WTH is Trump doing?
What are peoples view on this? to me it looks like he stupidly opened a can of worms that won't be shut anytime soon
the US was working with Suleimani fairly recently in iradicating ISIS
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENYV1O6UYAALvbA?format=jpg&name=small)
My opinion is: thumbs way down: stupid use of military might :thumbdown:
Well, on the one hand, Trump has been busy pulling our military out of places we really have no business, & on the other hand, every president from H Bush to the bamster has stepped on the serpent's tail & said mission accomplished as it slithered away while Trump's going for the neck up....
Quote from: lester1/2jr on January 03, 2020, 09:30:05 PM
WTH is Trump doing?
What are peoples view on this? to me it looks like he stupidly opened a can of worms that won't be shut anytime soon
the US was working with Suleimani fairly recently in iradicating ISIS
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENYV1O6UYAALvbA?format=jpg&name=small)
My opinion is: thumbs way down: stupid use of military might :thumbdown:
You're acting like the Trump Administration did this unprovoked.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-soleimani-insight-idUSKBN1Z301Z (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-soleimani-insight-idUSKBN1Z301Z)
You're also acting like kicking the can down the road for the next President to deal with is a good and sound U.S. policy. The bad part about that policy is that you can only kick the can so far before you come across a U.S. President that is going to decide to kick it back.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-neither-bush-or-obama-killed-iranian-general-qassem-soleimani-2020-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/why-neither-bush-or-obama-killed-iranian-general-qassem-soleimani-2020-1)
Kik what down the road. The Iran deal was signed sealed and delivered. Iran was in the rearview mirror. It was over.
Why do we even have an embassy in Iraq? Iraq war was a total scam I have absolutely no skin in the game of anything with the Middle East whatsoever.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on January 03, 2020, 11:28:00 PM
Kik what down the road. The Iran deal was signed sealed and delivered. Iran was in the rearview mirror. It was over.
Then why did Iran keep attacking us? Obama's gift of $1.7 billion dollars for free in that so-called Iran "deal" wasn't enough for them? It wasn't money "owed" to them either; criminals don't collect interest on frozen assets; if they were "owed" $400 million dollars then that's what they should have gotten back after taking Americans hostage in 1979.
QuoteWhy do we even have an embassy in Iraq? Iraq war was a total scam I have absolutely no skin in the game of anything with the Middle East whatsoever.
Pretty much every country has an embassy in every other country. The Iraq war may have been a scam, but everybody has a skin in the game when it comes to the global market. Perhaps you don't remember the price gouging at the gas pump when the invasion of Iraq started, or the Oil For Food Scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme#Abuse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme#Abuse), but believe me there was more at stake in Iraq at the time than weapons of mass destruction.
When did they keep attacking us? The money was an incentive to get them to sign on. It was hugely popular
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal_framework read the international reactions part
pretty much all our friends and even people who don't like us or weren't included voiced approval. The only entities that didn't were Israel and saudi Arabia, the two most hated countries in the world.
oil for food? dude this is an ancient talking point the price of oil is not what this was about
QuotePretty much every country has an embassy in every other country.
why do we have one that is clearly in the the thick of the action in a country we were supposed to have left militarily a long time ago
Relevant
http://youtu.be/zUzd9KyIDrM (http://youtu.be/zUzd9KyIDrM)
Quote from: lester1/2jr on January 04, 2020, 01:57:28 AM
When did they keep attacking us?
[/quote]
You typed the guy's name, but it's clear that you haven't even bothered to read up on Suleimani's history. Obama's own Department of Defense labeled the guy a terrorist. You are being willfully ignorant.
For once I agree with Lester. Maybe not for the same reasons, but yeah-wtf? We should NOT be starting a new war in the Mideast now. Madness. Just pull the f**k out. We still got people in Afghanistan and Iraq- and now this ? f**k all this.
Folks can say-"Let's go to war!" But the folks who say that ain't on the front lines getting shot at.
Will this turn into another drawn out mess like Afghanistan for 10 years or more? This s**t is lasting longer then Vietnam.
It's gonna take more than some moron like Trump to sort that mess out.
Quote from: RCMerchant on January 04, 2020, 03:47:58 AM
...
Folks can say-"Let's go to war!" But the folks who say that ain't on the front lines getting shot at.
...
Yeh, like Private Bone Spurs.
Zelmo - re read the first post. we worked with the guy to eradicate ISIS.
groups like Hazbollah and Hamas are part of their elective governments. it was al qaeda who attacked us on 9/11 and ISIS who have been rampaging through Europe. Wahabi Muslims educated in Saudi funded mosques
Saudi arabia and Israels problems aren't ours.
at any rate, we didn't kill him because he was a bad guy it was because he was allegedly planning attacks against us.. In the continental US??? London who knows they won't tell us
Feels like some Jim Jones s*** honestly
why did trump do it? because it's the initial step towards declaring himself dictator.
now he's saying if Iraq kicks us out, which they just voted to do, he'll put sanctions on them. so much for de escalation
Iran is now launching an attack on US bases in Iraq
its all over the news
He forced their hand
World War 3 appears to be on the horizon thanks to the doofus in chief.
Private Bone Spurs figured he would deflect attention away from his own sh!t storm by pulling an Osama Bin Laden moment... and it backfired.
Iran spokesman said they responded Within some U.N. law to the base or bases that the attack against the general guy was launched from.
Conservatives I follow on Twitter were s**ting their pants as the event was unfolding. Once it started to deescalate they started talking tough again :lookingup:
Maybe it wasn't a good idea for the US to start a war.
And they are striking our bases in Iraq tonight, Trump is promising retaliation . . .
It won't be WW3. I don't see Russia or China sticking their necks out to rescue a pariah state like Iran.
But it could easily be another long, messy, costly Middle Eastern conflict courtesy of the guy who promised to end our "endless wars."
And since Iran is a very old hand at the game of terrorism, with sleeper cells buried all over the Western world, I am fully expecting a blow here in the United States before long.
Proxy wars are one thing, striking at a high tanking government official is another . . . whatever American blood is shed, Trump will deserve a lion's share of the blame. This whole thing was avoidable.
Will trump back down now or stick to his guns I wonder? If he backs down he makes the US look weak (even if it is a sensible move), if he escalates then he risks another war.
There was a documentry shown in the UK a few months ago about this guy. Didn't catch it myself, but I from what I hear what most people who saw it have said "Why wasn't this guy killed off before this?"
Quote from: Alex on January 08, 2020, 02:05:23 AM
There was a documentry shown in the UK a few months ago about this guy. Didn't catch it myself, but I from what I hear what most people who saw it have said "Why wasn't this guy killed off before this?"
You and many people have thought of the same thing before his campaign started. He was always outspoken like an old cartoon villain that it's eerie to see it in action.
The counter strike....
So, so far, we're told nobody was killed, & Trump is cool with it.......
The rumors....
Iran tipped us off because they didn't want to tick us off, & four of their missiles didn't even make it to the county line..........
It was apparently the first time ever that a nation state did an offensive attack of any kind on a nuclear power, or something like that.
prediction: the very first question at the first debate is going to be to Trump and its going to be along the lines of "what the Hell were you thinking?"
and wtf is he gonna say??
I am guessing he'll claim that his actions prevented a war, regardless of him making such a thing more likely. After all it is exactly what he said with North Korea.
http://youtu.be/9u3GDBOXei4 (http://youtu.be/9u3GDBOXei4)
Alex- this isn't going to be one of his rallies though. whoever the dem candidate is is gonna have one Hell of an openinng
Edit- if iran shot down that plane I am going full neocon.
My Occam's razor based guess it's another s**ty 737
both sides of the aisle said the breifing was s**t and that the doofus in chief's legal reasoning were junk
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/insulting-and-demeaning-lawmakers-rip-trump-administration-after-iran-briefing/ar-BBYL4Pu?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/insulting-and-demeaning-lawmakers-rip-trump-administration-after-iran-briefing/ar-BBYL4Pu?ocid=spartanntp)
Trump has to know he screwed up.... right?
Quote from: bob on January 08, 2020, 10:55:09 PM
...
Trump has to know he screwed up.... right?
We can hope he knows.
Quote from: bob on January 08, 2020, 10:55:09 PM
Trump has to know he screwed up.... right?
Knowing? Maybe. Acknowledging it? Not a chance
I'm hearing some interesting chatter regarding the downed 737.
the idea that the US or Iran would shoot down the plane seemed just too crazy to me. both sides were playing this careful chess match and the plane was full of civilians who had nothing to do with anything.
so I'm hearing speculation that somehow, i'm not a plane expert, signals of the plane were jammed which not only made it so they couldn't call for help but aspects of one of the wings malfunctioned.
just talk for now
edit
Quote...Not only fire on the climb, but exploded on the way down. It is not a mechanical catastrophic failure but it was believed of an intentionally electronic attack/jam to conceal a stealthy mission conducted by 6 f-35s faning low into IR airspace right after the attack.
By streets, the US f-35s based in saudi immediately conducted a EW after the attack and mistakenly/intentionally jammed the Ukrainian 737. The jam caused fire on the right wing fuel by a short circuit. The 2 pilots might get instantly disoriented from an electrical impact.
The latest reporting from the Pentagon is that their satellites detected two missile launches followed by an explosion. The missiles were launched from a Russian built TOR-1M tracked missile carrier (there are photos of missile fragments taken near crash site). They are saying it was probably accidental.
This intelligence has been shared with the Canadian government (63 of those killed were Canadian) and the PM is supposed brief the press at any moment.
thats probably the more likely explanation
If it's mechanical/electrical then there's no need to jump onto WAR. Regarding the black boxes it's a head scratcher to those who are wondering why they aren't being sent to Boeing since it was a 737 that crashed. From what I could gather the Iranian's NTSB is looking it over, hopefully they'll cooperate with Canada's NTSB to see what caused it to go down.
With around 20 years of experience working on aircraft I'd go with either Iran shot it down accidently (their military would doubtless have been on high alert and maybe someone got nervous, mistook a radar contact and shot it down), or that it was a fault that caused it to crash. I haven't been following reports closely but if it was shot down, I'd expect to hear that there were signs of an explosion before the fire as the missile hit (ok, anti aircraft missiles don't actually hit their target, they just blow up near to it), maybe even sightings of a something flying towards it depending on the light levels. There could have been an onboard electronics failure that took out the comms, although these systems to have backups and they would have had multiple independent comms systems (there are instances of triple redundancy systems failing with odds of one in a billion) and don't easily fail.
It is a sad reflection on things that once I heard trump say it was shot down I automatically thought "Must have been a fault then."
Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time the US has shot down an airliner coming out of Tehran if that was what happened (I don't think thats likely in this case, but it can't be completely discounted at this stage either).
So it is looking like it was indeed shot down. I wonder why someone just happened to be filming there, but without seeing more of the video it is hard to get context. Thinking allowed today at work I said that I wonder how quickly a conspiracy theory would spread if someone made one up, like it was actually the Russian's who shot it down, looking to further destabilize relations between the west and Iran. My boss looked at me and said "That is surprisingly plausible."