Okay, there's that flap about the pederast overtones in Jeepers Creepers and some believe a scene in Saving Private Ryan symbolizes America's blind eye towards the holocaust. Has anyone noticed other possible messages? I've spotted a candidate:
Everyone knows about the social satire inherent in Romero's dead films, but here's one I haven't heard of anyone else picking up on- when the zombie girl kills her mother in NOTLD. The girl has become a member of this new society, and her mother is a member of the old, a subserviant wife who dares not question her husband. It seems to me that maybe that is supposed to be a metaphor for feminism, with the girl slaying her mother, and her ways, to make way for the new world.
About NOTLD, it may be very possible. Romero has often denied that he had introduced on purpose social issues into his movie, but he also said "It was 1968 and everybody had a message." Recently I have been reading his script on "Day of the dead" and have been surprised of how many social liberal ideas it contains.
About other movies with hidden contents, I mentioned a long time ago that I believe "Species" to be a film about AIDS. Not only we have an alien deadly lifeform, but it is also named after acronyms (SIL) and kills those who look for fast sex.
Also heard many movies produced during Vietnam war offered methaphorical visins of the conflict, such as "The Sand Peebles" or "Little Big Man".
That interpretation of NOTLD is actually an old standard; all through the seventies, every film critic in the world picked apart NOTLD for male/female messages, race relation messages, failure-of-authority messages, dissolution-of-the-nuclear-family messages, male-supremacy messages... You don't see much of that in recent reviews because, frankly, it's a burned-out arena. (You'll never see a review of the original NOTLD on my site, for example, because I honestly don't think I can contribute to what everyone else has said.)
Nathan
Cronenberg's FLY remake can definitely be seen as a metaphor for AIDS, though since disease is a common theme with him I'm not sure if it's necessarily AIDS or just any catastrophic disease. But when the film was being made, AIDS was a major topic.
I think it's more interesting when the filmmaker isn't really aware of these "hidden meanings."
I had to have it pointed out to me that Alien (the first) is partly a metaphor about rape-- which is why it was so unnerving.
Throw me in the subject of those you need to tell that it was about rape...
I can see loosely how Alien has things about rape, but please go into detail...
I think it's more interesting when the filmmaker isn't really aware of these "hidden meanings."
I think that really means that the 'hidden meaning" is therefore in the head of reviewer rather than the movie itself.
Along the lines of the Alien series, I always thought Aliens was about Vietnam. A bunch of Marine grunts are sent into an unfamiliar habitat by money-grubbing bigwigs to fight enemies they know little about. And I don't even have to mention the perallel between the queen alien and Ho Chi Min, having as he did a large eggsac and a razor-sharp tail.
Sorry if I'm kind of changing the topic again,but I just had to say,I think hollywood is brainwashing our kids. young guys are becoming immune to nudity. I think this is going to cause them to grow up to be a lot more perverted then past generations. I'm only in my late 20's,but I can see how things have changed. when I was a kid,I would have got a thrill watching the ladies fruit of the loom ads,but you wouldn't see stuff on tv like that back then. about a year ago,I lived on a college campus,girl's don't think it's a big deal struting around in their bra and panties in front of strange guys,as they see it,as long as their nipples and crack of their crotch is covered "nobody can see anything. Why do they think this,because they see all the actresses doing this. I know guys love this,but what used to be a cheap thrill,barely even turns younger guys heads now. I remember when many famous chicks wouldn't even pose nude,they got jobs because of their acting talent. don't get me wrong,I love nude girls as much as the next guy,I just think there's place for it and it's not on network tv or in movies made to attract 13 year olds. I just think thet if sex isn't a little taboo,people won't apreciate it as much. I'll shut up and not go on about this,but I also think all the sick humor and violence also influence our kids also. The action heros of today don't have values like they used too. when I first saw "the warriors",I walked around for months with a baseball bat thinking I was the main character "swan" in the film,luckily I didn't have to hit anyone with it. kids these days probably think they're the characters Vin Diesel plays,I wonder if any have tried to parachute out of a car after they drive it off a bridge. James Bond may have done something like this in an attempt to lose the bad guys and save his life,but "Xander Cage" steals a car and does it just for fun. I still love watching this stuff,I just wonder what effect it will have on the world?
Actually, I think the sex comedies of today, such as they are, are way more tame than the ones during the eighties, at least when it comes to showing nudity.
But you might just be talking about the way people dress in videos, on awards shows, etc...never mind.
Well, the whole movie was about avoiding/fighting this creature that attacks you, shoves this thing inside you (against your will), where another creature is created inside you. . .
The movie is effective because it pricks that primal, subconscious, fear of rape.
Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> I think that really means that the 'hidden meaning" is
> therefore in the head of reviewer rather than the movie itself.
>
Not at all. People who put their heart and soul into a work often reveal more about themselves than they intend; the themes which they fixate on are often driven by desires, fears, etc., that they had no conscious intention of putting into the text.
Romero has said openly that NOTLD is about communication and its breakdown -- but that doesn't mean that you can't also draw perfectly valid interpretations of intergenerational strife, breakdown of authority, etc. from the film; these were, after all, overpowering concerns at the time it was made, and like cigarette smoke that the smoker can no longer smell, it still seeps into his possessions. (I haven't included any racial overtones because the part of Ben wasn't "written black"; Duane Jones was cast after the script was written.)
As another example, Tolkien widely denied that the Lord of the Rings was "about" WW2 -- but the whole thing is overflowing with parallels to that war (and the previous one) which Tolkien had lived through, most specifically in ideas about how no matter how one fights, the brutality of the conflict will forever prevent a return to the status quo. LotR may not have consciously been ABOUT WW2, but Tolkien's wartime experiences, and his observations of the aftermath on his pastoral childhood home, inform every page.
Nathan
Not at all. People who put their heart and soul into a work often reveal more about themselves than they intend; the themes which they fixate on are often driven by desires, fears, etc., that they had no conscious intention of putting into the text.
That's true if somehow the divined meaning relates back to the author. For example, relating "Alien" back to a fear of rape would only really make sense if the original writer was a woman, and still doesn't explain why the movie is so effective for men as well. I would hesitate to reverse engineer from that "hidden meaning" back into an opinion or judgement on the life or mental state of the author
As another example, Tolkien widely denied that the Lord of the Rings was "about" WW2 -- but the whole thing is overflowing with parallels to that war
I would say that that is more in the eyes of the reader than the writer. Remember, Tolkien was also a strong Christian and many people read into his stories a lot of metaphors to Christianity, especially in the character of Gandalf representing Christ. Although I'm a Christian myself, I don't really see that at all. I think that's more wishful thinking on the people who want the story to mean and say more than it was intended too. You could say that there are a lot of parallels to a *lot* of things in LotR. Tolkien was a professor of mythology, and the parallels between LotR to certain European mythologies is stronger than the parallels to WW2. I think it flows the other way, WW2 was almost like an epic myth in the scope of the battle in good verse evil where evil can be identified to a single person. That Tolkien was writing a story based on mythology at a time when a living epic was being played out doesn't mean that his story is about that real-life epic
Sorry, Tolkien wasn't a professor of Mythology but of languages.
I think there is a difference between saying "a story was influenced by the writers experience in..." and "a story is about..."
I think both points are vaild. Some criticism says more about how the critic perceives the material than the material says about the artist. However an artist's "body of work" will reveal a propensity towards a certain approach to a given material (i.e. Cronenberg, Hitchcock, Faulkner, etc).
Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> Not at all. People who put their heart and soul into a
> work often reveal more about themselves than they intend; the
> themes which they fixate on are often driven by desires,
> fears, etc., that they had no conscious intention of putting
> into the text.
>
> That's true if somehow the divined meaning relates back to
> the author. For example, relating "Alien" back to a fear of
> rape would only really make sense if the original writer was
> a woman, and still doesn't explain why the movie is so
> effective for men as well. I would hesitate to reverse
> engineer from that "hidden meaning" back into an opinion or
> judgement on the life or mental state of the author
Usually I put myself in the position of the people in the movie, and seeing the men "raped" in that was probably what (subconciously) scared me. The theory isn't mine; being 14, I wasn't aware of a lot of subconsious things, but I think it does explain why I was so freaked out; there wasn't a monster going to kill you who might be around that corner, but a monster who was going to make you her b***h.
I don't go around thinking or fearing being raped (probably it is different for women) but if the scenario is presented to me, the idea does pop into my brain.
I do have to disagree with the notion that a fear of rape only makes sense if the writer is a woman. A good writer should be able to transcend boundaries if he (or she) has a good imagination. How many directors have actually come across zombies? One, two?
As for Tolkien, I'm sure that the Hobbit was written before WWII. I agree with what you said
Actually, I once read a biography of Tolkien, and much of LOTR's themes were based on the industrial revolution in England. Tolkien himself grew up in an area much like the Shire, with rolling hills and pastures. Then as industrial factories creeped into the countryside large smokestacks were erected and the ground was burned black, exactly the thing the hobbits are afraid Sauron would do. In the end his goal was to create a mythology for England, but some other ideas crept in there as well.
On a related note, C.S. Lewis had dinner with Tolkien one evening and was inspired to pen the Chronicles Of Narnia,, which I'm sure you're all aware is a metaphor for Christianity.
On a related note, C.S. Lewis had dinner with Tolkien one evening and was inspired to pen the Chronicles Of Narnia,, which I'm sure you're all aware is a metaphor for Christianity.
C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien were good friends and members of a small group of scholars together called the Inklings. Lewis was very encouraging of Tolkien and Tolkien would often bring his work on the books to Inkling get togethers and read it aloud and get feedback from the others. I can't remember which direction it went, but one of the two had a strong hand in the others conversion to Christianity. Tolkien was far more resistant to using allegory that Lewis was; which is why, although the Silmalrillion, and perhaps LotR have some echoes of Christian thought, they are not nearly as blatant as either the Lewis' Narnia stories or his sci-fi trilogy
i think it does a better job of pricking that primal, subconscious, fear of some animal with big ass teeth ripping you apart
Kind of like Jaws did, but in outer space.
Although the Alien does look a tad phallic in the cranial department, though I doubt I could call it a dickhead to its face and live.
From IMDB Trivia on this movie:
Conceptual artist H.R. Giger's designs were changed several times because of their blatant sexuality.
It was my understanding that the tops of the eggs looked too much like a vagina. A face hugger I can live with....
Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> That's true if somehow the divined meaning relates back to
> the author. For example, relating "Alien" back to a fear of
> rape would only really make sense if the original writer was
> a woman, and still doesn't explain why the movie is so
> effective for men as well. I would hesitate to reverse
> engineer from that "hidden meaning" back into an opinion or
> judgement on the life or mental state of the author
I dislike the term "hidden meaning," but look at Alien this way:
Let's say that there are parallels to the rape experience. Whether or not it was an intentional symbolism, the movie works so well because the correspondence is there -- and men, who normally don't have that fear in their lives, react so strongly because this IS a movie in which a man is a victim of a rape-like experience. Whether or not it's intentional, the parallel is one of the things that makes the movie effective.
> I would say that that is more in the eyes of the reader than
> the writer. Remember, Tolkien was also a strong Christian
> and many people read into his stories a lot of metaphors to
> Christianity, especially in the character of Gandalf
> representing Christ. Although I'm a Christian myself, I
> don't really see that at all. I think that's more wishful
> thinking on the people who want the story to mean and say
> more than it was intended too. You could say that there are
> a lot of parallels to a *lot* of things in LotR. Tolkien was
> a professor of mythology, and the parallels between LotR to
> certain European mythologies is stronger than the parallels
> to WW2. I think it flows the other way, WW2 was almost like
> an epic myth in the scope of the battle in good verse evil
> where evil can be identified to a single person. That
> Tolkien was writing a story based on mythology at a time when
> a living epic was being played out doesn't mean that his
> story is about that real-life epic
Yes, but I think you're misunderstanding me. Tolkien didn't intend to write a novel about WW2, but his outlook and imagination were so informed by his wartime experiences (as well as his perception of industrialization destroying the idyllic English countryside) that parallels couldn't help but pop up.
And yes, there *are* parallels to a lot of things in the LotR; it's a big-ass novel, and there's room for lots of stuff, and being a mythology professor I'm sure Tolkien would agree that parallels and recurring themes are part of what tie mythologies together. Although the book is expressly NOT a Christian allegory per se (just ask all the fanatical fundies who decry it as a Satanic influence), ideas in it are informed by Christian mythology: death and rebirth, an apocalyptic battle against evil personified, etc. But that's just another flavor in the pot, along with the obvious Celtic mythologies, the characteristically British obsession with former golden ages (inculcated, I presume, by the status afforded Roman ruins in the centuries after the Roman withdrawal), etc.
Nathan
Lewis was the convert, under Tolkien's tutelage, and thought that his new-found faith was so incredible that he intentionally used his children's books, along with several nonfiction books, to teach Christian ideas.
Nathan