American movies and television have long used Asian actors and actresses to play roles that are not of their racial origin, and this annoys me to all heck. You get Koreans playing Chinese roles, Chinese playing Japanese roles, and who can forget the Chinese Joan Chen playing a freaking Eskimo in Steven Seagal's On Deadly Ground?
Memoirs of a Geisha is no exception.
Instead of mining the talent of Japan, the studios decided to get well-known Beijing and Malaysian Chinese actresses to play Japanese roles. Yes, they are known to Western audiences, yes, they are decent actresses, but one thing Hollywood never seems to get is that native-born people have subtle constellations of nonverbal mannerisms and expressions that are unique to their culture. Those of you who watch foreign movies with any regularity, or have travelled to different countries, will understand what I am talking about.
It is freaking hard for a person to adopt the subtle facial expressions and 'movement character' that they were not raised with. That extra authenticity that would be gained from using native Japanese actresses has been lost by using mainland Chinese and a Malaysian. Are they even aware of this tradeoff, or do they think it doesn't exist when there is money to be made?
At least we're beyond the days of Charlie Chan (Caucasian actor in makeup), and when Bruce Lee was turned down for the Kung Fu TV series because he was 'too Asian looking'.
Sorry, I just had to get this off my chest. The new issue of Time magazine arrived, and it has a picture of Zhang Ziyi on it in a kimono ... and she appears to have blue eyes. Argh.
~Archivist~
i understand your frustration Archivist. when they make films about ethnic people it makes sense to have ethnic people play the characters. in the case of Memoirs of a Geisha i don't think they were trying to black face anyone. since Memoirs is based on a novel that to my knowledge is contemporary fiction the producers probably figured it wouldn't hurt for the film to reflect this. i have not seen this film yet but from what i've read about it i've heard it's not the most fact based film but also that is not it's aim. not to defend this film but just to throw an alternate viewpoint out there.
also i think our cinema has stronger ties with more Hong-Kong and Chinese cinema. while there is a huge respect for Japanese cinema in America i think it tends to be more relfected in our remakes of their horror films, and the occasional 70's samurai film reissue on dvd. therefore there's not many Japanese stars people over here can relate to, especially when it comes to female Japanese leads.
sorry for the novel but Asian cinema and Asian women tend to be a couple of my favorite obsessions. cheers.
I couldn't agree more with you Archivist. this is something that has bugged me to no end aswell. It's a far cry from Al Jolson in blackface, but it still seems "wrong" to me. There are MILLIONS of movies guilty of this, and in lots of cases I have willingly overlooked it...like Christopher Lee playing Fu Manchu or something. But even in something like THE ELIMINATORS with Conan Lee (chinese) playing Kuji Takada a ninja kinda bugged me...Just cause they're asian doesn't mean they are interchangeable with all asian races and cultures...I don't care if it's easier to get away with, authenticity is preferrable.
It's annoying as hell, but I've seen movies with Harrison Ford as a Russian and many others. Sure I hate it when, like the above examples, Bruce Lee being told he is too Asian to be in Kung Fu and such, but I really don't think it matters too much.
I'd prefer it the other way for reasons given, such as mannerisms and whatnot, but when it comes to the cinema, I am prepared to be very gullible.
That being said, I much prefer getting good actors that are great for the part [and appropriate] so I really don't see why getting a Japanese girl to play a Japanese girl is such a hassle!
Bah, silly old things.
I have only one comment on this topic because the topic doesn't bother me really. But the best non-ethnic actor playing an ethnic part has to be........ *drum roll*
Lon Chaney playing Mr. Wu in Mr. Wu.
(http://www.scifilm.org/museimages/mrwu27.jpg)
I'd say it's not a problem of cliches or narrow minded audiences. No producer in Hollywood is gonna trust a multi-milion dollar budget film to a cast of unknown faces. And let's face it, there are not many japanese actors familiar to us these days. Hadn't Michelle Yeong and Zang ZiYi been known in the western world, they would have hired Rachel Leigh Cook and Kirsten Dunst and buried them in make up.
I'm against he use of non-ethnic actors/actresses also, but I enjoy seeing all of Michelle Yeong and Zang ZiYi films and may watch MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA for that very reason.
And yes, I would like to see Hollywood try a little harder to find and develope a new talent for the Geisha role, but take it for what it is. It will probably be a second rate film because of it.
Hollywood has done better with the Native Americans in film over the past 20 years and other movies that involve non-white roles.
Your right Archivist, but things have changed alot for the better over the years. What irks me the most is how they used white humans as actors/actresses in PLANET OF THE APES. : )
Scottie,
my nomination is John Wayne as . . . .
Genghis Khan!
(and in third place, Warner Oland as Charlie Chan).
I agree with Dean. This is done with caucasian actors all the time. We don't complain when an Englishman puts on an American accent or vice-versa (unless it's done badly). Nobody throught it was bad that James Doohan put on a Scottish accent for Star Trek. Hell, Patrick Stewart played a Frenchman with an English accent. Highlander had a Frenchman playing a Scotsman posing as an American and a Scotsman playing an Egyptian posing as a Spaniard, and both kept their own accents. Mandy Patinkin made an entertaining Spaniard in The Princess Bride. And before Harrison Ford played a Russian submarine captain, Sean Connery did a pretty good job of it. We're willing to accept Jude Law the Russian fighting Ed Harris the German. And don't get me started on John Rhys-Davies. The guy makes a great Egyptian, Russian, Dwarf, whatever you want.
These are actors. Their whole profession is about pretending to be something they're not. I get the impression that when this happens with Asians, aboriginal people, etc., it gets perceived on some level as a "they all look alike" type of situation. But it's accepted with "white" people just fine.
Then again, how many movies have black American actors playing Africans or people from the Carribbean islands?
AndyC Wrote:
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Nobody
> throught it was bad that James Doohan put on a
> Scottish accent for Star Trek.
The Scottish might have complained.... (not that anyone was probably listening).
As an Aussie I still resent Meryl Streep for here attempt at "Strine" (the Australian version of the English language) in Evil Angels.
From what I got out of Doohan's various obits, at least a couple of Scottish communities were actually arguing over who was Scotty's real fictional home town. I'd think they'd be more offended by the various angry, shouting Scots featured in TV commercials (it's been kind of a trend here in Canada), if they are likely to be offended at all.
I can see your other point. Nothing is worse than an accent or a dialect badly done. On the other hand, when an actor nails it, it's pretty impressive.
I always called the actor Mako, the all purpose Asian. He and James Hong have been in so many movies and TV programs playing Japanese, Koreans, Viet Namese, and Chinese.
Hey, what about all these Aussies and Brits playing Americans. Last years Batman Returns only had two Americans in the cast, Morgan Freeman and Katie Holms. This has become quite common in the last few years.
Best actor playing outside his nationality: Bob Hoskins (watch a movie like Who Framed Roger Rabbit- or that one he was in with Cher) and try to remember this guy's English.
Worst actor playing outside his nationality: John Wayne as Ghengis Kahn. Boris Karloff as Mr. Wong wasn't exactly great either.
One of the best Asian actresses I've seen in recent years is Youki Kudoh, whom I first became aware of in Snow Falling on Cedars. There's something about her voice- the pitch, the tone, the way it almost seems to waver... that is genuinly seductive... and if I'm not mistaken, she is of Japanese origin.
trek_geezer Wrote:
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> Hey, what about all these Aussies and Brits
> playing Americans.
Yeah, Russell Crowe and Guy Pearce playing LA cops (and doing a mighty good job of it too!) are an example in LA Confidential.
How many different nationalities did Anthony Quinn play in his career?
An Arab in Lawarence of Arabia and Lion of the Desert.
Lust for Life and The Last Command he was French.
Seven Cities of Gold he was Spanish.
Last Train From Gun Hill and Warlock he was a cowboy. (American) ;)
Crazy Horse in They Died with Their Boots On.
A Phillipino in Back to Bataan.
Italian in Last Action Hero and La Strada.
However, Viva Zapata he was actually a Mexcian.
Zorba the Greek he played a . . . oh what nationality was that again?;)
Hey! I was going to mention how great Bob Hoskins was in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.! For years I thought that guy was American, that was the only movie I saw with Hoskins. Then I got the DVD and watched the commintary and I learned he was English. Me:!!!!!!! I doesn't slip up once!
I'll see your nine Quinns and raise you seven Oliviers.
German - Wild Geese II
American - Inchon
Greek god - Clash of the Titans
Frenchman - A Little Romance
Dutchman - Dracula
Jewish elder - Jesus of Nazareth
Swede - The Dance of Death
Russian - Shoes of the Fisherman
Sudanese - Khartoum
Moor - Othello
Roman - Spartacus
Ruritarian - The Prince and the Showgirl
Dane - Hamlet
French-Canadian - 49th Parallel
Italian - Conquest of the Air
Englishman - Rebecca