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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090625/people_nm/us_jackson_4 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090625/people_nm/us_jackson_4)

EDIT: Well, it's official. The King of Pop is dead at the age of 50. 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529103,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529103,00.html)

Dang. I'm not a fan,and if he was a pediophile,I can't say I'm sorry. He had talent,I guess.

Holy balls!  I figured he was undead.

The Grim Reaper is working overtime this week.  Jeepers!!

Wow, I would have never expected that. 

:bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle:

Regardless of his freaky deaky antics (most of which I find distasteful...sleeping in the same bed as 12 year olds...really now?), I honestly think that MJ one was of the best entertainers of all time.  The guy made a good chunk of the 80s memorable and I enjoy his music from the era.  Too bad he couldn't have kept away from the oddness and stick to what he did best, entertain.  RIP and thanks for music Michael.

Yet=he was more than that. He was a pediophile. And people who say no-jump on the OJ train.. It's leaving the real world.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, something wasn't right in his world.  Regardless of acquitals, one can't overlook that something beyond out of the ordinary was going on in his bedroom at the Neverland Ranch.   

A sad end to a remarkable, but ultimately twisted, life.

There is no doubt that he was one of the most gifted performers of all time.

There is also little doubt that he was mentally unbalanced and had an unhealthy obsession with young boys.

Whatever personal demons he wrestled with, and however justice may or may not have been perverted in his trials, he now stands accountable for eternity.

May God have mercy on his soul.

I don't like the JACKSON clan much.  And MICHAEL was troubling at best.  But, I am still shocked and saddened by his death.  Good Night, MICHAEL.  You will not be forgotten. 

Boy you guy are heartless RC Merchant, Akiratubo, Dogget the guy had a mess up life his father emotional,verbal,physical abuse him and his brothers. I bet if your dad did that to you I bet you be a little mess up in the head. Still MJ will always be one of greatest entertainers of all time. :bluesad:

Aint it funny, how the press couldn't hate this guy enough over the last 15 or 20 years, & now they can't stop fawning over him.
 :question:

MICHAEL JACKSON's death is not small potatos.  None of us will forget where we were when we heard MICHAEL had died. 

Let me also say I've been playing MICHAEL's videos on YouTube for an hour or so, and I cried a bit.  I can't help myself; though I've never owned a MICHAEL record of any sort, though I really liked Off The Wall and Thriller..., I am just so sad at the enormous talent wasted. I cried when JOHN LENNON was murdered, so why shouldn't I cry for MICHAEL? 

Let me just say, MICHAEL JACKSON is dead.  I am deeply saddened. 

It was shocking to hear of his death but Im not going to be one of those people crying in the streets. He was a very talented man.. long ago. He became something of a monster in my eyes and I cant help but see him in any other light. I do feel terrible for his children and his family, this must be so awful for them.

MICHAEL, personally, was a mess.  And too often absurd.  Just watch the 12 minute "Rock My World" video on YouTube and you'll see (or remember) how full of sh!t his machine was.  As I wrote, "troubling at best".  I am nonetheless stunned, saddened, and mournful at his death.  MICHAEL's death is not just some personal tragedy, waste, or horror. 

MICHAEL's death is monumental.  MICHAEL's death is about us. 

I was saying the same exact thing. The media is just full of such hypocrites.

I don't think he's the greatest entertainer, but he was a fabulous artist who transcended to the highest level of the entertainment world. Like Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix etc... there's only one Michael Jackson. Let's hope he finds the peace now that eluded him his entire life.

Isn't it also sad that here's a man who had everything. Who most people would be satisfied to have a sliver of what we perceived him having, and yet he was terribly alone and isolated from living. It's extremely sad.

 :lookingup:


Sigh

The guy was a creepy freak.
A talanted freak...a freak not of his creating...but a freak none the less

Sorry.

I don't think there's as much fun to be had here as there was from DC's death....

John Wayne Gacy had a rotton childhood too. It didn't break my heart when he took a sh!t either. If I feel sorry for anyone-it's the kids he molested.

As for abusive childhoods, I survived one myself and I didn't turn into some sort of train wreck. And yep it was the tell you you are worthless, treat you like crap, and beat you with their fist type of childhood. So I loathe those who like to try to claim that as a defense for someone's behavior.

As far as Michael Jackson, I figure a few things are going to happen and willing to lay odds on them.

First, I figure whomever owns Neverland Ranch is going to turn it into a tourist attraction similar to Graceland. There is just too much money that can be made, especially now that Jackson is dead, off that place. Hardcore fans will flock to it like it was their Mecca and others will want to visit it with the intrest of viewing a freakshow. My odds for this are 2:1

Second, someone is going to claim Michael Jackson was murdered by a conspiracy. Why? Because people love a good conspiracy theory and every celebrity that dies before they reach 65+ usually has one attached to them. These almost always pop up when a celeb dies suddenly as Jackson did. Figure someone will (if not already) have started circulating rumors that he was murdered by a shadow group that was out to get him because of his success, fame, or history acquittals for child molestation charges. My odds for this 1:1

Third, I figure with in the next 2 to 5 years, we will get Michael Jackson sighting fuelling the rumor that he faked his death. Somebody will be in their local grocery store, Wal-Mart, or whatever and claim they seen him. Tabloids will pick up the rumor and run with it fuelling it further. All this despite the fact that with the advent of the internet, the rabid way the entertainment media run these days, and the fact that there is too much money to be made by proving any celebrity faked their death, people will insist that he faked his death. Like him or not, Jackson was one of the few big celebs known world wide that you honestly can expect to have someone claim this about because they seen a guy leaving the 7-11 int he middle of the night in a bathrobe who might vaguely resemble him that just bought a pack of M&M's and a Pepsi. My odds for this 3:1

Ok gang up on me I don't care I'm just saying what you guys don't want nobody to say on here that he still a great entertainer and that I feel sorry that he didn't have a childhood. Now RC Merchant putting MJ with Gacy is just plane stupid just like when people saying Obama is like Hitler.

I for one never believed that Michael Jackson molested any of those children.
I never believed it then and I don't now.

Read this short article by Roger Ebert.  He pretty much nailed down why Michael was the way he was.

Read it HERE (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090625/PEOPLE/906259982).

They're just responding to your initial comments.   I don't think they're ganging up on you and there are people on here who echo your sentiments about MJ's talent, myself included.  Its obvious MJ's death has sparked a huge range of mixed emotions in the world and this board is no different. The most common I'm finding here and elsewhere is the man was a remarkable entertainer.   However, people can't overlook that he had odd personal issues that honestly led to his downfalls.  Those issues are going to invoke some "good f-him" responses in the world which is understandable.  Although I am not condoning his wrong life decisions, I chose to try to remember him as a man who gave me several hours of entertainment in the 80s.  A guy who put music video on the map with Triller and Billy Jean.  Kind of like people who choose to remember Elvis respectively as the handsome, well cut guy and not the overweight wreck he was at the end of his career.  

If only he died naked, tied up and maturbating in a wardrobe...
Then we could have fun on this thread and we wouldn't care about his...dubious...is that a good word to use...It'll do...life.
And we wouldn't be arguing with each other. C'mon guys, we're all friends here, no need to get rough.


Why can't all deaths be like David's ?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on MJ. To say the least his behavior actually on screen was peculiar. When the first go round of molestation charges were aimed at him, I firmly believed he was guilty. Due to what I heard from the media. Then when the trial the second time came round, I firmly believed he was innocent, after hearing him in those bizarre interviews he did.

People made fun and found him bizarre because he liked to sit in a tree, play with kids and even have little boys sleep in the same bed (or room) as him. But, he's Michael Jackson, these kids LOVE him. They want to be around him 24 hours a day. MJ said repeatedly he missed not having a childhood. Well, Neverland afforded him the luxury of having a childhood.

Is it weird? I don't honestly think so.

Is the plastic surgery bizarre? For us maybe, but not for him. He was judged a lot for his looks, and that's not really anyone's business but his own.

We're all too ready to judge without knowing all the facts, and disregarding the ones that don't fit our outcome.

If he molested little boys that's an entirely different story. He was never convicted of the crimes, and when the amount of money is on the line that MJ had, questions do rise as to why a parent would let their child spend so much time alone with someone like MJ.

Regardless, I feel sorry for him. Because he was so talented, made millions smile, had the world on a string, and was completely miserable.

Personally, I couldn't stand his music, and his antics were downright gross to me. I find it hard to believe he was innocent of all the molestation accusations, especially with the huge payoffs to drop the case(s). That's called blackmail when the person is innocent, and even if MJ didn't know that, surely the team of lawyers that defended him did. "Innocent until proven guilty" only applies to the court, the rest of us are allowed to use discretion. When a person is accused of something, typically they hide if if they're guilty, and bring it to light if they're innocent. He tried to hide it.
As for the whole "unhappy childhood" crap, BFD. Many people have childhoods that are as bad or even worse, it's still not an excuse, especially considering the resources he has to deal with it through therapy.

For one thing...I'm not jumping on you. If I jumped on you...you would know it. Second-comparing Jackson to Gacy-Gacy was a criminal pervert and so was  Jackson. I merely stated that Gacy had a rotton childhood as well...but that doesn't escuse him for his crimes. In my eyes, a child molester is scum. I had a rotton childhood as well. But I don't kill people and hide them in my basement,or molest little boys. He was mentally sick? Sure. But you shoot rabid dogs . Because they are uncontrolable and dangerous.

Of course this is merely my opinion. I don't knock you for yours.

I think its a sad commentary that "celebrity" allows you to get away with things that the majority of the population would be crucified for. But a celebrity? no. People let them off way to easy. Jackson, O.J. Robert Blake.. you get the gist. And its not just violent crimes like murder or molestation but drugs, car accidents, stealing.. it boggles my mind.

Jackson may have had a terrible childhood but that doesn't negate what he has done.

Im curious what will happen to his children? Do they have a chance at a normal life? If they go with his family, considering the abuse allegations, it doesnt seem like they will. If they go with their biological mother who had them for money, gave them away for money and will only take them back because of money, normal seems unlikely.

Either he really did molest those children...
or the media lead him to his grave and killed him.

I'm really hoping he wasn't a child molester; it would be so sad for someone to waste that kind of talent that people like Bob Marley, Elvis and John Lennon have.

Not to sound paranoid, but it seems like the media feels guilty about something-- why are they playing his videos and his songs everywhere?

Why? RATINGS.MONEY.GREED.

I have never understood the weeping and wailing when a celebrity dies, or why their deaths are supposed to have more value than anyone else's.  Some are good people, some are freaks, some are plain worthless, but to cry over a celebrity?  We have World War 2 veterans who are dropping like flies. These are the guys who put their butts on the line for the duration in most cases. Every time I talk to one at my job, I just want to reach through the phone and give them a hug and shake their hands. I have a hard time not crying when I realize these guys are in the upper 80's and some of them are living on less than I spend on groceries each month.

And all the other veterans who served to do what they thought was right, and those who still are. (Sorry, working with veterans has made me a bit protective of most of these folks.)

And there are incredibly noble people who pass away every day, but you don't see the world stop for them.  The world slams to a halt to cram Anna Nicole Smith down your throat, but when the cop who saved a kid from harm gets shot, we forget about it two minutes later.

Michael Jackson had some good music and some cool videos, but compared to people who have more impact on my life, I could go the rest of my life and not think about his passing. As a person, he didn't matter beyond a few hours of entertainment.  I feel bad for his kids maybe, but his family will continue to make a circus of his life because they can make money from it.  

Turn the page and find something more important to worry about.

Maybe, but they could just as well not play his videos or music. When Caradine died, there wasn't a never ending thing on the news about it.

True. But Carridine wasn't a mega-star. Jackson was-the more coverage=the more ratings. I was very heart broke of the passing of Forrest J. Ackerman...but TV basically ignored it. Fandom provided almost the only coverage of his passing. Jackson was mega millions in life...and now in death. I think Javakoala hit the nail on the head, The Cult of Celebrity is fed by $$$.

EXAMPLE- Farrah. A brave woman who fought cancer for years. But no controversy. Controversy followed Jackson. It sold tabloids. Over 4000 serviceman have died in the Iraq conflict. 4000!!! Yet do we see tributes to them? Why? The Cult of Celebrity.Peopel live there lives vicarously through there heros. I'm guilty too. I think Lugosi is the coolest thing since sliced bread.

It's tough to explain auto erotic asphyxiation to the kids !  :teddyr:

True. You don't wanna put that on Entertainment Tonight. Yet the fawning over this scumbag makes me sick. Will they praise Gary Glitter when he dies? I don't think so. He wasn't a $$$ machine for the tabloids.

I think he was when he was accused of diddling kids.

I have seen a media reaction like this before, back in 1977 when Elvis Presley died. In fact that is the only celebrity who I can think of that happen to ever to achieve a similar level of fame world wide that Michael Jackson had.
Back when Elvis died, there wasn't music videos or 24 hour news channels. If they had existed then, the same thing would of happened. I know most radio stations played a lot of Elvis music and a lot of his films were suddenly on television. So it's nothing new for some of us, just it's been 32 years since a person who had achieved this level of fame has died.
Like him or hate him, you can't deny that Michael Jackson was a rare type of celebrity that seldom comes along. It doesn't excuse his excesses however.

"Excuse his excesses"-- What are those?
His known excesses, that he had roller coasters and liked to dress up like a Kim Jong Il in sequins?

Now the way it's supposed to work, is that you're innocent til proven guilty. Can anyone prove his guilt?

He also dangled his child over a balcony, was known prescription drug abuser in the past (and looks as if this contributed to his death), admitted to sleeping in the same bed with minors, and was millions in debt just to name a few. Excesses are not limited to criminal charges.

There are many accounts by him and his PR about those events.
So they're not really confirmed as things that marred his character.

Whatever you wanna do, I'm not going to jump to conclusions about his guilt.

I'm sure some could. But money bought them off. I ain't fooled. Anybody with one good eye (and I have two) could see he was a perv.

OK-my theroy.He got plastic surgery to look like Diana Ross. He loved her. Maybe he had sex with her,as a kid.Or Maybe he wished he did. He turned into Diana and did what he wished was done...or it was his way of reliving what was done. Just a theory.

When did I claim he was guilty of anything. Again, I point out that excesses cover a lot more than any criminal charges for which he was aquitted . And everything I pointed out has evidence that supports this.  He did dangle his child over a balcony, he did state in an interview that he felt it was ok for him to share his bed with minors, he did admit to having a prescription drug problem in the past (which is being looked into as what caused his heart attack that resulted in his death as well as current prescriotion drug abuse), and his finacial records which have been released show he was at least 400 million dollars in debt. Behaviors like these are consider excesses. Sleeping in oxygen tanks, owning a personal amusement park, a personal zoo, and constantly having plastic surgery for years can also be considered excesses. Thinking he can act like he's still 11 in his behavior when he was 50 is an excess.

Bottom line,for me: f**k him. He was a scumbag. Now he's a dead scumbag.

Well, OJ wasn't found guilty, but everyone "knows" he did it.  Why should Michael Jackson be excused?

But I'm not going to throw hate at the guy.  I just simply could care less. 

Shouldn't we be ganging up on the next Michael Bay nightmare or something?

I like this guy  :lookingup:  :thumbup:

 :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx0ggVwzgpM

  

Agree.

Huh boy.  There's a lot of hate for MICHAEL JACKSON 'round here.  I suppose I understand it.  Name calling is easy, and I know I'm certainly guilty of it too, particularly about MICHAEL.  Hate is easy.  Forgiveness is difficult. 

As I confessed, I had tears for MICHAEL.  I don't know why and was surprised by myself.  I never would have guessed that I gave a sh!t about him. 

I do think that a celebrity gets the attention he might at death because unlike most of the deaths we are surrounded by daily, a celebrity, particularly of the enormous caliber of MICHAEL JACKSON, are known to us.  We all know MICHAEL, perhaps too well for many, and that can leave one feeling, even a non-fan (such as myself) a sense of loss.  Death is of course final.  There can be no reparation, repatriation, or reconciliation.  We are left only with questions. 

For me, MICHAEL JACKSON's death is too telling. 

I've been telling people that if he did molest kids then his soul is burning in hell right now where it should be.  I've always kind of rode the fence about if he truly did that stuff.  It always seemed to me that in the 1993 trial that that kid's father was only after money. Even the kid's own mom stood behind MJ and said he was innocent. Most people forget that.   I mean if someone like MJ had molested my child, money would be the farthest thing from my mind.  Seeing MJ rot away in prison would be what I would want.  In the more recent molestation trial it felt like his lifestyle was on trial moreso than if he truly did molest that particular boy.  MJ was weird to the hilt but who truly knows if he really molested any kids.

I would never argue your right to feel the way you do.  I just don't understand it. I've never understood people who want to punch you if you say something against their favorite band. To me, it is all the same.  The intertwining of one's Self with people you do not know but only know of is...alien.  Feeling sorrow for someone I've never met is odd.

Now, if you tell me that you were moved to cry because you know that the loss of potential for more things that may affect your personal enjoyment of life is taken away, I can understand that.  When Jim Varney died, I went down to the basement and cried like a baby. It was rather self-serving because I knew I would never see new material that might make me laugh like "Earnest Saves Christmas" did.  I cried for me.  Jim Varney was beyond any pain I might empathize with.

Maybe I'm just insensitive, but I can't cry for the loss of "great art" because there may never have been anymore from Michael Jackson, and I can't cry because the world lost another person, and I wasn't his friend or relative. And I never cared for his music enough to even cry for myself, that I won't get to hear another album of his.

I'm on the fence too.
But supposing he didn't molest those boys; man, his dad really screwed him up.

To quote myself: "As I confessed, I had tears for MICHAEL.  I don't know why and was surprised by myself.  I never would have guessed that I gave a sh!t about him."   

"Intertwining" myself?  No. 
As I have written on this forum before, I think of myself as a wise clown, but know I'm a sentimental fool. 

Ah, I understand now.  And this is the reason I don't watch movies like "Old Yeller" while around other people.

 :cheers:

I was reading recently about the first accusation.  It was part of a tribute thing.  How he met the boy, how the original charges came about.  The most interesting thing about it is apparently the boy's father, a dentist, pumped his son full of drugs than asked him if he'd been molested.  The father also blackmailed Jackson, on tape.  At the very least, the whole situation was flaky and weird - like everything around MJ from the early 90s and on, really. 

Similar stuff surrounded the latter accusations.  Just weird.  I'm not really convinced he's a child molester, but I can't say I'm truly convinced of his innocence either. 

Whatever the case, his death is a huge event in pop culture.  It feels like the last little bit of 80s pop culture died with him, kind of like how the 60s finally died with John Lennon.  I can't really be that upset over most entertainer's deaths, since I don't have a personal connection to very many of them.  But, it's still a pretty big event, symbolic of a broader change.  I guess that's about all I can say.

If you watched that show that MJ was crucified for, and tried to put yourself in his shoes for a moment, you'd realize he isn't the monster people made him out to be. He had a huge heart, a bigger ego, and terrible people surrounding him.

But, the real monster in all of this is the media. I saw the press conference Sharpton and Joe Jackson had yesterday. Last night on Anderson Cooper all they could talk about was Joe plugging his new record company. Not that he couldn't hear the questions reporters were throwing at him at once. Or the meaning behind the company. There's no slack given to anyone, just sound bites. They should lose a child and then get up and answer questions.

After learning more,I feel bad about my comments, I apoligize for my stupidity.

One thing YOU are not is "stupid".  As I've written before:  you da man. 

The really sad thing is all the great Michael Jackson jokes that I can't tell anymore. :bluesad:



To me, Michael was, in a way, symbolic of what is great about this country:

Any talented black child can, with hard work and lots of money, die as a middle-aged white woman.


Sorry!  Had to get that last one in! :teddyr:

Boo.  That's a rotten old joke.  I used to believe MICHAEL was a child molestor.  In the wake of his death and reading more about these allegations, I am very skeptical. 

I saw a new story other dayw here someone was claiming they saw Michael Jackson's face on Friday in some clouds over New York. I have seen the image and I don't see it. However in grief, people will see what they want if it brings comfort to them.
One thing I have heard mentioned is some people taking their own lives over Jackson's passing. I heard it mentioned briefly in a news report but have yet to find anything news articles claiming this has actually happen. Personally, I can't see any celebrity worth killing myself over. I don;t care who they are. They are jsut people who happen to be fortunate enough to have talent (or in the case of reality TV, just being a P.I.T.A.). I seriously wonder about the mental health of those who are so enthralled by a celebrity that their whole world revolves around one.
Finally, WTF is wrong with Joe Jackson? His son just died and the main thing he wants to talk about is his new record company? I think that is also a bit messed up. Like Michael Jackson or not, this just shows that his father stopped seeing him as his child and instead as a money making buisness a long time ago. Most parents would be rather devestated by the passing of their child at any age. Just look at how his mom is for an example of that. She is severely heartbroken, yet his dad is more concern about making sure people hear about hsi new record company than mourning his son. That is seriously messed up.

Joe Jackson is to parenting as Ike Turner was to being a husband.

I think lots of people feel stupid now...

JOE JACKSON is a turd; as I've also written before, I don't like the JACKSON clan much. 

Diana Ross gets the kids.

Okay, I'm convinced.

Have you been looking at my confidential files in the basement of the school again?

Oh, wait, you said FEEL stupid....

Even Tough I'm wishy  washy on his child molestation stuff...I still am not broken by his death. Now if OZZY died....! :bluesad: I was heartbroken when the Ramones (Joey,Dee Dee, Johnny), FJA, and Vampira died. But Michel? No. David Carridine? Yes. John Carridine-Lon Chaney Jr.-(yes- I remeber) Peter Cushing-Vincent Price-Issac Asimov-I even rember hen Tor Johnson died-(Through FAMOUS MONSTERS mag-) but Micheal. No. I rember when Groucho Marx and Elvis died. But I was never a fan of Jackson-so his death doesn't hit home for me.

The most devastiting death of a celebrtity was of Forrest J. Ackerman- The Ackermonster-Dr.Ackula-The Ackermonster-Uncle Forry-FSJ-my hero....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcHpic_ncT4

So RC Merchant you want to apologize for your comments well I for one you have to apologize to like the last one when you threaten me. :hatred:

:bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle:
Warp Ninja X you make me laugh.  You be threaten'd?  You don' know our BELA who request our host to shut off hizzen karma thingy.  Go ahead, just try to give the undead one a negative karma...  :drink: :wink:

Be serious. How can I do you harm? This is cyberspace. Once again-No one 'ganged' up on you. Don't be so insecure.

Ignore him, RC.

WNX can get ab bit tetchy.... :wink:

You can threatern me. I don't mind :thumbup:

I think you'd like it....




...don't do it RC, it's a trap!

 :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle:

I'm not that kinda guy !!!!

I feel kinda gross...

Now I feel threatened!  :buggedout: Down right scared!

RC never insulted you or threatened you.  He stated his opinion, which was different from yours, and ended with "this is merely my opinion. I don't knock you for yours."  Overall he was very civil.

Ok he didn't made a threat my bag for that but he wasn't civil on his comments.

This conversation has run it's course.