The movie started perfectly. It continued to be perfect for much of its running time. However, I have one complaint and it's a big one.
There was no Gwen Stacy. Her death is such a major part of Spider Man's history and character that I can't believe they did without it. It's every bit as crucial to who Spidey is as Uncle Ben's demise. Without Gwen's death, Norman Osbourne's is meaningless, as well.
Yeah, it seemed like they switched Mary Jane for Gwen, maybe because most people know who Mary Jane is, while only the fans know about Gwen Stacy. Also, it was probably a little too sad.
Anyone else ever read the WHAT IF? series installment called "What If Gwen Stacy Had Lived?" It ended up bad for Spidey-somehow it resulted in everyone finding out his identity and him being hunted by the police, unable to make his wedding date with Gwen.
Those Comics ruled. For some reason they all ended with everyone dying. I remember one of them.
What if Rouge stole Thors power?
Answer: She kills everyone and goes to prision (no lie)
The movie seems to be following more along with the newer Ultimate Spider-Man storyline than the older Amazing/Spectacular version. In that current series, neither Gwen nor MJ is dead and Peter got bitten by an Oscorp spider.
I don't really care whether it's Gwen or MJ. I agree with jmc, more casual fans would know who MJ is. This is a 2 hour movie, and fitting in Gwen, her death, and all that it encompasses, only to introduce MJ in Spidey 2, would be pretty complicated. Actually, I have a somewhat similar query (not a complaint-just wondering), why wasn't Doc Ock the villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would know who Doc Ock is.
BTW, I too loved the What If... books. Here are some of my faves-
What If... Apocalypse killed the X-Men?
What If... Spider-Man joined Fantastic Four?
What if... The Punisher killed Spider-Man?
I also remember a DC version, can't remember the name, and one of the stories was what if Clark Kent were Batman? In it, Clark is adopted by the Wayne family, and they are killed, and he seeks vengeance in the guise of a bat, except he has Supe's powers. Pretty cool.
I think Raimi made the right decision in keeping Gwen Stacy out. To have Uncle Ben and Peter Parker's girlfriend die in the same film would be too much, plus for people who think the movie ending is a downer would be traumatized if it ended with death. However, I thought a lot of information that spanned several comics was tightly packed in the film. If Gwen was in it, Harry, J.J.J., M.J., Normon and even Peter Parker wouldn't get as much development. I originally was suprised when I saw the trailer with G.G. dangling M.J. off the bridge, thinking blasphamy, but upon viewing the film, it would have hurt the whole film if Gwen was in it.
I M mad cuz the clone saga was lef tout
htey cud hav called it spidemran: attack of the clonesaga
wher was electro ? his custume is super and sandman he is cool too
th nex muvie shud hav twevle villiains and sungs by th eartist formrelly knoun as price
and be nine dayz long
also it shud have secret wars coz secrete warz is abig important part of sipderman legacy
I hope iron man and thor is in th hulk movie
shehulk haz big boobs
(I'm not really like that, guys...I'm just makin' fun of the fanboys.)
Hay! LEaVe th Fan boyz lone. We never dune anything tA YOU. eXCEPT THAt 1 time, but thatz all.
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I might have mentioned, once or twice, that I've been a fan of Spider-man for most of my life. At one point I owned the "Green Goblin's Last Stand," which is one of the comics the movie is ever so loosely based one. It was, and still is, one of the best Spider-man stories.
Beside the point, really. What I can never quite understand is why Gwen Stacy keeps getting dropped. (You know what I mean.) Her death was a vital key to the origin of one of the creepiest Spider-man villains, the undead-ish Carrion. That guy STILL haunts me to this day.
And his death was one of the DUMBEST IN COMICS HISTORY. Killed by the Spider-Amoeba. I kid you not. Makes a man long for the Spider-mobile, it does.
Just a thought that sprung up and wouldn't go away.
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I spell checked this post, including that top portion. There was a slight pause, then a message popped up: "You f***ing kidding." Now it refusing to spell check anything for me.
Is this normal?
J.R. wrote:
>
>why wasn't Doc Ock the
> villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common
> criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true
> villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would
> know who Doc Ock is.
Because the Goblin's backstory is more related to Spidey's. Everyone involved in the story is connected: Peter, MJ, Harry, Norman. Sure, they could have crafted and played up an angle for Peter to know Dr. Otto Octavius, but there's no way he could have organically been involved in the love triangle storyline as well.
Nathan
That's why I'm worried about the sequel. One of the few connecting dramatic hooks left is Aunt May's "Spider-Man phobia," left untouched in the first movie. (Mary Jane figuring out who Spidey is--deliciously left open at the end of the movie--is another, but none of them interlace like the Parker-Watkins-Osbourne-Osbourne-Parker ring.) The Lizard ("Dr. Conners") is mentioned in a throwaway line in the movie, but he and Doc Ock have little personal connection to Peter Parker--and because they could come out looking just as silly as the Green Goblin might have (picture a fat guy with a bowl-chop on flexible stilts and someone in a slim Godzilla suit), one wrong move combined with the lack of dramatic connections could leave us with another Batman Returns. Sorry--hated that one. They all have moments or elements, but none of them are really good, even if some suck worse than others.
Doc Ock's gonna need a jetpack attachment or something. C'mon. A police chopper would have no trouble keeping up with him. Plus, doing the tentacles realistically would curtail their length considerably. Having Spidey fight The Lizard in big sewer junctions and warehouses and jumping around rooftops might work, but Doc will require the kind of overhaul that has the fanboys screaming foul all the way up to the premier (no offense Cullen).
I think seeing Doc Ock walking on his tentacles would be great, and those wacky things extend so he can move purty fast. However, I hope they don't go for Todd MacFarlane's "Torment" Lizard that is just vicious and opt for the speaking Lizard. And the Lizard should have ORGANIC WEBSHOOTERS! Wait, is that the Lizard I'm thinking of?
J.R. wrote:
>
>why wasn't Doc Ock the
> villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common
> criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true
> villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would
> know who Doc Ock is.
They were probably saving up Doc Ock for the sequel, where they wouldn't have to worry about setting up the story for the entire franchise and they could *really* use him.
Squishy wrote:
>
> shehulk haz big boobs
>
>
Chadzilla (in best mouth breather fashion)
And tehy GREEN tooo! ;-)
No, they'd do Doc Ock and Lizard with CGI. I can see the trailer now: Dock Ock tearing down a street his huge, labrynthian tentacles smashing against cars and buildings, LOTR Cave Troll-style. And Squishy brought up something interesting: One of the mainstays of Spidey comics was the battles in sewer alcoves, warehouses, and such, and hopefully with Sam The Man being such a big Webhead buff, he'll include those in the next film.
(no offense Cullen).
None take was what I meant to post. However, the thought of a man with a bowel cut on stilts seems to have warped my fragile little mind. (That and Spider-man fighting a man in a Godzilla suit in the middle of the sewers.)
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Just as an aside: Spider-man has met Godzilla. Way back when Marvel had the rights to publish "Godzilla" comics.
Now, is it sad that I know this?
Aw, hells no. I remember that awful comic. I remember the cigar-chomping SHIELD idiot in the bowler and his upright-but-funky Black sidekick floating around in their Dick Tracy space-buckets, and I remember Dr. Demonicus and his menagerie. THAT's sad.
Not as sad as a man with a "bowel" cut, though. :)
God help me, I just remembered the "Kenny" character and his giant robot, Red Ronin. Eeeeeeeeeeee it burns eeeeeeeeeee
It might have been awful -- it's been years since I had one in hand -- but I LOVED that comic as a kid. I have tons of fond (if faint) memories of that series and the Marvel "Shogun Warrior" series.
You just can't find those comics anywhere any more. Probably cost an arm and a leg if you did.
I think they should re-invent the franchise as Peter-Porker - Spider-Ham. I don't know if I was the only kid that read (and loved) this comic, but after Spider-Man doing so poorly at the box-office it really needs a re-vamp. Plus, Joel Schumacher should direct Freddie Prinz Jr. in the Porker role. AND MECHANICAL WEB-SHOOTERS ON THE PIG!
Comics2film.com reports a rumor that Robin Williams is being considered for Doc Ock. Just a rumor. Still, I and officially scared.
The reviews have been good for Williams' preformance in "Insomnia" and he might well do a good job as Ock. But...I don't know. He doesn't strike me as Otto Octavius. Course, William DaFoe didn't strike me as the Green Goblin, either, until after I saw the movie.
The worst rumor I heard about Ock casting came years ago. Arnold Schwarzenegger as Doc Ock. Talk about wrong for the part...
Schwartznegger? Holy crapfest, Batman!
True, Williams finally took a break from his recent rut of manic "Jesus"-figure roles to play even scarier loons, both in Insomnia and the upcoming One Hour Photo, but every time I try to picture him as Ock, I keep seeing him in Toys for some reason. And he won't stop screaming at the camera.
Now I'm having visions of a new Superman movie--Nicholas Cage is there in his dream role, Arnold Schwartznegger is Lex Luthor, Alicia Silverstone is Lois Lane, Danny DeVito is Mister Mxyzptlk, and Patrick Stewart is camping it up as Brainiac...in drag.
With Mark Pillow as Nuclear Man.
help me
I'm officially starting my campaign for Lance Henriksen as Doc Ock right now.
Nathan
<>
Mark Pillow was the Klinton Spilsbury of his time.
Doc Ock has to be kind of chubby and German, so sorry, Henriksen is out. I'd say Martin Sheen, but he was Wynn in Spawn, and no one should be two comic villains. Joe Estevez! Naw, I'm not that lucky. How about Michael Douglas? His impressive chin-butt alone would make him a daunting menace.
Whoever they cast as Doc Ock, I hope it isn't some "big name" actor completely wrong for the part, like Arnie as Mr. Freeze.
Willem Defoe was a great choice for Norman Osbourne/Green Goblin. I wouldn\'t have thought so before I saw the movie but he surprised me. I hope they continue casting in that vein.
I can't see him as Ock. Curt Conners on the other hand...
With Adam Sandler as Jimmy Olsen!
(peeing on wall) "Hello mistah Supermans...I'm like yah biggest fah-yan..."
"Pillow & Spilsbury" should do a cop-buddy picture...if anyone can find them.
Billy Bob Thorton as Doc Ock and Bill Paxton as Dr. Connors.
No! Wait! Bruce Campbell as Curt Connors!!! They could snag an "A-list" star for Octavius, and have Bruce steal the show. Spidey 2 will make a bazillion dollars no matter what, and Sam Raimi could provbably swing it.
Is anyone else kinda worried about the sequel having two villains? I like the way this one focused on one villain, G.G. and made him not only a threat to Spidey, but a really interesting, important character. It would be great if the villains could be fleshed out and given a decent orgin story and not just trying to kill Spider-Man. I have no doubt Raimi can pull it off, but it just seems to be going the way of the Batman franchise.
This is not going to happen, but what I would like to see out of a "Two Villains" Spider-man is to have the first villain in the prologue. Sort of like James Bond, when he's just finishing an assignment. Spidey beats him, then the rest of the movie is about villain #2
Of course, you'd want the two to connect in some way, and not be separate incidents.
The new issue of Toyfare magazine has some odd sketches and figures of potential villains--Doc Ock, Vulture, Black Cat, a couple of versions of Electro, and some real off-source versions of Rhino and Venom. Most of them don't have a chance in hell of seeing the screen, and rightfully so, but they're fun to look at...