Some time ago I joined a discussion at another message board about What's Up, Doc? (1972). During the finale in the court room Madeleine Kahn's character Eunice complains that her abducters were trying to molest her. The judge takes a look at her and says "I find that... unbelievable."
Someone at the message board said that very scene doesn't fit well with him these days, though he admitted he found it hilarious years ago.
Another toppic was Sixteen Candles (1984) which always seem to raise eyebrows now because of its misogynistic and racist tone, substance abuse, gay slurs and date rape fantasies.
Do you think the cancel culture outrage is hypocritical since the world hasn't really changed?
Quote from: claws on May 01, 2022, 05:00:35 AM
Some time ago I joined a discussion at another message board about What's Up, Doc? (1972). During the finale in the court room Madeleine Kahn's character Eunice complains that her abducters were trying to molest her. The judge takes a look at her and says "I find that... unbelievable."
Someone at the message board said that very scene doesn't fit well with him these days, though he admitted he found it hilarious years ago.
Another toppic was Sixteen Candles (1984) which always seem to raise eyebrows now because of its misogynistic and racist tone, substance abuse, gay slurs and date rape fantasies.
Do you think the cancel culture outrage is hypocritical since the world hasn't really changed?
In my job, I find I have to warn people (the young ones, especially) about older films made in the 1960s and 1970s where non PC terms are used. Most of the time, the reaction I get is "OK, thanks" but sometimes I get people getting really offended at racial terms used. One client even reported me to my boss when I screened
The Wild Geese and pre-warned the client about racial remarks made. :question:
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there" - L.P. Hartley
Sadly people today seem to have mostly lost the capacity to view things in a historical context. I am surprised that they seem to be overly sensitive to cultural differences though.
Quote from: claws on May 01, 2022, 05:00:35 AM
Some time ago I joined a discussion at another message board about What's Up, Doc? (1972). During the finale in the court room Madeleine Kahn's character Eunice complains that her abducters were trying to molest her. The judge takes a look at her and says "I find that... unbelievable."
Someone at the message board said that very scene doesn't fit well with him these days, though he admitted he found it hilarious years ago.
Another toppic was Sixteen Candles (1984) which always seem to raise eyebrows now because of its misogynistic and racist tone, substance abuse, gay slurs and date rape fantasies.
Do you think the cancel culture outrage is hypocritical since the world hasn't really changed?
Disagree with the second part of your premise: the world has changed, in that cultural attitudes have changed (maybe you mean human nature hasn't changed, though.)
Every individual scene depends on the context. On this topic, people usually bring up the N-word in BLAZING SADDLES, which (like "Hucklebery Finn") is satire and perfectly appropriate today. But things like Mickey Rooney's character in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANYS, date rape jokes, etc. make us cringe, and they should.
Nothing should be banned or boycotted because of non-PC content. I don't think there are as many people advocating that position as the easily-outraged "CANCEL CULTURE!" faction believes there are. I wish Disney would release SONG OF THE SOUTH; I have an ultraliberal African-American friend who thinks they should, too.
"Cancel culture" swings both ways.
Far right politicians burn or ban books and are at war with Disney- yet get p**sed with Dr. Suess books ceasing certain titles .
Myself- I think 'cancel culture' is a play on both sides to rouse up a certain demographic who only care about being outraged, not real life issues that matter.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on May 01, 2022, 10:42:08 AM
(maybe you mean human nature hasn't changed, though.)
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Trying to erase history won't make the world we live in a better place. It's even worse now.
I think "cancel culture" has made things more worse than it has better. Instead of simply not liking something and moving on, people now go out of their way to make sure things they don't like don't get to exist. It also enforces a victim status where if people can say "I'm offended by this" it makes them automatically right. This in turn has led to more people going out of their way to find things to offend them so they can get more attention for being a victim.
It also means you aren't allowed to enjoy or even have conversations about things with an element that people might find issues with. Lovecraft for example can't be discussed without people bringing up racism. Most of them do it not because they have any real issues with him, but because they want to make it obvious that they don't approve of what he did and earn their wokeness points.
Quote from: chainsaw midget on May 03, 2022, 07:49:48 AM
I think "cancel culture" has made things more worse than it has better. Instead of simply not liking something and moving on, people now go out of their way to make sure things they don't like don't get to exist. It also enforces a victim status where if people can say "I'm offended by this" it makes them automatically right. This in turn has led to more people going out of their way to find things to offend them so they can get more attention for being a victim.
It also means you aren't allowed to enjoy or even have conversations about things with an element that people might find issues with. Lovecraft for example can't be discussed without people bringing up racism. Most of them do it not because they have any real issues with him, but because they want to make it obvious that they don't approve of what he did and earn their wokeness points.
Don't take this the wrong way, but... so you're offended by cancel culture and want it cancelled so you can earn your anti-wokeness points? :wink:
I was the biggest anti-PC guy in the 90s, until I decided that for the most part, the anti-PC crowd engaged in the same basic behavior as the PC crowd: looking for excuses to be outraged.
Now I think that the truth is that every issue has to be discussed on its own merits. Abstract umbrella terms are counterproductive. People complain about stuff they don't like or disapprove of, that's free speech. Mostly, "cancel culture" is just a small amount of noisy people on Twitter whose voices get magnified by the nature of social media, which is an engine fueled by outrage.
I think "cancel culture" and the culture wars in general are fake controversies that are destroying our unity. If I were conspiracy-minded, I'd say these controversies were invented to distract us from more important issues.
In Austin I once heard Willie Nelson utter a surprisingly keen bit of wisdom that applies to this overall subject:
"Don't try to control other people, and don't let them try to control you."
Be yourself. Express yourself. Don't like something? Then avoid it.
Seems easy enough to me.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on May 03, 2022, 08:20:44 AM
I was the biggest anti-PC guy in the 90s, until I decided that for the most part, the anti-PC crowd engaged in the same basic behavior as the PC crowd: looking for excuses to be outraged.
Now I think that the truth is that every issue has to be discussed on its own merits. Abstract umbrella terms are counterproductive. People complain about stuff they don't like or disapprove of, that's free speech. Mostly, "cancel culture" is just a small amount of noisy people on Twitter whose voices get magnified by the nature of social media, which is an engine fueled by outrage.
I think "cancel culture" and the culture wars in general are fake controversies that are destroying our unity. If I were conspiracy-minded, I'd say these controversies were invented to distract us from more important issues.
I suppose the problem is defining what the more important issues are & determining their root causes. What causes harm? How? Where? To Whom? For how long?
Restrictions on speech basically amount to an assentation that certain ideas will eventually result in someone taking poor actions, which will harm themselves, others, & society at large.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on May 03, 2022, 08:20:44 AM
I think "cancel culture" and the culture wars in general are fake controversies that are destroying our unity. If I were conspiracy-minded, I'd say these controversies were invented to distract us from more important issues.
Plus ça change?
The cancellation changed sides. I remember the Christian right attacking the likes of heavy metal, rap, video games, comics, Dungeons & Dragons, slasher movies and so on. Now the extreme left now attack anime, movies, comedy, video games (again) and so on. It's extremism trying to claim they are the majority. If you don't like something, you don't have to watch it. I also don't like either of them.
Three videos come to mind:
John Cleese on Extremism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXCkxlqFd90 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXCkxlqFd90)
Frank Zappa on Crossfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc&t=726s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9856_xv8gc&t=726s)
George Carlin on Political Correctness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EMiSsxpP0E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EMiSsxpP0E)
Personally I feel society has become overly sensitive and need to grow up. Words exist, bad things were done, and you do not have to be catered to. The "culture war" is nothing more then a distraction away from the real problems we have. Simple put I find people who have my own taste in cinema or are more tolerable to older films with understanding of the past.
Quote from: Cult_Moody_Movies on May 21, 2022, 02:09:16 AM
The cancellation changed sides. I remember the Christian right attacking the likes of heavy metal, rap, video games, comics, Dungeons & Dragons, slasher movies and so on. Now the extreme left now attack anime, movies, comedy, video games (again) and so on. It's extremism trying to claim they are the majority. If you don't like something, you don't have to watch it. I also don't like either of them.
Personally I feel society has become overly sensitive and need to grow up. Words exist, bad things were done, and you do not have to be catered to. The "culture war" is nothing more then a distraction away from the real problems we have. Simple put I find people who have my own taste in cinema or are more tolerable to older films with understanding of the past.
That really hasn't changed. Its just more that the other side has gotten as loud.