Countries dominated by Islam do not allow women to choose not to become pregnant if the husband wants her to.
3. As a result countries dominated by islam have higber population growth which leads to lower standards of living and opportunity than other countries.
4. People seek to immigrate from Islamic dominated countries to ones with higher standards of living and better opportunities.
5. Rather contradictory to common sense they try to bring with them the same beliefs, customs, social values, etc, that lead to the conditions in their native countries that made them want to flee it to the countries they flee to.
6. The native populations of these countries do not want these values and customs imposed on them. Hence, resentment, hostility, conflict.
Have I got a grip on the situation? Am I close? Is there anything wrong with my view?
While Islamic radicals may have had something to do with the vote I would suggest it was more to do with immigration from inside Europe to the UK which was causing the issue. That being said, I did spend the final few months before the vote guarding some island in the south atlantic. People who from a commonwealth country (former British Empire) can serve in the UK military. Here is something from my diary I think it was a week after the referendum...
QuoteFeeling fairly sickened about what's happening back in the UK following the referendum. That my wife has had to cancel a trip down south (to England) because of people's racism totally disgusts me. I mean do the people who voted for leaving hear this stuff on the news and think "Hey, that's what I voted for" and feel really proud of themselves or something? Argh.
Day 77: In a couple of weeks I'll be half way through my tour. Most of the guys here track the days they have left until they are going back home. Me, I count the days until I am out of the airforce (2561). There are a huge numner of people from loads of different countries down here, mostly army guys. I keep thinking if we kick them all out who the hell is going to replace them? I mean how many people who want to cut immigration will actually be prepared to get up off their arses amd actually defend our country the way these guys are. Every time I see someone from a different background I feel like apologising to them for what's going on and thinking "Wow, they are out here doing this job and back home their families are getting crap and being told to "f**k off back home". Thats one of the problems with votes. Other people have to live with the consequences of how you use yours.
For those who don't know my wife is an American citizen and in England there were reports of racist attacks against them in the weeks following the referendum, as well as any other kind of immigrants.
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 31, 2018, 05:14:26 AM
Quote from: indianasmith on January 30, 2018, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 30, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 30, 2018, 02:02:33 AM
As for Thatcher... well the week she died a song from The Wizard Of Oz hit number one in the charts... Hey Ho The Witch Is Dead (true story that). I am pretty sure that she had no doubt organised a corporate takeover of hell, sold off shares in it to a bunch of shady buisnessmen and that Satan has had to take up busking to try and keep his family fed.
In all fairness to her she did do some things that were badly needed. I can remember the 70's a little and the UK was not in a good place and Thatcher had something to do with turning that around. The unions had gotten too powerful and were running our industry into the ground. However like anything balance is required and I think she went too far in reducing their rights.
She is not someone I am a fan of though and I'd happily dance a jig on her grave.
OK thanks. I asked because I heard that rumor and know of a similar indicdent happening in America.
During Nancy Reagan's funeral the preacher was prattling on at the graveside for quite a while. Suddenly there was a violent ground tremor and a cloud a fire burst up from the open grave.
A huge demonic entity climbed up from the flames and while people at the funeral were still stunned in shock and horror it ripped the lid off the coffin, grabbed the body of the 40th president of the untied states, slung it over his shoulder and leaped back into the flaming grave. The ground rumbled a moment later and when people dared look into it the bottom of the grave was filled with rough dirt apparently shoved up from below.
So in wondered if something similar had happened at Thatcher's funeral.
First of all, how could the devil snatch President Reagan's body at NANCY Reagan's funeral?
Secondly, what exactly is it about opposing the bloodthirsty evil that was Soviet Communism and bringing the Iron Curtain crashing down that makes one worthy of eternal damnation?
Having opinions is fine, but obnoxiously expressing them in a hateful manner at every single turn is tiresome.
Nancy Reagan was the 40th US president. Ronny was her puppet.
Also I seem to recall. 8 years of clkinton hating, 8 years of Obama hating and about 35 years of Democrat hating from The right. What goes around...
Hate for hate, is that your solution? Then how do we ever improve anything?
Seriously, I personally found Bill Clinton to be a loathsome person but an effective President and a brilliant politician.
To the best of my knowledge, Obama was a straight arrow in his personal life, although I had profound policy differences with him. I did find the ugly, racist attacks on his wife and daughters appalling. We should be able to disagree without being MEAN - a trick which sadly, many Americans today never master.
Let me ask you something - were you even alive when Reagan was President?
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 30, 2018, 10:47:03 AM
Quote from: zombie #1 on January 29, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
the 'brexit' vote was a referendum. referendum results are not legally binding, therefore the government can ignore the result if they want.
or alternatively they can turn the whole issue into a massive media flurry of total confusion lasting a couple of years, then proceed to do exactly what they were going to do anyway, with the added bonus of making the british public feel like their opinion/vote was actually considered and listened to. lol
Just curious, can the people in England vote in a way that would. Force the government to follow its wishes?
don't think so, maybe Alex knows for sure? I can't remember any instance of this happening in my lifetime anyway...
svengoolie - someone made a point the other day that I have no idea is true: does the fact that Islam allows for 4 wives per husband mean 3 guys have nothign to do, essentially? it would explain the surplus of fighting age males
Quote from: zombie #1 on January 31, 2018, 09:44:43 AM
Quote from: Svengoolie 3 on January 30, 2018, 10:47:03 AM
Quote from: zombie #1 on January 29, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
the 'brexit' vote was a referendum. referendum results are not legally binding, therefore the government can ignore the result if they want.
or alternatively they can turn the whole issue into a massive media flurry of total confusion lasting a couple of years, then proceed to do exactly what they were going to do anyway, with the added bonus of making the british public feel like their opinion/vote was actually considered and listened to. lol
Just curious, can the people in England vote in a way that would. Force the government to follow its wishes?
don't think so, maybe Alex knows for sure? I can't remember any instance of this happening in my lifetime anyway...
In the last decade or so something was brought in for petitions. If you can present one with X number of signatures then various things have to happen based on how many signatures you get. The highest level of this means the matter has to be debated in parliment. That doesn't mean they have to do about it, just they will talk about it.
For referendums, they have a pass a law authorising each one to take place and my understanding is that the result is then legally binding, depending on how the law has been written.
Just to sort out one thing though, England is one part of the United Kingdom which covers Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland too, rather than being the whole country.
EDIT. One other thing I do remember about the Brexit vote was that the SNP tried to get the vote modified so that each individual country of the UK would have to vote for Brexit in order for it to take place, but the then Prime Minister David Cameron managed to stop that from happening. Which is a bit ironic, because if he had put it in, the vote as it stood would have been 50/50 and his political career wouldn't have ended in a humiliating defeat.
Quote from: Dark Alex on January 31, 2018, 12:59:44 PM
In the last decade or so something was brought in for petitions. If you can present one with X number of signatures then various things have to happen based on how many signatures you get. The highest level of this means the matter has to be debated in parliment. That doesn't mean they have to do about it, just they will talk about it.
yeah I think enough e-signatures on change.org petitions (for example) can ensure it's handed to the PM for consideration...still not mandatory for them to do anything as a result though.
there was a recent one where nearly 300,000 people signed in just 48 hours to have Toby Young fired as university regulator. he went the next day. I don't think the petition was even mentioned explicitly by theresa may, but that mustve been what swayed it, imo
Well I voted to remain in the EU, and despite losing the Referendum I have major reservations about how the UK is going to extricate itself from ALL aspects of EU membership - at social, political, economic and financial aspects.
The UK's own government is in complete turmoil with some mininsters wanting a hard Brexit, while others want a soft one; and negotiations with the EU is turning out to be farcical.
Article 50 was invoked and we are due to leave the EU at the end of March 2019 - but I suspect it will end in tears, with the UK at a distinct disadvantage on so many levels.
At the moment all I (or indeed any of us in the UK) can do is hope for the best and plan for the worst. My alternative escape plan was nixxed a few years back and frankly I am not going to be working long enough to be able to redo that one (mostly because I doubt I'll live quite long enough lol).