https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eT5_a0m4Rcw
For the first time since Chinese tanks crushed protests in Tiananmen square, there have been mass public protests, some forceful, in China. They've been going on for nearly a week now. The policies are over massive large scale lockdowns lastibg weeks or months over covid tgst have shut in millions of people repeatedly for about 3 years now.
Protests in Russia against pooty, protests in Iran against oppression of women and human rights violations and now protests in a country that last used tanks when the people protested. Seems like people are getting tired of totalitarianism and oppression.
I'd like to talk about people rebelling against tyranny, if possible. I'm hoping it doesn't go off into a long tangent.
Generals fighting the last war
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 02, 2022, 12:50:00 AM
Generals fighting the last war
Those get a lot of their own people killed...
The protests in Iran, China and Russia give me a little but of hope for the world.
I don't think by themselves these protests will overthrow governments. I don't think they quite on the path that swept through the middle east a few years back, but I hope it is steps along the path that leads them to a freer type of government if that is what the people want. I'd be happy if they were though and hope that it ended better for them than it has for the people of Libya and Syria.
I think it was Toynbee who pointed out that wars and violent revolutions tend to come during times of improving conditions, so sometimes protests make me nervous. Of course I'm also all in favor of people having better lives and admire the courage it takes to face down a violent government.
there are protests in russia?
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 03, 2022, 01:41:09 AM
there are protests in russia?
They are cracked down on by the security forces quite heavily, but yes there are protests. One day in September saw over 1300 people arrested alone.
Looks like emperor Xi has backed down on the covid policy. A little.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ChrOpdAr7fY
I shared this in another thread: some Westerners living in China also point out that hundreds of protests take place every year, and many of them involve not just against things like lockdowns but also local politicians grabbing land, bank runs, and poor work conditions in places where electronic gadgets are manufactured from outsourcing of companies in rich countries.
I also visited some right-wing fora which naturally blame China, Russia, gays, Muslims, etc., for any societal ills, and there appears to be threads every year or so of China falling apart and revolution taking place since 2010.
Here's where it gets weirder: according to one source, Harvard conducted on-the-ground studies with careful avoidance of any biases, and discovered that the approval rating of the Commies is around 90+ pct. However, most Chinese aren't Communists but capitalists: they want to do business in the long-term. The conclusion of the studies is that the only reason why the CCP has been able to retain power is because of unprecedented economic growth: something like 7 pct on average the last four decades, one of the highest in the world, and where they essentially lifted something like 800 million people out of poverty in only two decades, and mainly through manufacturing and mechanized agriculture.
There are unconfirmed reports that Iran has announced they are disbanding the morality police and looking at the law requiring women to wear hijabs.
Quote from: ralfy on December 03, 2022, 10:14:25 PM
I shared this in another thread: some Westerners living in China also point out that hundreds of protests take place every year, and many of them involve not just against things like lockdowns but also local politicians grabbing land, bank runs, and poor work conditions in places where electronic gadgets are manufactured from outsourcing of companies in rich countries.
I also visited some right-wing fora which naturally blame China, Russia, gays, Muslims, etc., for any societal ills, and there appears to be threads every year or so of China falling apart and revolution taking place since 2010.
Here's where it gets weirder: according to one source, Harvard conducted on-the-ground studies with careful avoidance of any biases, and discovered that the approval rating of the Commies is around 90+ pct. However, most Chinese aren't Communists but capitalists: they want to do business in the long-term. The conclusion of the studies is that the only reason why the CCP has been able to retain power is because of unprecedented economic growth: something like 7 pct on average the last four decades, one of the highest in the world, and where they essentially lifted something like 800 million people out of poverty in only two decades, and mainly through manufacturing and mechanized agriculture.
Ralfy, the day Harvard does ANYTHING without biases is the day pigs fly.
Quote from: Alex on December 05, 2022, 03:40:04 AM
There are unconfirmed reports that Iran has announced they are disbanding the morality police and looking at the law requiring women to wear hijabs.
Good news if true. We'll see how far they actually go.
I was talking to a guy from Turkey the other day. It is not uncommon for women from oppressive Middle Eastern countries to go there to wear mini skirts and so forth.
Gee, a poll taken in a hyper authoritarian state says the people support tge state. Imagine my amazement. Could it be that saying you don't support the state in such a country could get you a scholarship to a re education facility?
Quote from: ER on December 05, 2022, 06:54:26 AM
Ralfy, the day Harvard does ANYTHING without biases is the day pigs fly.
The problem is that they are biased in favor of neoliberalism, as that's what their Wall Street corporate sponsors want. In this case, their findings show the opposite.
Quote from: Morpheus, the unwoke. on December 05, 2022, 05:32:23 PM
Gee, a poll taken in a hyper authoritarian state says the people support tge state. Imagine my amazement. Could it be that saying you don't support the state in such a country could get you a scholarship to a re education facility?
According to that foreigner, it looks like it's not as hyper as many imagine. Meanwhile, the study had to remove as many extraneous factors as possible. That said, I think their conclusion, that the Chinese support the CCP only because it ensured high economic growth for decades, makes sense.
However, there's one one point that wasn't mentioned: I read that Chinese society tends to be authoritarian and traditional, with or without Communism. That's why similar sentiments are found in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and even in parts of Southeast Asia, including Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore.
QuoteI read that Chinese society tends to be authoritarian and traditional, with or without Communism.
the places you list have wildly different forms of government from China and from each other though, so not much of a correlation.
Quote from: lester1/2jr on December 06, 2022, 12:54:19 AM
the places you list have wildly different forms of government from China and from each other though, so not much of a correlation.
Japan has been run by one political party for around 50 years, and its views remain traditional. South Korea was controlled by a military dictatorship for around 20, and it still has a very stringent military service requirement. Taiwan was controlled by the Koumintang for almost four decades; guess who's back.
I think you can research on the other countries by yourself to confirm my points.