is there any movie(s) which seem to routinely feature on 'worst ever...' or 'biggest flops' type lists, and you just don't think they deserve it?
you don't necessarily have to like the film (or it can be a film you personally think is great), but more just be mystified as to why it attracts so much notoriety.
one for me is THE AVENGERS (1998)
this is in tons and tons of 'worst' lists, even being called "the CITIZEN KANE of awful" by one review... I was actually quite looking forward to seeing it because of the negative hype.
but the film is just averagely bad? I can't work out why it's got this massive reputation as an all time turkey. it's too standard (or "mid" as the cool kids now say) to really stand out as remarkable IMO
The Avengers (1998) is good, Ralph Fiennes is good as Steed, Uma Thurman is good as Mrs Peel and Sir Sean Connery is good as August DeWynter. Not sure why people didn't like it but I think the studio messed around with it in post production.
Hudson Hawk (sorry Bob 😉) is another so-called bad film which is actually quite good.
Well, is the new Snow White really that bad, or just an internet backlash victim because of the changes made to the original story?
Quote from: Trevor on April 19, 2025, 04:06:13 PMHudson Hawk (sorry Bob 😉) is another so-called bad film which is actually quite good.
haha, I love HUDSON HAWK. honestly one of the most creative and off the wall films I've ever seen. yes it's goofy as anything but it all works (for me anyway)
Quote from: claws on April 19, 2025, 04:38:39 PMWell, is the new Snow White really that bad, or just an internet backlash victim because of the changes made to the original story?
I haven't seen it but some of the songs I've heard are pretty good, especially GOOD THINGS GROW.
Quote from: claws on April 19, 2025, 04:38:39 PMWell, is the new Snow White really that bad, or just an internet backlash victim because of the changes made to the original story?
I will probably never find out first hand, but I'm going to say highly unlikely it can be
as bad as its current rep.
Test screenings didn't go well for The Avengers. Warner cut down the film from 115 minutes to 89 minutes. Because of that, key scenes were removed, resulting in continuity flaws. I guess that contributed to The Avengers badness.
Please count me as Vote 3 in defense of HUDSON HAWK. :thumbup:
I liked Hudson Hawk and the Avengers.
I'd also like to add to the list The Last Action Hero. I thought it was a really fun movie.
#TeamHawk
the movement.
Quote from: chainsaw midget on April 19, 2025, 07:43:55 PMI'd also like to add to the list The Last Action Hero. I thought it was a really fun movie.
never seen it, and not sure why!
Quote from: chainsaw midget on April 19, 2025, 07:43:55 PMI liked Hudson Hawk and the Avengers.
I'd also like to add to the list The Last Action Hero. I thought it was a really fun movie.
Agreed about TLAH: even the pinball machine was fun 😀
People hated the sparkling vampires, so, that made Twilight (2008) a bad movie. I thought it was entertaining, and Kristen Stewart's wooden acting didn't ruin the movie for me.
I elected to watch the first TWILIGHT again w/ Madame a few years ago. It had a real director who almost makes it seem like a real movie in spite of the goofy and problematic concept, and in spite of Stewart's willfully obtuse performance. Then Madame proceeded to watch all the rest of the movies, and trust me, they progressively justify the bad reputation to increasingly larger degrees!
I liked the photography in and the score of HEAVEN'S GATE but not much else. I saw it in 1981 in its disastrous first release.
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is unironically my favourite Bond movie... try and find a single 'Bond Movies Ranked' list on the net where it doesn't feature in the bottom 3...
Quote from: M.10rda on April 20, 2025, 08:14:15 AMI elected to watch the first TWILIGHT again w/ Madame a few years ago. It had a real director who almost makes it seem like a real movie in spite of the goofy and problematic concept, and in spite of Stewart's willfully obtuse performance. Then Madame proceeded to watch all the rest of the movies, and trust me, they progressively justify the bad reputation to increasingly larger degrees!
I went to see the first Twilight way back when it came out to see what the fuss was all about, and I was pleasantly surprised. It was nowhere near as bad as I expected. One of the instances of the movie being better than the book.
EXORCIST 2
there are certain films (in fact many) that I personally love but I can objectively see exactly why they've got such a terrible reputation...
this one is a kind of half-way house for me. I can totally see how fans of the original EXORCIST might be dismayed at how unfaithful it is to anything. but as a singular piece of cinematic entertainment I think it's not deserving of the hate and mockery it gets...
^ A boring success, or an interesting failure? :wink:
My favorite Part 2 story:
QuoteWilliam Friedkin, director of the first film, told a story, recalled to by a Warner Bros. executive, at the Chicago Critics Film Festival in April 2013. Studio heads came to the sneak preview of "Exorcist II" in a limo, and told the drivers to go get fast food. They entered the auditorium, and within 10 minutes into the film, an audience member stood up, glanced into the crowd, and proclaimed: "The people who made this piece of s**t are in this room!" 10 or 12 other audience members gathered to find the executives. The heads rushed out of the theater and realized that there were no cars to make their escape. They were subsequently chased down the street by a group of angry audience members.
that's funny... but a story "recalled" by 'not the teller'. yeah I'm taking that with just a tiny pinch of salt :smile:
I like EXORCIST 2 and I'd actually prefer to re-watch it than the original, even though the first film is clearly a better movie. But I totally understand why some people hate it. It's a goofy B-movie sequel to a serious, awards-caliber film.
Quote from: claws on April 21, 2025, 03:25:30 PM^ A boring success, or an interesting failure? :wink:
My favorite Part 2 story:
QuoteWilliam Friedkin, director of the first film, told a story, recalled to by a Warner Bros. executive, at the Chicago Critics Film Festival in April 2013. Studio heads came to the sneak preview of "Exorcist II" in a limo, and told the drivers to go get fast food. They entered the auditorium, and within 10 minutes into the film, an audience member stood up, glanced into the crowd, and proclaimed: "The people who made this piece of s**t are in this room!" 10 or 12 other audience members gathered to find the executives. The heads rushed out of the theater and realized that there were no cars to make their escape. They were subsequently chased down the street by a group of angry audience members.
😳😂😅😀😄😃
Quote from: M.10rda on April 20, 2025, 08:14:15 AMI elected to watch the first TWILIGHT again w/ Madame a few years ago. It had a real director who almost makes it seem like a real movie in spite of the goofy and problematic concept, and in spite of Stewart's willfully obtuse performance. Then Madame proceeded to watch all the rest of the movies, and trust me, they progressively justify the bad reputation to increasingly larger degrees!
I've never read the book myself, but from what I've heard it's a minor miracle they managed to make any kind of movie out of it.
Quote from: Criswell on May 02, 2025, 08:22:14 AMI've never read the book myself, but from what I've heard it's a minor miracle they managed to make any kind of movie out of it.
I think part of the credit for it turning out even nearly as decent as it did, was that the guy who played Edward said he actually hated the character so he tried to play him as a guy that just openly hated himself.
Quote from: chainsaw midget on May 03, 2025, 07:04:55 AMQuote from: Criswell on May 02, 2025, 08:22:14 AMI've never read the book myself, but from what I've heard it's a minor miracle they managed to make any kind of movie out of it.
I think part of the credit for it turning out even nearly as decent as it did, was that the guy who played Edward said he actually hated the character so he tried to play him as a guy that just openly hated himself.
I find it hilarious that you refer to Robert Pattinson as "the guy who played Edward." :bouncegiggle:
I think it does help a lot that Robert Pattinson turned into a pretty good actor or was doing his best with what he had to work with in Twilight. I also think a lot of the hate around those was just people like to hate things that are popular with women. They're not good, but they're not the worst thing that's ever happened to cinema.
BRIDE OF THE MONSTER (1055)
Because it's Ed Wood- it's actually not only coherent, but has a great job by Bela Lugosi. To put it down there with PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE (1958) is unfair. Plan Nine is funny in a BAD movie way- but I thought BRIDE OF THE MONSTER is Z-budget cinema milestone. it's actually pretty excellant. Tor Johnson and Bela just before he checked himself into rehab. For a junkie, he killed it.
Of course I find Bela Lugosi the best actor of all time, so file that somewhere.
I feel like the most important thing I've learned in my journeys through the bizarre cinema of the world is the fact Ed Wood is nowhere near one of the worst directors of all time.
Batman and Robin. Was it great? No. Was it awful? No.
Quote from: HappyGilmore on May 04, 2025, 10:37:14 AMBatman and Robin. Was it great? No. Was it awful? No.
I liked it and Exorcist 2 The Hairstyle too. 😎
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Heavens_gate_post.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Exorcist2poster.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/ExorcistBelieverPoster.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Superman_iv.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Glitter_Movie_Poster.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Psycho_3_poster.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Psycho_ii.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Halloween_III_Season_of_the_Witch_film_poster.jpg)
I think PSYCHO II is pretty great.
PSYCHO III kind of ruins everything that worked about PSYCHO II.......
I believe most are ok with Psycho II. It's Psycho III the majority seems to have issues with.
PSYCHO 2 isn't a 'bad' movie, but coming off the back of one of the most revolutionary films of all time it feels kind of lame to me. like they brought it back for no reason. made Norman way less mysterious and edgy.
strangely I don't have the same issues with JAWS 2 , which I guess could be accused of the same things. I think JAWS 2 is about as good a sequel to the original as could be reasonably expected
I must be the only person on earth who liked HIGHLANDER 2 THE QUICKENING. 😊
Quote from: Trevor on May 05, 2025, 10:20:08 AMI must be the only person on earth who liked HIGHLANDER 2 THE QUICKENING. 😊
in a so-bad-it's-good way or a genuine way?
I thought it was entertainingly crap and I was absolutely creasing at some of the stuff Sean Connery was made to say for his lines. proper "he just said what!?" stuff... but I totally get why it has its reputation
Quote from: zombie no.one on May 05, 2025, 10:28:21 AMQuote from: Trevor on May 05, 2025, 10:20:08 AMI must be the only person on earth who liked HIGHLANDER 2 THE QUICKENING. 😊
in a so-bad-it's-good way or a genuine way?
I thought it was entertainingly crap and I was absolutely creasing at some of the stuff Sean Connery was made to say for his lines. proper "he just said what!?" stuff... but I totally get why it has its reputation
So bad it's good I think.
Sir Sean's appearance during that Hamlet performance 😳😅🤣😂😆😀
yeah regardless of whether we personally like the movie, it's easy to see why it's considered a disaster zone.
this thread is more for movies where you can't get your head round why they're so reviled...
Quote from: bob on May 04, 2025, 06:19:42 PM(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Heavens_gate_post.jpg)
I could probably tell you why I hated it so much if I could stay awake through more than 5 or 10 minutes of it.
Quote from: bob on May 04, 2025, 06:19:42 PM(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Glitter_Movie_Poster.png)
Haven't seen it, but I would be shocked if it had any redeeming value.
I haven't seen HEAVEN'S GATE, but I've seen DEER HUNTER. Eventually it gives us some of the best acting of Christopher Walken's career or anyone else's career, but it's after at least 75 of the slowest minutes I've ever endured, and I watch long Russian movies. So your reservations on HG are received, Rev!
Quote from: M.10rda on May 05, 2025, 02:32:54 PMI haven't seen HEAVEN'S GATE, but I've seen DEER HUNTER. Eventually it gives us some of the best acting of Christopher Walken's career or anyone else's career, but it's after at least 75 of the slowest minutes I've ever endured, and I watch long Russian movies. So your reservations on HG are received, Rev!
I actually have watched HG all the way through--I've watched every single movie I've ever started all the way through--and it never gets good. Or at least, that's the way I remember it. Now, I've never seen the director's cut, but it's actually LONGER--and how could you make a bad movie a good movie by making it longer?
The one opening I'll leave it is that I saw it in my 20s so it's possible I'd like it better now. I hated BLOW UP the first time I saw it, but after a rewatch decades later, I decided it was OK.
I think Highlander 2 is a good movie.
It's just a horrible sequel. If you ignore it's connection to the first one and don't try to figure out how they fit together, I think it's a lot of fun.
Quote from: Rev. Powell on May 05, 2025, 03:21:49 PMhow could you make a bad movie a good movie by making it longer?
That's a good question and I'm racking my brain trying to think of an example. Maybe Brazil? Perhaps an unfair example, as it's really like they took a good movie and edited it down and rearranged it into a not so good shorter movie.
Regarding HEAVEN'S GATE: it was released to cinemas in Zimbabwe in 1981 and my local cinema held a premiere screening. My folks were invited and they told me not to stay up as it was a school night.
When they got home, I woke up, wanting to know how it was. I clearly remember Dad saying that he didn't understand it at all and it seemed like someone had gone through the print with scissors, cutting scenes out anywhere and Mom agreed.
I went to see it on the Saturday and couldn't understand it myself until years later when I read former United Artists exec Stephen Bach's book FINAL CUT on it and realized that the film's original cut ran 5 hours 25 minutes. :buggedout: :buggedout:
I have the 3 hours 39-minute version on DVD which cost me ZAR50: I think I paid ZAR49.99 too much. :wink:
HEAVEN'S GATE is a depiction of massive ego run rampant and neophyte executives being too scared for their jobs to tell a double Oscar winning filmmaker to stop pursuing perfection and just finish the bleeping film.
They should have shut it down when they realized that Cimino had fallen far behind his schedule, but they didn't.
The result was United Artists collapsed, MGM bought what was left, turning it into MGM/UA and a promising director's career was delivered a death blow. Sad, really.
Quote from: zombie no.one on May 05, 2025, 07:33:32 AMstrangely I don't have the same issues with JAWS 2
or Exorcist II :wink:
Quote from: claws on May 06, 2025, 08:33:24 AMQuote from: zombie no.one on May 05, 2025, 07:33:32 AMstrangely I don't have the same issues with JAWS 2
or Exorcist II :wink:
haha, well like I said earlier in the thread I'm kind of 'half and half' on that one... in the context of the franchise I understand the scorn.
I get why people didn't like it-but I've really come to appreciate Jupiter's Ascending more over the years. Better to be overly ambitious and fail, then be bland and boring.
Until I discovered the internet, I was completely mystified by how many people hated Mad Max...
Quote from: LilCerberus on May 18, 2025, 09:02:17 PMUntil I discovered the internet, I was completely mystified by how many people hated Mad Max...
hmm, need more info... do you mean the internet solved that mystery for you?
I never met anyone who disliked Mad Max. Now, Beyond Thunderdome is a different story... but I like them all, a lot.
Quote from: WingedSerpent on May 18, 2025, 08:51:26 PMI get why people didn't like it-but I've really come to appreciate Jupiter's Ascending more over the years. Better to be overly ambitious and fail, then be bland and boring.
I liked that in all its glorious silliness
Quote from: Rev. Powell on May 19, 2025, 08:00:48 AMI never met anyone who disliked Mad Max. Now, Beyond Thunderdome is a different story... but I like them all, a lot.
I didn't like the first one when I was... 10. I'd seen ROAD WARRIOR first and was naive to expect that the original was going to top the sequel. It's also not a film made to please 10 year olds!