When does a movie/tv show go bad? Is it the language, Bad acting, Bad plot, or Bad writing?
I got to thinking about this because I was watching "ER" and they used curse words in every other sentence. I believe you can write a story/movie without all the curse words.
"Scary Movie" was bad because it had a bad plot and bad writing!
So you are starting to think that ER has finally jumped the shark?
http://www.jumptheshark.com/
It's when aaron spelling produces or it airs on WB ;-)
Btw ER doesn't user more curse words than other shows. It's a "mature" show, so it has mature content. I think they did have the first airing of the word "s**t" last season when one of the docs died. (yeah i'm a huge fan of the show.) But they do work in an ER, and try to emulate real life situations. Young kids shouldn't be up that late anyhow watching that kind of show. And i don't think swearing is the downfall of civilization so much as watching "The Bachelor"
Babydoll wrote:
>
> When does a movie/tv show go bad? Is it the language, Bad
> acting, Bad plot, or Bad writing?
>
I think it varies - some shows benefit from a salty tongue or racy edge, but others do it simply to shock and get attention - which always leads to failure, once you get someone's attention you need to maintain it. Since there is no real thought put into the shows that copy the attention grabbing stuff without putting any thought into why the trend setting show is making it big. Some shows (the Jay Mohr sitcom Action comes to mind) make a decent attempt but just don't catch on.
> I got to thinking about this because I was watching "ER" and
> they used curse words in every other sentence. I believe
> you can write a story/movie without all the curse words.
>
True, you don't need the foul language unless it serves the story or character in some why (DePalma's Scarface seems to just like saying the f-word a lot in a naughty boy waY while Quentin Tarantino's scripts can turn it into poetry, go figure).
It's a "mature" show, so it has mature content.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I've been working in professional environments for a long time and I don't see as much cussing as you see in a lot of T.V shows and movies. Especially not in professional context and rearely even in a personal context.
I suspect that writers who think that 'mature' means 'cussing' really don't know what maturity is about.
Different shows jump the shark (go bad) for different reasons. Some of the usual reasons:
1) A key cast member leaves (90210 without Brenda or Dylan? Yeah, right! I also thought Winchester was a poor poor substitute for Frank Burns on MASH);
2) Characters get so overdeveloped they lose their appeal (case in point, Fonzie the high school teaching soda shop owner? The guy in the Wedding Singer was right. Nobody wants to see a 40 year old Fonzie picking up high school girls);
3) Ted McGinley enters the cast (Love Boat, Happy Days, Married With Children);
4) The romantic tension bit gets old (does anyone CARE anymore if Niles and Daphne get together??? Cheers actually wore one romantic tension out (Diane) and started a second (Rebecca). And why on Earth isn't America sick of the pathetic Ross-Raechel saga yet???)
5) Sometimes the idea has just run its course... Seinfeld saw this coming and headed it off.
6) Sometimes the idea seemed real great... but it just wasn't one on which you could base a decade long show (Parker Lewis Can't Lose comes to mind).
Lots of people say that introducing little kids will kill a show, but I think that's just a gimmick thrown in because of one of the above problems. The reason the Simpsons is still so funny is because they are aware of all the pitfalls and can both avoid them and scoff at them directly.
That and the Simpsons doesn't have to deal with #1. Dan Castelanetta isn't going to run off and start a movie career and the show isn't so time consuming. You only lose people when someone dies, like Phil Hartman (Troy MacClure, Lionel Hutz)... DAMN YOU MRS. HARTMAN!
Dano writes:
"I also thought Winchester was a poor poor substitute for Frank Burns on MASH"
I can't agree with that. Winchester was an actual character, who could change and grow. He also acted as a better opponet for Hawkeye and Hunnicut.
Burns was Burns was Burns. He grew quite tiresome, and really never was a challenge.
Same thing with Blake's leaving. Potter was a better character
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Cullen, who can't stand the earlier shows, but rather likes the later ones
Cullen wrote: I can't agree with that. Winchester was an actual character, who could change and grow. He also acted as a better opponet for Hawkeye and Hunnicut.
***** I cheerfully concede all those points. But the bottom line (for me) is that Frank Burns made me laugh much much harder.
Dano writes:
" I cheerfully concede all those points. But the bottom line (for me) is that Frank Burns made me laugh much much harder."
Can't argue with that. Burns just didn't work for me.
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Actually, the first use of "s**t" was on Chicago Hope's last season, in a pathetic attempt to boost ratings, marvelously parodied on South Park when they said "s**t" 163 time in one half-hour. I'm not really bothered by cursing except when I'd watch an R-rated film with my mother in the room, hearing things like, "They sure used that word enough,". But I can tell when it's overused. Take The Sopranos. It's like the writers said, "Hey, we're on HBO! We can say f**k, so let's use it seven or eight times on every single script page!".
What really turns on my red alert that a show is going downhill is a wedding or pregnancy (If televison is to be believed 87% of all births are twins). And if there is a pregnancy the kid's name is Alex (who decreed that all young boys in TV/Movies have to be named Alex? It's really annoying).
Five words: Pinky, ELMYRA, and the Brain.
It was such a great little show: a classic concept, great interaction between the characters, some nice parody episodes (like when Brain had a surf-off with Frankie and Annette clones)... why, oh, why did they feel they needed to throw the most obnoxious Tiny Toon into the mix? Only one way it could go from there: Straight over the shark.
>>I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I've been working in professional environments for a long time and I don't see as much cussing as you see in a lot of T.V shows and movies. Especially not in professional context and rearely even in a personal context.<<
They don't swear left and right on ER, in fact the only time you see it is with some irate patients. Anyhow I know a nurse who works in the ER..it IS like that. In fact it's worse. It tries to portray a certain amount of realism...but not too much realism because i don't think audiences could handle that.
Back on topic = i know one way a show goes bad. When a character is replaced by another actor (ie: the great Darren switch on Bewitched). AND I hate when comedies take a turn somewhere around season 2 and try to get too much serious dramatic material in there, someone gets pregnant or is diagnosed with cancer or something and tries to make it into a kleenex fest. Seinfeld never went that way. Nothing was sacred on that show..thank God. ;-)
Pinky, Elmyra...and the Brain? Ewwww....shark had a belly full then. Dumb move. Oh....heard Harvy Birdman is getting new ephisodes. Cool! Hope Adult Swim don't go shark jumping anytime soon.
Hey I like Pinky and the Brain. I miss that show.
They don't swear left and right on ER,
I wasn't speaking of ER, per se, just movies and t.v. shows that seem to throw in cussing as a sign of 'maturity' or something.
In my observation, cussing in conversation actually seems to be limited to a fairly small age group; teens and early adults. Teens seem to do it as an attempt to seem 'adult like' and maybe a bit as rebellion (since it's 'forbiden' by social mores) and young adults do it because, well...no there adults and there allowed. As they get older, though, most people seem to realize that it's rather silly and makes them look immature rather than more mature so it tapers off.
I didn't imply by any means that cursing makes a program "mature", only that it (ER in particular) is for mature (adult) audiences, not children. I think in some instances swearing is overused for effect. I don't mind dramas using it on tv but i kind of cringe when i hear ALOT of it on sitcoms that come on at earlier hours.
When I cuss, it's either a slip, I'm quoting someone, I'm imitating someone p**sed off, or I'm p**sed off. And sometimes it jst sounds like the only right word to use.