About once a year I need to blow my steam on this board and write about people who I feel are overrated. Some examples of the past have been Quentin Tarrantino, Tobey MacGuire, Halle Berry, and Julia Roberts. Here is my list for this year, if you will induldge me.
M. Night Shyamalan - Not only is he overrated, but he is an egotistical director with nothing to back it up. First, "Night" is not in his real name anywhere, it is a nickname he made up for himself, now that is real stupid. Secondly, Sixth Sense was merely decent, showing promise, and sufficiently creepy. In each of his subsequent movies (I have not seen the Village, but the critics tore it up), they have gone steadilyy downhill, with Signs being awful, and Unbreakable being cheesy. He does get the most out of his actors, but that is about the only commendable thing he has ever done.
Tim Burton - Don't get me wrong I am not saying he is a bad director, merely overrated. I would submit that Burton has only made 3 really good movies, Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, and Big Fish. But beyond this, he is really just a commonplace actor. He found one unique style, always highlighted by green and blue tones and uses it in all of his movies. Almost every one of his movies look exactly the same. His characters really tend not to show emotion all that often. In fact he had very little to do with Nightmare Before Christmas besides production, yet continually gets all of the credit from what I feel, could have been a much better film. Lets not even talk about his re make of Planet of the Apes.
Christian Bale - Now Mr. Bale has been in two terrible movies - Shaft and Reign of Fire, and has also been in the worst movie I have ever seen, American Psycho. I hear he is good in Equilibrium, but haved not yet been able to see this film. However, women seem to think he is hot, and men seem to think he is talented. Give me Edward Norton any time, or at least an actor who doesnt have something to prove as the next Batman.
Dave Matthews Band - really, he is overrated. As far as classical musicians go, he has no more talent than most college students, and as a singer, well, even he admitted he can't sing. WHY do people LOVE this guy? It makes to me, absolutely no sense. I mean if you are really taken away with lyrics just listen to rap, which has mastered the art of great lyrics more so than any other musical genre ever has.
Thats all for now, feel free to add your own additions as you will.
I agree with you about Dave Matthews Band.
I have never liked them.
Except for their breakout single in 1994, "What Would You Say".
I liked that song.
Tim Burton: I haven't seen Big Fish yet. Edward Scissorhands - eh. A litttle manipulative. Beetlejuice - Crap. Pee-Wee's Big Adventure - True masterpiece the reknown of which will resound through the ages. Everything else he did - Oh, let's put big candy canes in the background, it'll be all dark, ironic, and trippy. If it wasn't for Pee-Wee I'd say he was no real director at all, merely an art director, like HR Gieger.
After Unbreakable, I promised myself not to watch another of his movies unless it was free.
Burton's "Big Fish" just made me want to watch "Amelie" again. Not a horrible movie, but it's been done before and better.
Christian Bale, can't knock "American Psycho" cause the merits of Heuy Lewis and the news speech is great. Haven't seen "reign of fire" but the one guy who likes everything hated it, and I took that as a sign. In "Equillibrium" he plays emotionless very well, and that's not a compliment.
I remember riding around with a friend in '92 and he put in a Dave Matthews tape he had picked up from a buddy. I was sitting there listening to it, thinking it how bad it was. Then a year later it's on the radio. Go figure....
I agree with Shymalan, to a degree. Signs and Unbreakable are two films I really enjoyed, with Sixth Sense being adequete but nothing special. Village isn't even out here yet so I'll wait for that one.
I just found Unbreakable to be a very good film, it's one of my favourites, and Signs, whilst plot-wise a bit stupid, I thought it was quite good.
Maybe it's a stylistic thing: I love what he does technically, and maybe I'm not paying enough attention to plot.
Tim Burton: How can you hate the man who made Batman cool?! :-P I enjoy most of his work, even if it happens to be called Planet of the Apes, but I must admit he's been a bit lack lustre lately [haven't seen Big Fish though, which isn't meant to be horrible]
Christian Bale: Equilibrium was one of my surprise dvd's I rented recently without any preknowledge and I really enjoyed it. I agree that Reign of Fire and Shaft were horrible, but I have high hopes for Batman, and I thouroughly enjoyed American Psycho.
Haven't really listened to Dave Matthews, so no real comments here either way.
Night - Not a big fan of his. Signs was so inanely awful that it made my eyes bleed.
Burton - I'm a big fan of Burton. Sure he's not an amazing director, but his films end up being pretty fun and interesting.
Christian Bale - I jumped for joy when hearing he would be the Batman. I absolutely loved American Psycho and regard it as one of the best films I own. He is an extremely talented actor, and one of the best breakout stars of the late 90s.
Dave Matthews - I liked their first two big studio releases. Under The Table And Dreaming and Crash are both great albums if you are into the whole "jam" thing. See I know that a lot of people don't like them because they set theirselves to one type of music. I guess I'm just not that way. I'll switch from listening to Big Tymers to Widespread Panic to Hepcat. It's pretty erratic if you are in a car with me and I'm controlling the stereo.
Regarding Burton, I did like Sleepy Hollow, once I got over the fact that it has nothing to do with the legend. But you are right, he needs to use more than just blue & green.
Shyamalan - Agreed, he's pretty pretentious... but I think a lot of his ego comes from having it overinflated by genuflecting critics and fans.
Burton - Batman was awesome, I'm surprised you didn't give him credit for that. I also liked Sleepy Hollow... but generally I find his stuff to be kind of cut from the same cloth. If you're in the mood for dark and quirky, great... otherwise, yawn.
Dave Matthews Band - THANK YOU!! Good Lord I am sick of their uninspired boring music, but EVERYONE I know thinks they're the greatest band ever.
My addition to your list:
THE BEATLES. Their early stuff was passable jingle-pop type of stuff. Their later stuff was overblown, pretentious jingle-pop disguised as serious art. They were okay when they were at their best and unlistenable at heir worst. Any five guys with doofy haircuts and English accents could have done the same thing if their timing had been right. They are a classic example of mediocre artists propelled to great heights by marketing and actually believing their own hype (something we now see all too often - see item #1 on Evan3's list).
How do I edit?
Meant "any four guys" obviously.
Beates - the most overrated band in history.
The Beates?
(look at your previous post)
Post Edited (08-20-04 12:04)
I can't believe people give Burton credit for "making Batman cool". So he didn't go with the 60s TV white eyebrows Batman. He didn't invent the character, he just crudely copied the dark knight version of him, and went with the cookie cutter comic book movie plot: He finds out the Joker was the one who killed his parents, and he kills the Joker, thus guaranteeing that the sequels can't possibly work, because THE JOKER is dead! You can't have Batman without the Joker! Oh, but I guess killing a guy makes it all true to the original artist's dark vision .... so kill off a henchy you feeb!!! BTW, not knowing who killed his parents is basically what makes Bruce Wayne Batman, he has to take it out on personifications of the concepts of madness, crime, and evil. Burton's Batman is just some Charles Bronson wannabe with stupid ears on his hat. Also, Burton takes "dark" literally, and tries to deliver a "dark" tone by making everything black and underlighting it. Arrg, it's a metaphor, retard!
Shyamalan is dissapointing, but not as bad as many make him out to be
I love Burton, Planet of the Apes being his only disaster. And it's true that Burton didn't make batman cool, Frank Miller did that, but he has made the best Bat-Films as of yet.
Bale - American Psycho "the worst movie you've ever seen" give me a break and don't be so extreme. If you didn't like it, I can't make you like it, but it's a good movie and can't be the worse you've ever seen. I think Bale is a great actor, and perfect for batman. Whoever it was that criticized Bale for playing a good emotionless character in Equilibruim...explain how that's bad. He's not Keanu Reeves, he can play other characters quite well (you did also mention American Psycho, and I think he pulled out a little emotion in that one ;)
Dave Matthews - Dave Matthews himself is so overrated that it hurts me to think about it. His BAND however, are some are the most talented musicians out there. If you take away Dave...not overrated, with dave....way overrated.
I think I would add George Lucas to that. His early stuff is awesome (original Star Wars trilogy, Indiana Jones Trilogy) and American Graffiti was good. I can't think of a single movie after these that I liked- yet everyone in america bows down to the guy and his new crap movies.
Reece Witherspoon: I don't understand the fascination with her. She isn't that great.
Quentin Tarantino: I know you mentioned him already, but I thought it worthy of an additional post.
Tom Cruise: He was good in Minority Report, but he really hasn't done anything good in a LONG time... yet everything he does turns to gold. I have to mention, though, that I haven't seen "Last Samurai" yet so my opinion may change.
Anyways, just some thoughts.
I forgot to mention a huge one:
MICHAEL MOORE.
I don't want to start another huge thread, I just have to mention him because he is very overrated, in my opinion.
The Last Samurai was good, but it suffers from the desire to portray American capitalist culture as bad vs. the noble & pure Samurai feudal system.
And I can't help but see Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise in his movies.
Can I add Mel Gibson to the list?
The Passion was horrible as most of Mel's work has been lately. He is extremely overrated and I have no idea why people freak out whenever a new film of his comes out.
Agreed on Gibson and I would add Kevin Kostner. I never thought Bull Durham, Field of Dreams or Dances With Wolves were worth the time it took to watch them, and yet that was where his great reputation was built. Fittingly, he crashed hard in more recent years. He is much like Mel Gibson in my opinion. An okay actor who got over rated and began directing crap, both getting Oscars for overblown, preachy historical dramas of questionable intellectual merit. Gibson's crap just hasn't been as spectacularly bad as Kostner's (though the final battle and wedding scenes in The Patriot belie this).
I disagree that Lucas is over-rated for this reason: he's taken his fair share of lumps for everything post Original Trilogy and Raiders. I don't see people "over-rating" the new Star Wars stuff. In fact, I see studio execs wincing as the third one nears release and I see land fills overflowing with plastic Jarjar Binks and Naboo fighters. I also don't think Michael Moore is over-rated. Most people see him and his movies for what they are. He may be over-hyped, but not over-rated.
Good point about Moore. And the sad thing is that makes those morons who do overrate him look really pathetic to everyone who see him and his movies for what they are.
Tarantino reminds me of my hyperactive friend Johnny Hasset -
http://www.geocities.com/dreamtownfilms
There, now people will see his site, it dosen't show up on google for some reason.
agreed about M. Night, basically there's nothing to his movies except for his gimmicky endings, which aren't really that much of a big deal..well to me they're nothing incredible
Requiem for a Dream: I like it but it gets overrated for being the most distrubing film of all time by a lot of people for some reason. I found it just sad rather than disturbing.
Sofia Coppola just for Lost in Translation: Already ranked #140 for top 250 movies in imdb. The movie was nothing special but people think it's brilliant cause it was an indie film. Actually not much was done in the whole movie, it was too simple of a story. "Simplicity through beauty", maybe but I was expecting more other than flashy shots of Japan.
Metalcore: Not sure if you older people here know about it, but metalcore is the latest big thing with metal. All the kids that were nu-metal are now flocking to metalcore cause Killswitch Engage and Lamb of God got acceptance by MTV2's Heabanger's Ball program. Metalcore is actually pretty decent sometimes, but too many generic bands make me grow weary of the sound. And it's really more of the pre-packaing of the music for the conveniance of "shallow spoiled suburban kids trying to p**s of their parents" that I hate.
I have to disagree about the Beatles, regardless of what you think about them, they changed the face of music at the time. It 's a generational thing, if you weren't there then , you don't realize the influence they had at the time.
jga5000 wrote:
> Requiem for a Dream: I like it but it gets overrated for being
> the most distrubing film of all time by a lot of people for
> some reason. I found it just sad rather than disturbing.
I agree with you about Requiem.
While technically well made, it did come off as just sad and left me feeling icky...which I assume was the film's purpose.
> Sofia Coppola just for Lost in Translation: Already ranked #140
> for top 250 movies in imdb. The movie was nothing special but
> people think it's brilliant cause it was an indie film.
> Actually not much was done in the whole movie, it was too
> simple of a story. "Simplicity through beauty", maybe but I was
> expecting more other than flashy shots of Japan.
I must respectfully disagree with you here.
I for one didn't care that it was an indie film, I would've liked it if it were a big studio production. Either way it still would've been great.
You also stated that "not much was done in the whole movie".
No way! There was a lot more going on there than you realize.
What's going on is in the minds. thoughts and conversations of the two main characters Bob Harris and Charlotte.
To quote Ebert in his review he says, "I loved the way Coppola and her actors negotiated the hazards of romance and comedy, taking what little they needed and depending for the rest on the truth of the characters."
So many films today are all about mindless action, super special FX and hardly any character development.
Lost In Translation is a masterpiece of character development.
Maybe you were looking for action or hilarious comedy but obviously this is not an action picture and it is not a hilarious comedy.
It is something altogether different and in my opinion, transcends many films out there.
There are so many people that dislike this film...I am not one of them.
Both Bill Murray and Scarlett Johansson give excellent performances in this film.
Go HERE (http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2003/09/091201.html) to read Roger Ebert's dead-on review of this movie to get a much better idea of what I'm talking about.
Even better, go HERE (http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/ebertandroeper/030908.html) to listen to Ebert and Roeper's thoughts on this movie.
(select Lost In Translation from the list and click on the speaker icon...you must have Windows Media Player 9 to listen to it...if you don't have it, the audio will be all garbled and you'll need to click STOP and then click where it says, "Play MP3" then you'll be able to hear it properly)
Lost in Translation is not overrated in my opinion.
In fact, it's just the opposite.
It's WAY underrated.
Post Edited (08-22-04 01:14)
One actress who is starting to be overrated is Hallie Berry. She is still a good actress, and her emmy for her HBO movie about Dorothy Danage (I think) proves that. But after she got the Oscar for, basically, playing a slut, and now that she did
Crapwoman, I don't think she's worth that much money.
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Bulls**t! I still can't hear you sound off like you gotta pair.
"yet everyone in america bows down to the guy and his new crap movies."
Really? George Lucas seems to be one of the most hated directors out there. He has done some great stuff, it's just what he has done to, for example, Star Wars I, II and probably III, which has inspired such fantastic hatred in many people.
I didn't think Requim for a Dream was overrated, especially since it is going for a pretty cheap price on DVD nowadays, it was disturbing at times, but generally just a bit icky, as previously said. I do still think it is a great film. If you want drug-induced distrurbing film, watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, one film which, in my opinion, is pretty underrated.
Lost in Translation was great, no two ways about it. Despite the fact that not much happened, it engaged my attention the whole way through, and that's a pretty good effort.
"I have to disagree about the Beatles, regardless of what you think about them, they changed the face of music at the time. It 's a generational thing, if you weren't there then , you don't realize the influence they had at the time."
Though I didn't come around until 1970, I don't disagree with what you say here... clearly they were a huge cultural influence. But I think it is only because of their timing. I think being removed from the hysteria allows me to see that the music wasn't all that. It certainly wasn't on a par with the Who or the Stones, or other bands to come out of England later on. The Beatles were just the first, a product of marketing.
Requiem is by far one of my favorite films.
Darren Aronofsky has always blown me away with his films. In this regard, I also feel that his breakout flick "Pi" is EXTREMELY underrated.
As for Lost In Translation, I was slightly disappointed in it.
No Ash, I was not looking for an all out slapstick comedy nor an action flick. I went into the film expecting a slow drama. It ended up being a slow, boring drama. Granted, the film was beautiful but damn it was pretty boring.
I agree with the beatles being overrated. I'm a 70's boy, and they were okay then, but their first stuff is extremely overrated. Lennon on his own was pretty impressive, but I can't stand Paul McCartny
Spoiler ahead for the upcoming Batman movie.
Dave Munger wrote:
>He finds out the Joker was the one who
> killed his parents, and he kills the Joker, thus guaranteeing
> that the sequels can't possibly work, because THE JOKER is
> dead! You can't have Batman without the Joker! Oh, but I guess
> killing a guy makes it all true to the original artist's dark
> vision .... so kill off a henchy you feeb!!! BTW, not knowing
> who killed his parents is basically what makes Bruce Wayne
> Batman, he has to take it out on personifications of the
> concepts of madness, crime, and evil.
That's one thing that always bugged me about that movie. In the original comic story, Bruce's parents were killed by small time thug Joe Chill. Chill never became a big criminal, he just remained a small timer.
Another over-rated thing is the movie Batmobiles. None have seemed as stylish as the 60's George Barris version to me. The styling has gotten worse with each new incarnation. The new one looks just awful IMO.
I agree...the George Barris version is by far superior. I like the Begins version, it reminds me of the DKR batmobile.
Those other bands came out of England LATER ON. Everything since the Beatles has been pretty much ripping them off. Rock would probably sound like Elvis to this day if it wasn't for them. Every time you hear a song with a long pause in the middle, trippy effects, or a guy who's just screaming yet somehow it sounds cool, you thank your lucky Beatles!
"No Ash, I was not looking for an all out slapstick comedy nor an action flick. I went into the film expecting a slow drama. It ended up being a slow, boring drama. Granted, the film was beautiful but damn it was pretty boring."
Yeah, same deal with me except I wasn't bored, more like I didn't feel I got much of a movie. I watched it cause I loved Scarlett in Ghost World (I'm a amateur comic/writer artist myself, good to see indie "comix" turned into films). Also was itnerested in Bill Murray taking a serious sophisticated role.
For me, the film was basically people just wandering around the streets looking at stuff, talking about their little trifles...that's about it. No real plot that tested these people's psychology. I could look deep into the film and get out a lot of sentimental friendship themes, but for me it's not an interesting concept really. My Dinner with Andre was a really slow film with no stylized cinematography, but the concept was what made me appreciate it a lot.
Glad people liked Lost in Translation though.
I disagree about Moore -- I think he's criminally underrated because of his politics. Most of his films take unwieldy, uncinematic subjects and make them entertaining, intriguing, infuriating, etc., simply by the force of some damn good filmmaking. His use of "found" material goes back at least to the 1950s avant-garde. In general, his ability at moviemaking is overshadowed by his role as a polemicist.
Shyamalan-- not a very big fan of his, Sixth sense was alright, but there are parts in the movie that make the plot twist at the end impossible. I really enjoyed signs, not sure what reasons everyone has for hating it so.
Bale--Did not like "American Psycho" But, he did a wonderful job acting in it. "Equilibruim" A great movie, and he did not play an emotionless character all the way through that movie. Watching his transformation was exciting and wonderful.
Dave mathews band -- This is the only band that has his sound, he mixes alternative with a New Orleans backwoods kind of sound. Very interesting and good. Listen to the album with Dave and Tim Reynolds and then say that Dave does not have any more talent than any colege student.
Burton -- He is alright, I liked planet of the apes, but I was not a huge fan of the original either. LOVED Beetlujuice.
All right now...
The Beatloes should be untouchable. They introduced so many things to music including layering, Silence in mid stroke, time signature changes, and god forbid the used more than three chords. Even the "great" bands like Green Day, Coldplay, and the Stones only really use about 3 chords in any given song. Yes they also changed the face of recording in studios but how does that diminish their achievements?
As for Batman, if you compare it to the comic, it isn't really that good. Honestly, I would take Batman Forever any day because it wasnt so ludicrous and honestly came off a lot darker in tone with out being overwhelming. Kevin Smith and Burton got into an argument with the following lines:
Burton: I would never copy your untalented ideas. I create everything myself. I have never even read a comic book in my life.
Smith: That is abundantly apparent to those of us who have seen Batman,
Finally, George Lucas. I am surprised nobody mentioned that he did not actually direct Star Wars episodes 5 and 6. Out of all the Star Wars, number 4 which he directed was the loosest and least quality direction and editing out of them all. He wisely let others direct episodes 5 and 6. Lucas also did NOT direct Raiders of the Lost Ark, Steven Spielburg did. He co wrote Indiana however. So I think he is an OVERrated director and an UNDERrated writer.
barbara streisand
the end
Excellent point Susan. I can't stand her singing, acting, directing, or anything else about her.
Evan, good point about Lucas, overrated as director, underrated as writer.
Lets not forget Willow!
From what I hear, The Empire Strikes Back was pretty much [http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Leigh_Brackett.htm]Leigh Brackett's[/http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Leigh_Brackett.htm] baby. Before that, she was kind of known for Bradburyesque Mars stories. It's the only SW movie that dosn't have pretty much the same ending (big celebration, parade, wedding, medal awarding ceremony), or rehash lots of stuff from A New Hope. Not that there's anything wrong with that, a lot of that stuff is good enough to bear rehashing. I always sort of suspected that every weird subculture since A New Hope has been subconciously attempting to restage the cantina scene.
Evan3 reminds me of why I love Radiohead. They have enough respect for me, the listener, to change chords right in the middle of a song. Thank you, Pink Floyd of the 21st century!
BS should be a comediane, her speaking voice is funny.
Dave Mathews Band is kind of like most of what I hear on the radio, good, but not better than anyone I knew in "college" with a guitar.
The new Planet of the Apes was not as bad as I expected. It was a tall order, and they should probably get points for even trying.
I never heard of Joe Chill (haven't the attention span for comic books) and it kind of goes against my theory, but I like it. Perfect name for a cheap sociopathic thug. In the animated series, which is good enough that I consider it kind of definitive, Batman was so focused on the gun that he didn't even see the guy. In his flashback/nightmares, he just sees a gun hovering in space like the invisible man is holding it. Kind of a political comment there in a way, I think.
>How do I edit?
You have to register.
I kinda disagree with you on the Batmobiles part. The 60's batmobile was ok and a cool design back then. But, I like the batmobile from Batman and Batman Returns just for its simplistic design. And also having twin M-60 sub-machine guns, shields, explosive hubs and the ability to detatch itself to fit through tight alleys doesn't hurt either (I know they don't have a model for that last part). The batmobiles from the last two movies sucked just for being too much flash.
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Bulls**t! I still can't hear you, sound off like you gotta pair
Fair enough man, to each his own. :-)
Post Edited (08-24-04 19:13)
"The Beatles should be untouchable. They introduced so many things to music including layering, Silence in mid stroke, time signature changes, and god forbid the used more than three chords. Even the "great" bands like Green Day, Coldplay, and the Stones only really use about 3 chords in any given song."
Good for you Evan, you are the first person I have ever seen actually provide examples of what the Beatles did musically. Usually when I call them overrated an irate fan will come up with "they pioneered so many things musically." I will then counter with "like what?" and I have ALWAYS been met with a blank stare followed by some mumbling about them being cool. Good for you. I still don't like their music, and I still think their lyrics are a bunch of dime-store philosophical fortune cookie fodder, but I now at least have some understanding (as much as a person with little technical musical background can have) of why some people think they're great.
Yeah- I saw Dave & Tim live in the bay area a few years ago (with a guest appearance by Bob Wier). It was fantastic! My husband and I saw DMB a ton of times, ususally involving some sort of road trip.
Then came the album "Everyday". That is when they officially began to suck IMHO.
Since then, every song I've heard them come out with has been crap. I still love to listen to the old stuff, but I haven't liked anything after "Live at Luther College" came out.
Graaaaaaaaaaaavedigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
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Bulls**t!! I still can't hear you, sound off like you gotta pair
I like the idea of the song "gravedigger" I think going out into an old graveyard and writing a song about how the people might have died is pretty original. But, for some reason I cannot stand that song.
And "Live at Luthor College" is one of my favorite albums to listen to. Right under Tools "Anema" and ummm...alright go ahead and laugh but my second favorite album is John Mayer's 'Room for Squares"
I like them, but I couldn't tell you why. I don't have the musical knowledge; even after five years of trumpet lessons, violin lessons and piano lessons I don't have any musical ability or any ability to dissect what's going on. For me, it just sounds "right".
I'll have to cut you off at Christian Bale. Yes, Shaft and Reign of Fire were terrible, but his performances in both were solid. Also, American Psycho is definitely NOT a terrible movie, considering the parodies of 80's society within it. The book is much better, but the movie is rather truthful to its source. Plus, Bale displays Bateman like I doubt any other person could, as most would probably try to make him seem like a nice guy to everybody that doesn't know he's a serial killer, whereas Bale took the proper way of always displaying Bateman as a conniving prick that is set off by the smallest thing (his face when Paul Allen's business card is better than his is great). He was decent in Equilibrium, but that movie is overrated as hell, considering it's just 1984 with Gun-Fu added in, and a happy ending.