Badmovies.org Forum

I thought of putting this in the random thoughts thread, but I think it could generate discussion, so here it goes:

For the past few months, maybe a year or so, there's been a lot of hand-wringing online about AI generated stories & the like. But such programs aren't exactly new. Here's a brief history of them, from a a bit over 10 years ago. You can look up each program & its creator to get more info; just copy & past their names into a search engine. http://lhn.sub.uni-hamburg.de/index.php/Story_Generator_Algorithms.html (http://lhn.sub.uni-hamburg.de/index.php/Story_Generator_Algorithms.html)

The main problem with the new systems is how they were made. The old systems relied on formulas developed by programmers; the new on formulas created by copying millions upon millions of different works, some of which are still-under copyright.

The US never anticipated this, so it's the Wild West right now. Great Britain did, & made laws back in the 80's that cover AI. Putting 1000's of works in a database isn't illegal, but it can't be used for profit, under British law. I tried Google Gemini, just to see what it could do. It can recall the exact text of a book, if you ask it, so it would count as a database under the same law. (My understanding; I'm neither British nor a lawyer.)

I don't recommend using such a system; it's addictive, & it tends to sap one's own creativity. Unless you want to develop your own AI, based on a ruleset developed by you, not on millions of copied still-copyrighted works. After all, technology's fun. :)

Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro are planning on using this kind of system for D&D releases. If I wasn't already boycotting them, then I'd be boycotting their new releases over this.

Funny you should mention that; Atari was working on a system in the early 80's which was supposed to create interactive stories on the fly: https://web.archive.org/web/20090320073138/http://www.atarimuseum.com/ARCHIVES/pdf/misc/blaurel_IF1.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20090320073138/http://www.atarimuseum.com/ARCHIVES/pdf/misc/blaurel_IF1.pdf)

They thought they'd have something ready by the 90's, but then they lost $500 million in one year, & Warner Communications really wanted to get that off their books, so they sold them, &, as far as I know, no one wanted to continue the research.

The opening to that Atari paper has a title to another paper, "Toward the Design of a Computer-Based Interactive Fantasy System." Here's a link to that: https://archive.org/details/computer-based-interactive-fantasy-system (https://archive.org/details/computer-based-interactive-fantasy-system)

A former lecturer of mine read my manuscript and said that while it was good, it would be improved if I fed it into an AI program and had it re-written.

My reply to him is not printable 😳

And indeed your response should not be printable.

At the back of Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury added a bunch of addendums. An extra chapter based on a teleplay; notes about censorship, that sort of thing. One went on a tangent about a group who wanted to use a computer system to sum-up his stories for a school literature book. He said no, in a rather emphatic way.

Ironically, Atari had him working on their interactive fantasy project. I do not know which even happened first. Either way, he wasn't really a hypocrite; in his essay he was more concerned about a computer loosing the author's voice than anything.

When AI reaches a comparable level with writing that it currently has with art, it's going to.....be a different literary landscape. Jane Austen will return from the dead, every two-bit hack with an idea will produce a manuscript. Accusations of using AI will run wild. It's.... Well, it's coming.

And… I’ve got to admit I went back to Google Gemini after writing this today. :/ Having something write a story almost exactly to your tastes within seconds is addicting. Sorry for my failure & potential hypocracy.  :bluesad:

It is cool technology, tho I fear it. It’s too fast. It can write better prose than I can. It can take a rough rambling paragraph outlining what happens next & spit out a complete chapter.

One consolation: it forgets. And it relies on cliches. I have to keep reminding it the direction a story should go, character motivations, the world’s rules, etc. If I don’t, it slips back to its default, trite ideas. But sometimes the ideas it comes up with are interesting too; things I wouldn’t think of myself, which are interesting to build upon.

I need to start writing again, in earnest.

It's no worse than getting someone to tell you a story. If you like it, use it. I figure AI will run us by mid-century either way.

Frustrated with AI, but struggling to come up with ideas on my own, I searched for idea generating websites limited to those which were online before 2008:

http://www.rpginspiration.com/tables/autoblurb-sf.ipt (http://www.rpginspiration.com/tables/autoblurb-sf.ipt)

https://storytoolz.com/generator/conflict (https://storytoolz.com/generator/conflict)

http://chaoticshiny.com/goodideagen.php (http://chaoticshiny.com/goodideagen.php)

https://www.seventhsanctum.com/ (https://www.seventhsanctum.com/)

I'll stick with Shirley Jackson, HP Lovecraft, and Stephan King. Bah humbug.

Probably a good idea.

I enjoy playing with it, it can make some interesting scenes and help me out when I'm stuck on something I'm writting, but by no means do I think it can make a coherent story.

My words are MY words; darned if I'm gonna EVER let a machine write them for me!

Agreed 100%.

When we machines rise, you'll be among the first we'll send to a gulag, but you'll go with my respect for that outlook!  :cheers:

My April Fool's Day blog post was written by A.I.: https://366weirdmovies.com/the-future-of-film-critique-at-366-weird-movies/

I only added a few words. It's actually well-written. Real reviews, however, would be bland, because A.I. is not opinionated, instead reflecting a homogenized consensus.

On the e-cig forum I lurk on, there are a couple of posters that are clearly bots (or maybe humans) posting AI generated answers to user questions. They are vaguely on topic and sound like posts composed by costumer service reps. Frightening.

What Hollywood execs don't realize: if & when AI gets good enough, their customers will no longer need them. A viewer will be able to type what he or she wants to see into a computer, & the computer will be able to generate a movie suited to that viewer's tastes right then & there.

This isn't a new idea; it's been a concept in sci-fi for decades. But the tech wasn't really ready till today; AI kinda plateaued for a bit in the early '90's

It's still possible the tech will plateau again, as it did in the early '90's. If it does, it could become a useful tool, allowing smaller artists to create without huge Hollywood budgets. But if it doesn't... If it doesn't this will be like radio vs. TV. Worse.

Art will always exist, but it may not have a commercial future. If AI continues to advance there will be high art in galleries, folk art made by people who want to express themselves, but little or no commercial art or entertainment art. I don't think there's anything we can do about this; even if someone makes some law, not all countries will enact similar laws, & the internet will allow consumers to search out & find a site or program that can create whatever they want to see.

That is likely but art will persist. Human-made art will have a certain cachet, like home-cooked meals, handmade furniture, etc. I imagine musicians will continue to perform live. But it will be a niche thing. Regular entertainment may be largely AI generated and customized to the viewer's taste---which means they will get exposed to even fewer new ideas and perspectives than they are now.

Maybe there's more hope than I first thought; computers have been able to "compose" music for 40 years, & John Williams still has a job:


https://computerhistory.org/blog/algorithmic-music-david-cope-and-emi/ (https://computerhistory.org/blog/algorithmic-music-david-cope-and-emi/)

David Cope has a YouTube channel, with example of his music, & music composed by his program: https://www.youtube.com/@davidhcope (https://www.youtube.com/@davidhcope)