Japanese/HK-productions are often stupid, weird and not funny (in spite of trying their best to be it)
I remeber Takeshi Miike(Myike?)´s movies - ughh, what a boring trash !
Possibly they were throwing the dice for the plot, or were p**sed drunk when having a "brainstorming"-session for the story...
The problem is, as a westerner (american or european) you have no cultural connection i.e adequate understanding to chinese/HK-movies and even less to Japanese movies.
Many Japanese movies are so strange that it is (for me) no fun watching them:
often they have this common:
- you see school girls with their famous jap-school-uniform (i.e. little girls in short skirts). Often, very often there´s a scene where you can see their underwear!!!
(after having seen it 100times this is so f***** up and boring!)
- you see legions of transsexuals,transvestites, hermaphrodites, ladyboys etc.
- the humour is "japanese" - I mean, as a westerner it´s hard to bear all this silly, exaggerated slapstick action and behavior of the protagonists
Good examples for what I mean:
TOKYO DECADENCE (not that bad but weird, weird, weird!)
GUINEA PIG and all that Japanese-gore-nonsense
TAKESHI MIYKE(?)´s movies (all of them!)
Miike does some plot driven stuff (dramas) but yeah most are a bit messy like Ichi and Gozu. Although I liked those movies. Cause they're strange and I like films the more stranger they are.
There's a lot of good Japanese/Hong Kong stuff that is fairly simple though. I was watching Postman Blues the other day, real good drama without humor that's too absurd.
I've heard Guinea Pig is trash even from Asian film fans so I never even bothered seeing them.
My opnion is not, that all eastern/japanese movies are bad.
There are enough good eastern films, like:
many Chackie Chan productions
most of the Bruce-Lee-Stuff
nearly every (newer) Martial-Arts-Movie - especially the Jet-Li-Movies.
What I want to say is that, compared to common western dramas and family films the eastern dramas and family films are more freaky&weird - many things that would disgust the average european/american is absolute normality in Japan:
- in many "normal" japanese movies you see (X-times) school girl underwear
- rapings/pervert actions
- bloody massacers
- often a plot that is so strange you can´t believe it (f.e. Tetsuo - the Iron Man I&II)
yeah it is pretty weird, especially Tetsuo (one of my fav movies btw)
The funny thing actually is Japan has higher conduct in everyday life (even seeing pubic hair is a big deal) so the movies are like a product of their repression. I saw soem article saying Tetsuo was like a message about sexuality in Japan.
Ever heard of the phrase 'fan service'?
That's a common term that I mainly heard in anime which can perhaps be taken here to, in which, despite the plot or situation, the girls show off their big breasts and cleavage, or a character will look up a skirt, or there is some sort of innuendo.
I love japanese and eastern films, not because of 'fan service' [though at times it helps] but because it is so different to the hollywood system [which i am growing to really despise]
Some stuff i don't understand, but i think alot of the material can be picked up eventually.
All in all it's good stuff!!
I'm with Dean. I love Japanese films, as they are a welcome escape from Hollywood. The plots are usually strange, but the films are fun as hell.
Some Examples:
Battle Royale
Battle Royale 2
Versus
Audition
Ichi The Killer
Returner
Wild Zero
Ringu
Ju-On
Oldboy (techincally Korean)
A perfect example is Happiness Of The Katakuris, which I watched yesterday. It's a beautiful, yet strange, drama/comedy/murder musical. It's this type of insanity that makes the films so much fun.
me three. I like japnese movies and since I live in NYC I see alot of them in the movies like Gozu and and Zatochi. and skaboi I think we have the same taste in asian cinema because I own all the ones you mentioned on dvd. I recommed blue spring to you its has battle royale themes it in and very enjoyable.
"I know I know ive been exposed permeant psychoses..
at least the colors are nice"- Aeon Flux
Me too too too! I like a lot of them. As Dean said, I'm getting really (REALLY) p**sed off at Hollywood these days. I mean I love almost every Godzilla movies (Godzilla is my hero!) I love Battle Royale, I love a lot of the cartoons and comic books I love Gamera and I love the Giant Robot vs Giant Monster stuff. It's a frigging flash of freash air from Crapoloid Hollywood! (Lots of other foreign movies are freash air to me as well, also independent stuff is good also and the SUPER rairity when Hollywood does something good)
I have to agree with you Wence. Japanese films do have all the "typical" borderline child pornography laced with obnoxious humor and homo erotic fantasies. Not my bag but hey, "it's cool" Not!
Rich,
Very cool. It's extremely refreshing to find someone else here in the states that has seen OldBoy. Fantastic film.
I don't think it's fair to just say "Japanese movies suck". Look at Kurosawa films- The Seven Samurai, Ikiru, Hidden Fortress, etc- some of the best movies ever made ANYWHERE. Then there's some awesome Japanese horror flicks- Ringu, The Eye, Ju-On.
There are bad movies in EVERY culture... it's no different than saying all American-made movies suck (a lot of them do...). There are good ones and bad.
Just food for thought.
Yeah, genre films can be bizarro in any culture. Look at the Italian horror crop --
But when you do get right down to it, there are films of great majesty & subtlety to be found in any culture as well -- and ESPECIALLY in Japan.
Someone has already mentioned Kurosawa, so I'll just name a few titles of other things I've seen that still blow me away:
Fires on the Plain(1962, or so). I saw this on the big screen in college, and own a very poor bootleg VHS of, but still can't remember the director's name. Shame on me. This is an absolutely riveting study of the dissolution of humanity, set in the Philippines in February, 1945. The Americans have cut the supply lines to the Japanese forces on the Phillippines years ago, and the military units that remain have reached a kind of Zen austerity that approaches theatre of the absurd: Men are sent from one empty building to another, only with different names. The "Infirmary" has no bandages, no medicine, etc. It exists in name only. The soldiers are told to march to the other side of Mindanao, told that relief forces are waiting for them there. There is a scene shot silently in a driving rainstorm wherein we see only the feet of the men passing. There is a corpse. We see one man stop and remove the corpse's boots and leave his own, as the dead man's boots are slightly better. The next man along does the same, leaving his own worn boots and taking the previously rejected ones. And so on, until there is only the ghost of boots left.
Another scene involves an encounter with a wounded soldier reposing like the Buddha beneath a tree on a blasted landscape. I won't give anything away.
There are strong meditations on cannibalism, shame, and what it means to be human. A very deep and involving film.
Shall We Dance, on the other hand, is a funny-silly comedy, but with really sympathetic characters. Very light, but fun and rewarding as well.
Spirited Away. This cartoon resulted in its creator being named a Living National Treasure by the Japanese Government. It was quite popular in America a few years ago, so should be easy to find. Engrossing fantasy that avoids many of the anime cliches & pitfalls mentioned earlier.
So, in conclusion, I really do think that Japan has a lot to offer in the way of filmic distraction, and would think it a shame were you to write them off.
peter johnson/denny crane
You do have a good point, Kory... I stand corrected because I have a special place in my heart for Godzilla and Martial arts films. ; )
I must admit based on the movies I've seen I think Japan must have some of the strangest perverts in the whole world. Ichi, Fudo, Blue Girl, and Legend of the Overfiend all have some really weird eroticism in them. At least to an American anyway.
Legend Of The Overfiend. LOL
I had completely forgotten about that one, Master Blaster. LOTO aka Urisokidoji is an amazing film if only for it's disgusting nature.
Yeah, It makes Wicked City look like Snow White by comparison. I've seen previews for Overfiend sequels, but I've never ran across them. I heard they were'nt very good though. Maybe when I go on my next Anime kick I'll see if I can find them.
Japanese movies aren't cornering the market on wacky and wierd. I recently watched a 'comedy' called sex and zen II which was incredibly wierd [and live action no less] which was Chinese, I think.
I reccommend the first ten minutes of the movie, then just turn it off...
Also, some European movies are just plain off the wall.
Every culture has their good points in cinema. Hong Kong and Japanese cinema just happen to be favourites, but recently I have been getting into Polish films. I watched 'Avalon' the other day, a film by the director of Ghost in the Shell. Yeah its a japanese film, but it was made in Poland, with polish actors and such [only ten of the crew were japanese] It was an excellent film, but the architecture really stuck with me, so now I'm making more of an effort to expand my knowledge of foriegn films.
"Every culture has their good points in cinema" - that´s correct.
HongKong-Martial-Arts are an own category of movies. I love most of them.
IRON MONKEY
CHINESE GHOSTSTORY
CHINESE SWORDSMEN
THAI CHI etc.
these movies are crazy in a "normal" way, I mean, most of hese movies lack pervert sexuality for example.
What makes these movies so good is the excellent exaggeration of the asian martial arts. There are so fast and unnatural fighting scenes that would never occure in a western film. A comparison between old HK-Chacky-Chan-Films and his newer Hollywood-Projects shows this difference clearly - there is much more "plot" and less action in the new ones.
Somebody also mentioned Kurosawa on this board, and I'm inclined to agree when it comes to his films. SEVEN SAMURAI, IKIRU (his best!), STRAY DOG, THE LOWER DEPTHS, YOJIMBO, etc. are all worthy introductions to Japanese cinema. For Christmas, I recieved the DVD of Kurosawa's THRONE OF BLOOD and I must say it is a perfect interpretation of Shakespeare's play Macbeth, but done in the Japanese stage Noh. His other films like THE DRUNKEN ANGEL, I LIVE IN FEAR, and THE IDIOT are not available, but one hopes...
And let us not forget Ishiro Honda, who worked as second-hand assistant director for Kurosawa, and would also unleash the original GODZILLA. Honda would be responsible for jumpstarting the sci-fi genre in Japan with films like EARTH DEFENSE FORCE (1957; U.S. Title: THE MYSTERIANS) and MATANGO (1963; U.S. Title: ATTACK OF THE MUSHROOM PEOPLE). Anybody who want's to see sci-fi/horror from Japan needs to start with Honda's magnificant films. Despite critics turning Honda down because of the films that are normally seen in U.S. butchered versions, they seem to miss out on the original Japanese versions which are much better and contain really good acting. And just to let you all know, EARTH DEFENSE FORCE is going to have it's first Region 1 legit DVD release here in the U.S. by Tokyo Shock-Media Blasters in it's ORIGINAL VERSION!
I might even recommend Yasujiro Ozu, but he's kinda in the middle with me. Need to see more of his work.
Actually Japan is suppose to be filled with perverts. Their are actually large complaints about gropers on their public transportation that they are thinking about segregating the cars.
Get your cultures right! Jiun gui si(The Eye) is Chinese
Err... spelling error Jian gui is a Chinese movie. Need more sleep.
What about England's film! They are usually finally but they cuss every five minutes (less than that). Or Mexican films they have lots of perverts there too. Actually if you think about it, the world is full of perverts that have fantasies. The game Rumble Roses shows us the different types.
I liked Ringu and Audition quite a bit but was disappointed with Battle Royale (great concept, clumsy execution), Versus, and Ju-On. One of my favorite movies of the past year was the new Zatoichi movie. Awesome stuff. And the old Zatoichi movies are fun to watch as well. And, of course, you have Kirosawa who made some of the most highly regarded films in history. So Japanese cinema is certainly not all bad although they definitely put out some weird s**t. Then again, look at what comes out of Hollywood these days. What do you think a Japanese person would think watching a movie like "White Chicks"?
I heard that the culturally sanctioned repression of feelings in japanese culture is a cause for the strange plots, the pervert sexual fantasies and the brutality in their movies. I don´t think this is comparable with mexican or english culture...
I don´t want to blame japanese movies for sexuality in common, I am not a moralist, but often it disgusts me to watch the s**t happening in some of these films.
O.K. you can say "don´t watch these films" but that´s not the problem!
The problem is that this seems to get more and more normal !!!
Look what has done Tarantino with KillBill. Are there many people shocked?
Fifteen years ago the would have put KillBill on the Index in Germany - and now?
Every 14years old kiddy finds it cool...
PS: I hate moralists and all these backward a***oles that get p**sed when they see sex-scenes in films, meanwhile every second movie contains brutal shootings, decapitations, splatter etc.
I'd recommend some of Mamoru Oshii's films. I wasn't impressed with his adaptation of Masamune Shirow's fantastic comic "Ghost in the Shell," but some of his live-action pieces are interesting, to say the least. Actually, there's a trilogy boxed set that includes The Red Spectacles, Stray Dog, and Talking Head. All a bit strange, especially Talking Head, but The Red Spectacles is entirely unique and enjoyable. The sequel, Stray Dog, is a completely different film in terms of tone and execution, but also quite good. There's a good deal of slapstick humor in Spectacles, but it's taken to extremes (one chase scene is even acted in mime on a stage) for reasons that become apparent by the end of the film. Condemning all Japanese cinema as inherently inaccessible and "weird" is a bit rash.
Max dont forget about Jin-Roh the anime feature that is a other sequel to red spectacles and stray dog. Its a great film.
"I know I know ive been exposed permeant psychoses..
at least the colors are nice"- Aeon Flux
"Devil Woman Doctor" 1990
The only recommendable Guinea Pig Film (all others are crap).
hot
Kill Bill takes the custom of outrageous violence from older martial arts films. The shooting blood, dismembered limbs, and such aren't supposed to be realistic, but is a display of power that has been around since the beginning. The whole concept has been derived from their culture since Wong Fei Hung was first committed to celluloid.
In contrast, it's sort of like slapstick, it's not a serious portrayal of violence, even if the film itself is serious.
As for the perverted humor, it's cultural. People are trying to break out with shock and weirdness because it wasn't marketed before. America goes through phases in cinema just like everywhere else. We just never hit the concentration of wild flicks that Japan, China, etc. are hitting.