Badmovies.org Forum

So O.K. I saw Darksider already started some cool and interesting pro wrestling threads in this forum but I think we need one where we can talk and chat about the latest news from WWE, TNA, ROH, CZW, SHIMMER, NOAH, NWA, Japan, whatever. Where we can discuss the latest happening on Raw, Smackdown, Impact or ROH's weekly show. A place to talk about the latest wrestling on DVD or VHS we've viewed, etc. Basically let's just talk pro wrestling.

Alright to get it going, I'll start with the following questions?

Favourite Current Wrestler?
Favourite Old-School Wrestler?
Favourite Federation Today?
Favourite All-Time Federation?

Well to answer the questions, my favourite current wrestler is C.M. Punk. Yes I know Punk is currently doing a heelish hardline militant take on Straight Edge which I personally don't agree with but he's still a great wrestler and in real life, I understand he lives a Straight Edge lifestyle much more similar to my own. Punk is great on the microphone and really knows how to get the fans hating him. His group with Serena, Luke Gallows and Joseph Mercury is currently the most interesting aspect of Smackdown for me. Personally I think they do need more members in the group although I inevitably seeing Punk's charges turning on him down the road...the question then is well Punk return to being a fan favourite or will his former charges take on that role?

My favourite old-school wrestler was Randy "Macho Man" Savage. Savage brought an intensity and high energy, high impact to everything he did in the ring. He seemed like a cool customer but actually was easy to temper. I remember how jealous he was of Miss Elizabeth and how much the fans hated him in his Intercontinental title days especially after he injured Ricky Steamboat. Savage was fantastic in that role and I think it's actually when I liked him best believe it or not although he'd go on to become a fan favourite in 1987 after the Hart Foundation and Honky Tonk Man attacked Miss Elizabeth as she tried to shield him from attack. Savage flipped out at the heels and was thereafter beloved. I remember how thrilled I was when he won the WWF World title in 1988 at Wrestlemania IV and went on to form the Mega-Powers with Hulk Hogan. Truthfully I never liked Hogan all that much and soon Hogan and Savage would split as I kind of expected would eventually happen with Savage becoming heel again for a few more years and losing his title back to Hogan. Savage though would again become a fan favourite following a reunion with Elizabeth at Wrestlemania VII and would eventually win another WWF World title in 1992 from Ric Flair in a bitter rivalry. Savage's matches with Steamboat and Flair are just great IMO.

My favourite federation these days is WWE I have to admit although I think it's pretty bad more often than not. WWE these days follows formula scripts way too much as every episode of Smackdown or Raw feels pretty much identical to those over the last ten years or so, actually they're also fairly similar to their video game's season format. The days of wrestling being truly unpredictable sadly seem to be over although the Nexus did spice things up quite a bit recently. I also like the rise of some good new, young talent in WWE like Sheamus, Drew McIntyre and Kofi Kingston. Right behind WWE would probably be ROH for the last decade. They just feature the best bell to bell wrestling there arguably is to be seen these days although the loss of top talent like Bryan Danielson and Nigel McGuinnes has hurt them quite a lot. I cannot believe WWE let go of Danielson either...I keep hoping they'll bring him back with the Nexus angle somehow.

My favourite old-school wrestling federation was the NWA. Jim Crockett Promotions. In the late 1980s, wrestling just didn't get any better than the NWA what with Ric Flair as NWA World Champion fending off challenges from the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Lex Luger, Sting, Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Barry Windham, Ronnie Garvin, Jimmy Garvin, the Road Warriors and the Rock 'n' Roll Express. The U.S. title wars between Blanchard-T.A., McDaniel-T.A., Koloff-T.A, Koloff-Luger, Rhodes-Luger, Windham-Rhodes, Windham-Luger. The Television title wars between Dusty Rhodes and Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson. A tag division so full of talent they needed both a World tag and United States tag titles...teams included The Road Warriors, The Rock 'n' Roll Express, The Horsemen Blanchard & Anderson, The Midnight Express with Jim Cornette, Nikita & Ivan Koloff, Lex Luger & Barry Windham, The Garvins, the Varsity Club, the Original Midnight Express with Paul E. Dangerously, Tom Zenk & Brian Pillman, the Freebirds, Doom, the Steiners and so many more.

Pro wrestling: Comic books for people who like the idea of comic books but have trouble with the little balloons with letters in them.... :bouncegiggle:

My history with wrestling is a long one.  I'll do current time and back.  I tune in and out of pro wrestling very randomly lately.  Right around the time Vinnie Mac bought WCW I pretty much lost interest.  It was so watered down with silly talking and little wrestling that I just lost interest.  I do like the action of TNA and find their roster to be loaded with talent.   However, I just don't have the time to follow anything right now with three kids.  

I was big into wrestling 10 years or so ago when NWO was big. I was glued to my TV set every Monday.  My buddy and I would chat back and forth about the latest happenings.  We'd also go to EVERY and I mean every wrestling event in our area.  No matter if we had to drive a few hours.  Best shows of that time in my life were the ECW events in Worcester, MA.  My father would always go with us and that time provided me with some wonderfully fun memories.

I watched a little wrestling in high school off and on.  Nothing religiously.  Before that I had a long span of watching wrestling from 1st grade until the 6th grade.  My father got me into it.  My mother and brother hated it.  We'd always go see the WWF when it came to town and I got to see Hulk Hogan when he was on top of the world twice.  I'd also watch GLOW a lot and AWA.  Matter of fact I recall when GLOW was my favorite.   It was an odd time.  I had many of the WWF wrestling figures growing up and the wrestling ring to boot.   I'd catch NWA from time to time but never found myself 100% liking it.

FAV Current: RVD, his athletism to me is amazing.  Plus he breaks that standard of being making threats.  He just plays it cool.

Fav Old School:  Tough one...growing up I was a huge Ultimate Warrior Fan.  

Fav Fed Today:  Probably TNA

Fav All Time Federation:  WWF though its been love/hate through the years.  I think Vince McMahon and his writers get way out of touch at times with what the public wants but at other times they're spot on.

There is actually an Indy league nearby that attracts some one time big names like Brutus Beefcake.  I really want to get to a show or two once my boys get older.

I grew up watching WWF on TV during the height of Hulkamania popularity. I had around 30 of the action figures and the wrestling ring too. Wrestling was so popular back then even where in rural Newfoundland via cable, you could see WWF, NWA, AWA, Calgary Stampede, UWF, GLOW (and later POWW), and Vancouver's All-Star Wrestling plus there was a show called Pro Wrestling This Week that showed highlights and matches from all over - the independents, Japan, etc..  There was a lot of wrestling back then and no two federations were exactly the same. Nowadays everything feels too scripted and pre-planned and usually seems unreal...even though it was still pre-determined back in the 80s, it was presented in such a way via kayfabe as though it was a real sport, at least some illusion of it was cast, that it made it somehow easier to lose oneself in the illusion so to speak.

I'm watching WWE tonight. The first match between Miz and Evan Bourne was surprisingly stiff and almost reminded me of the Japanese strong style yet it's kind of sad to see how WWE is misusing Bourne who has the potential to be as big as Rey Mysterio if only WWE would see it. The second match featured Melina in a sloppy match with Alicia Fox which saw Melina awkwardly dump Fox on her head (man she's lucky she wasn't seriously injured there IMO). Some of the divas hardly seem to know what they're doing on there...might be only a matter of time before one gets seriously hurt. The rest of the show has been talk..talk...talk...most of it pretty boring so far. But man is Randy Orton over these days...no doubt the most popular guy right now.

We also get John Morrison & R-Truth in a quick tag win over William Regal & Zack Ryder. Completely throwaway match just to keep Morrison & Truth in the picture. Too bad it was at the expense of talented guys like Regal & Ryder. The swimsuit triple threat match between the divas with the Bella Twins defeating Maryse & Jillian Hall & Eve Torres & Gail Kim. Completely forgettable despite what the divas were wearing. Actually only memorable thing about it was Santino Marella as special guest referee hamming it up as usual and now apparently the sudden love interest of Jimmy Snuka's daughter Tamina who disturbingly enough looks like a female version of Snuka.  :buggedout: Santino actually has a legit tough guy background including some MMA but you'd never know it given the buffoon he plays in WWE. Surprisingly enough the fans seem to love him just the way he is as he remains quite popular. Still he could be doing so much more if he got more serious. The Nexus continued their attacks taking out the Hart Dynasty, Mark Henry and the Great Khali all building up to the Summerslam match featuring Team WWE vs. Team Nexus. Finally ended with a lumberjack match with Bret Hart actually teaming up with John Cena to take on Chris Jericho and Edge, who quit Team WWE just a week ago. The lumberjacks were the Nexus. Inevitably the Nexus ended up attacking Edge & Jericho bringing them back on Team WWE's side and Hart really didn't do much. Not sure if he can considering he's had a stroke in the past. Wonder if he'll actually do much of anything at Summerslam on Team WWE...

I've watched wrestling, pretty much since I was around 3/4 in the '80s.  The WWF is what drew me in, with guys like Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Hillbilly Jim, Hacksaw Jim Duggan and Honky Tonk Man.  Eventually I started also watching WCW Saturday Night, which opened the doors to guys like Sting, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair and others.  I was a big fan, watching most shows put on by both WWF and WCW.  Eventually, my interest kinda wained around second and third grade in the early '90s.  I still watched, but not on a weekly basis.  Maybe once/twice a month, only watching to see some of my favorites.  Then, what re-ignited my flame for wrestling was 3 major things: ECW, the re-emergence of Hogan and the NWO, as well as Stone Cold Steve Austin.  Seeing the stuff ECW was doing, with the storylines, the blood and violence, the cruiserweights, etc, showed me like, "Wow, it doesn't all have to be cartoon characters."  The NWO was an interesting concept, borrowed from a storyline in Japan, of a group of wrestlers trying to take over the company they work for.  Eventually the cruiserweights kept me tuned in here.  Then, the legendary WWF Austin/McMahon angle, where Vince McMahon himself became physically involved in a storyline in order to compete directly with the heavy competition.

Fav. Current: I'd have to give it to AJ Styles.  Mostly, cause I've seen him grow as a wrestler, from a young upstart, competing briefly in WCW, then seeing him locally with NWA:Wildside, CZW, ROH, and following from the very first TNA broadcast in 2002 until now.  Of today's generation, one of the best gifted aerialists and technicians.  Close second is Kurt Angle, who I believe is taking some time off.

Fav Old School: Have to say, likely Bret Hart.  One of the few who kept me tuning in to the mid '90s WWF, as they had wrestling plumbers, baseball players, racecar drivers, etc.  And, how would one categorize The Undertaker?  I was gonna select him as my "Old School", but seeing as he is technically a 'Current' wrestler, hmm?

Fed. Today: I don't really have a preferred organization now.  I don't prefer one over the other, and like both for different reasons.

Fav. All Time Federation: Ultimately, ECW.  Hands down.  The wrestlers they had and storylines they utilized opened the doors for both WCW and WWF to become popular in the late '90s, and for people to deny that is lying to themselves.  ECW brought to the attention of Amercian fans the influx of Japanese and Mexican wrestling that WCW and WWE ended up using in their Cruiserweight/Light Heavyweight divisions.  Not only that, but ECW was a company that would take wrestlers deemed unvaluable to the 'big 2' and then make them valuable (Names coming to mind include Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Steven Richards, Raven, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Rey Mysterio), as all got some relatively good face time in WCW and WWE.  Also, they introduced great storylines that blurred the line between reality and fiction, which was later used by the WWE.  Their use of 'hardcore' matches also influenced WCW and WWE, both of whom started "Hardcore" divisions, giving home to wrestlers that previously were not being used and gave them new life, ironically (coming to mind the likes of Hardcore Holly, Viscera, Meng, Norman Smiley, etc.

I think ECW was both a good and a bad thing for pro wrestling. Yes it helped to usher in a new attitude era, a much more adult-oriented product but it also took a lot of the fun out of wrestling, which was a family event when I was a kid. No parent in their right mind was going to let their kids watch ECW so how are you going to create future fans? I also think ECW's removal of the rules really, really hurt wrestling for quite some time and it's only now starting to recover. Wrestling needs a certain amount of rules for things to make sense and have any meaning. Good guys follow the rules. Bad guys break them. It's a simple formula that worked in wrestling for many decades before ECW. ECW simply had all bad guys really. There wasn't anyone who was essentially good, just someone who wasn't quite as bad as someone else.

Where I think ECW was good was it was a great training and breeding ground for future talent and it was also a good place for veterans to rejuvenate and make a fresh start. That they actually also highlighted quality wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko and Eddy Guerrero was another plus. That it wasn't all hardcore no rules matches was good although I think the hardcore no rules matches dominated a little too much there.

Valid points, yes.  But, one could argue that in real life, there aren't really 'good' people.  Just people who aren't as bad as others.  Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY is perfect.  Everyone has bad thoughts, does bad things.  But, some are more bad than others.  For example, there's serial killers out there, guys who embezzle millions of dollars from the companies they work for, etc.  I hate my boss, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna stroll in and steal from them, even if I had the opportunity.  But that's another discussion entirely.

And, in relation to your statements, wrestling needed something to shake things up at the time.  They had been marketing to kids, and that worked in the '80s.  But in the '90s, the kids grew up (I was one of them.)  Sure, the whole 'good guy/bad guy' thing worked for it's time, but in the '90s, the generation I was a part of wanted different things.  Extreme sports saw an uprising: Skateboarding, the X Games, Ultimate Fighting, etc. all emerged.  Rap changed from Run DMC to harder sounds of Tupac and Biggie Smalls.  White Snake disappeared, and we wanted Nirvana and Alice in Chains.  Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction and The Usual Suspects helped change the ideals of the 'anti-hero', and stuff like Howard Stern was the norm.  I myself and a lot of teens I knew didn't want the wholesome image of Hulk Hogan or Macho Man.  We wanted to see more action, more chairs, etc, leading to the rise of Raven, Foley, Dreamer, etc.  Out with Hulk, in with Stone Cold.  Hence, Hogan's heel turn.  And it worked.  They needed it to survive.  Nowadays, going back to the 'family friendly' will help them, on a business level.  People my age are now older, having kids, and wouldn't let them watch it if it was the way we knew it in the '90s.  Eventually, I'm sure we'll see a resurgence of the hardcore style, but not for a few years.

But with the hardcore style also comes the risk of more injuries and shortened careers. Wrestlers in the 70s and early 80s often wrestled until well into their 50s, most of the hardcore ECW performers, even a lot of those still going, are shattered wrecks physically - the severe wear and tear and desire to please the fans by taking nasty bumps night after night really takes a toll. Old-school hardcore guys though know where to draw the line it seems which is why Abdullah wrestled until he was in his late 60s and the Sheik was probably wrestling just as long in his heyday.

The fact there's more pain pills being abused is likely a big factor in all the deaths these days too as guys don't know when they've taken their bodies too far until it's too late. In his book, Bret Hart talks about how Dynamite Kid would pop pain pills so he could keep doing his snap suplexes and other high impact moves night after night. Of course, now he's crippled from it....  Easy access to drugs, injury, pain and the pressure to perform under an hectic schedule, wrestling is certainly not easy.

Valid point, but, drugs are prevalent, regardless.  Look at guys like Carlito or Jake the Snake.  Both are big drug abusers and I wouldn't necessarily put them up as "poster children" of the hardcore style.  And you have guys like CM Punk, who comes from a somewhat hardcore background, and apparently doesn't touch alcohol, let alone pills or anything else.

I'd say wrestling, in and of itself, opens the floodgates of drugs, not necessarily the hardcore styles.  Mick Foley is a loving family man, doesn't mess with drugs.  Hulk Hogan is known for a limited moveset, yet did an interview claiming he smoked pot on occasion and used cocaine on occasion.  It's wrestling, period, that takes a toll.  Look at a guy like Grandmaster Sexay.  He wouldn't be labeled 'hardcore' and is known for using pills and alcohol.

I do think the hardcore style lends itself to a "Can you top this mentality?" often leading to more and sicker bumps being taken ... which I think is a big part of the reason for more guys getting hurt. Although steroid abuse as I understand it also leaves guys often to getting rather easily injured too. So the WWF's promoting a jacked appearance over a traditional wrestling appearance probably hasn't helped things either. I actually miss the days of the big rotund fat guys who could actually move around a ring surprisingly well and had the fat to take some bumps smaller men probably couldn't...guys like Adrian Adonis and Dick Murdoch were as good as anyone in the ring in their heyday (before Adonis ballooned up to over 400 pounds). Kind of why I like Mike Rotundo (I.R.S.)'s son Husky Harris and hope he does well in WWE following NXT.

One could also say that Dusty Rhodes fit that category, of the big rotund guy who could go.

I really miss the old school jobbers/enhancement guys who made some wrestlers look so good out there sometimes when they themselves were actually the more competent hand in the ring. There's been a little bit of a return of it but unfortunately now we see guys who should be rising the card (Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder) and capable veterans (William Regal) playing this role a bit too much these days...

I suppose you're funny, but, why insult members of the forum who do enjoy pro wrestling? (And I ain't one of 'em!)  Why not pass the thread over without comment?   :wink:

I am a big fan of Regal and Ryder.  Apparently I'm in the minority.

Yeah I like them both too. They really seem lost in the shuffle on Raw. These days with so few top federations (without any more WCW), talented guys really just don't have as many options available to them as perhaps they should.

Anyone else also notice that there's an awful lot of second and third generation wrestlers these days? Ted DiBiase has 3 sons trying to make it, Dusty Rhodes has 2 sons in WWE, Mike Rotundo has 2 sons 1 of whom is on NXT, Curt Hennig's son is on NXT, Davey Boys Smith's son is in WWE, Jim Neidhart's daughter, Jimmy Snuka's daughter and his son was there not so long ago too, Ricky Steamboat's son is trying to make it as is Ric Flair's...

I watched the documentary portion of Ricky Steamboat's DVD Set (the Life Story of the Dragon) and it felt very much like a kayfabe wrestling presentation. Everything that seemed to happen to Steamboat apparently "really did" happen including Roberts dropping him on his head on the concrete floor with a DDT and Randy Savage "hitting" him with a ring bell. ?! Still enjoyed it though. It was a fun viewing experience although I'm looking even more to checking out the matches on the set.

Favorite Current Wrestler: RVD, even 30+ years, he still kicking it as if it was still his golden years.

Favorite All Time: Sabu, He's is just insane, nothing else.

Fed. today: TNA, the old school ECW today.

Alltime:Original ECW, there's no comparison with all of the mayhem that is ECW, except for maybe TNA, as in how TNA is almost similar to ECW.

I'll let Tommy Explain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsfGySha9uw&feature=related

Personally I don't really see it. TNA's Orlando fans certainly aren't really all that much like ECW's Philly fans IMO. ECW did eventualy gain a surprising amount of mainstream popularity while TNA has always and continues to struggle to stay afloat. ECW was never as much about WWF and WCW cast-offs as it was about building its own stars whereas I think TNA has often sacrificed advancing homegrown talent in favour of said cast-offs....

Exactly.  ECW would use the 'cast-offs' briefly, but never at the expense of downgrading home-grown talent.  ECW would bring in say, Terry Funk or Dusty Rhodes, but both guys were professional and helped 'create' new stars.  Funk was involved in angles with Raven, Dreamer, and the Raven/Dreamer feud helped bring up and elevate Blue Meanie, The Pitbulls, Stevie Richards, and Shane Douglas.  Dusty Rhodes came in and helped out with guys like Steve Corino. 

I see a lot of old guys in TNA.  But, how willing are they to say they helped 'elevate' TNA buy feuding with and, if need be, losing to younger, home-grown talent TNA has, like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, etc. 

Yeah I was particularly put off by how TNA basically dumped Christopher Daniels jobbing him out to Val Venis. The guy should have become one of TNA's top guys and was an homegrown talent for them. I think they've also misued Abyss and Samoa Joe quite badly in this respect too. 

Watched WWE Smackdown tonight. It wasn't too bad, features lot of wrestling. In fact I'd say it's the show with the most actual quality in-ring wrestling we see on TV these days as the guys are actually given a bit of time to perform. The opener saw Kane defeat Kofi Kingston which helped build Kane as an agressive badass but also helped show a more aggressive side of Kofi. Then Cody Rhodes defeated an injured Christian in a surprisingly solid match. They sold the injury from last week very well and Christian is helping to build future WWE stars like Rhodes , whose intro reminds me of a shaving commercial  :bouncegiggle:, and Drew McIntyre who caused his shoulder injury. The Big Show then destroyed three jobbers in a squash with Straight Edge Society coming out and threatening him after the match. Just more Summerslam build-up for their handicap match. Then we got to see Drew Mcintyre lay a beating on Matt Hardy in an hard-hitting match continuing their long rivalry with McIntrye also injuring Hardy - they seem to be building to a tag match between Hardy & Christian vs. McIntyre & Rhodes here for some reason even though we got that few weeks ago. Then we got to MVP upset former World champion Jack Swagger with a surprise roll-up. I enjoyed the match and was happy to see MVP, who's been struggling, finally be given something. Not sure how this benefits either guy at this point aside from perhaps giving both guys an opportunity to showcase what they can do in some potentially great matches. Finally Rey Mysterio defeated the new Intercontinental champion Dolph Ziggler with Kane looking on as we build to Summerslam. This was a good match and really helped build Mysterio up as a convincing threat to Kane at Summerslam. Also there seems to be an hint of a possible Undertaker return at Summerslam. I think it's pretty much a certainty Undertaker comes back and names his assailant which most likely will turn out to be Kane although I kind of hope it's Mysterio for some reason. Overall a good Smackdown with lots of wrestling and a good build-up to Summerslam. Speaking of Summerslam, I really expect we'll see a surprise return there also by Triple H perhaps as the seventh member of Team WWE or perhaps during the Sheamus-Orton match.

On a side note, Garrison Cade passed away today.  Found out about it from Blue Meanie, actually.

 :bluesad: What a shame! He was only 29 years old and died of heart failure. Wonder if it's somehow drug-related? I remember his great tag team with Trevor Murdoch, a great old-school style tandem. Too bad they never seemed to get used right in WWE which didn't seem too interested in tag teams when they were they...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/08/former-wwe-wrestler-lance-cade-dies-at-29.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/08/former-wwe-wrestler-lance-cade-dies-at-29.html)

They were a decent team, and he was a good singles too.  I liked him. 

I'm not sure if he had a pre-existing condition or not.  I know a few years ago, on a plane ride with other WWE wrestlers, he had some sort of seizure and needed emergency help.  Jim Ross stated he 'made a big mistake' that resulted in the loss of his job.  From what I read, he apparently attended some kinda rehab center in February, so it may have been drugs.

Summerslam 2010 is tonight. Matches include:

Sheamus (Champion) vs. Randy Orton (Challenger) for the WWE Heavyweight title.

Kane (Champion) vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (Challenger) for the World Heavyweight title.

Dolph Ziggler (Champion) vs. Kofi Kingston (Challenger) for the Intercontinental title.

Alicia Fox (Champion) vs. Melina (Challenger) for the Divas title.

Team WWE (John Cena, Bret Hart, John Morrison, R-Truth, Edge, Chris Jericho & surprise partner?) vs. Team NEXUS (Wade Barrett, Heath Slater, Justin Gabriel, Skip Sheffield, David Otunga, Darren Young & Michael Tarver) in a Survivor Series style Elimination Match

3 on 1 Handicap Match: The Big Show vs. The Straight Edge Society (C.M. Punk, Joseph Mercury and Luke Gallows)

What are your predictions for the show? Here's mine:

Sheamus retains the belt when Triple H returns gunning for him which in turn also upsets Orton leading to 3 way tension. Miz may also look to capitalize and cash-in Money in the Bank but I don't think he does it successfully here).

Kane defeats Rey Mysterio and attempts to put him a casket out of which rises the returning Undertaker grabbing Kane by the throat setting up a World title match between the brothers of destruction...yeah yet another bout between those two I expect.

Ziggler narrowly defeats Kingston who most likely gets disqualified for flying off the handle due to Vickie Guerrero's outside interference.

Melina defeats Fox to regain the Divas title.

The Miz joins Team WWE but dissension within the team costs them the match as one member of Team WWE is secretly in cahoots with the NEXUS most likely the Miz.

Big Show defeats a member of the Straight Edge Society to win the match but fails to get his hands on Punk yet. Wouldn't be surprised if another new member of the SES isn't soon revealed.

I would like to see SummerSlam.  Can't afford it.  Bought TNA's Pay-Per-View last week, and can't afford another one on the same bill.  Lot of money to pay out.

I thought HHH had surgery and was filming a movie? Would he return this early?

Yeah Triple H hasn't returned yet but I kind of figured it might be soon as he's on the cover of the latest WWE Magazine and they hint at his return in their ads for it. The Undertaker and Daniel Bryan did make their returns at Summerslam though and I actually got the method of Undertaker's return right in my prediction above and also the Miz did help Nexus but it was against Daniel Bryan who was the surprise seventh member of Team WWE. Melina did win the Divas title, Ziggler-Kingston ended in a no contest when NEXUS interfered attacking them both, Kane beat Rey Mysterio and was attacked by Undertaker after the match but eventually got the best of Taker but you know Taker will get his revenge in time, Randy Orton beat Sheamus by DQ which means Sheamus keeps the belt, Big Show defeated Joseph Mercury to defeat the SES in the handicap match and Team WWE narrowly defeated Team NEXUS. Tonight on Raw, the members of the NEXUS took on WWE guys in a special challenge that if any NEXUS guy lost, he'd get booted off the team. Wade Barrett defeated Chris Jericho in a match I figured would be better but was rather disappointing, Michael Tarver upset Daniel Bryan with a roll-up following a distraction from the Miz and his new NXT protege ALex Riley (still kinda of expect Miz to join NEXUS at some point but doubt that will last long), Justin Garbiel beat Randy Orton by countout when Sheamus came out and brawled with Orton, Heath Slater defeated Edge by countout too, Skip Sheffield and David Otunga beat R-Truth & John Morrison in a tag bout but John Cena defeated Darren Young and the NEXUS all attacked him as the show went off the air. Overall it was a surprisingly disappointing show although I understand why they felt the need to make NEXUS look strong again but sadly most of these matches made them look weak instead of strong.

I am glad Daniel Bryan is back, but he has to STOP losing matches.

The NEXUS angle could go somewhere.  But they only make them look strong while attacking a single wrestler as a group.  In individual matches, they look weak.  Not the way to really get the group over.

I completely agree with you there. Seems like whenever anyone starts to seriously get over in WWE (Bryan Daniel got quite a pop on Raw), the WWE goes all out to squash their momentum. The idea of no one being bigger than the company seems to get re-enforced to ridiculous extremes these days. The NEXUS group are getting over too which is perhaps WWE is already sewing some dissension in their ranks.

Anybody watching TNA Impact! these days? Is it even worth me adding SpikeTV to watch it?

From my perspective, adding Spike Tv if you don't already have it, well, it's not overly worth it just for Impact.

It's part of my cable package, so I like watching it just for an alternative, but it's not something I'd tune into on a daily basis.  Some angles look promising, then they alternate the angle so it leaves you looking baffled.

Watched WWE NXT last night on the Score (in Canada). Was disappointed to see Husky Harris get eliminated but he seems to be moving on to some angle with Cody Rhodes so hopefully the kid will get a shot and a chance to stick around. He's a very agile big man and is decidedly different which is somewhat refreshing in today's WWE where everyone's much too the same. Couldn't believe Kaval actually mentioned TNA on the air in his interview time...suspect he'll soon be history in WWE which might well be what he wants considering. I really hope Alex Riley doesn't win the thing as he seems kind of bland to me yet given the other two left are arguably even blander, that's what's likely to happen. I did hope Daniel Bryan might come in as a surprise opponent and beat the tar out of Riley but it never happened.

With regards to Impact!, I actually added SpikeTV one time before only to remove it because TNA Impact! featured short spot-fest oriented matches and angles that never seemed to go anywhere...doesn't sound like it's changed much. Anyways WWE is often lame too but does still offer up the occasional great match, especially on Smackdown. I really wish I could see Japan's NOAH and ROH. I loved what I caught of them when I had the Fight Network a while back (but on there they repeat the same wrestling shows over and over too much).

Kaval is a great in ring competitor, who has competed in TNA before, as well as on WWE's Secondary shows like WWF Metal and WWF Sunday Night Heat, under the name Low-Ki.

I'm a big fan of his, he's a great cruiserweight/X-Division style wrestler. 

TNA now is doing an angle with Ric Flair leading a "4 Horseman" style group, called Fortune.  It features Beer Money Inc., AJ Styles, Matt Morgan and a few others.  Their storyline features them being p**sed off at Dixie Carter bringing in the ECW guys: Dreamer, Raven, Foley, Stevie Richards, RVD, and a few others like Sabu.  Kevin Nash and Sting are kinda teaming up, with Sting kinda being a heel right now.  If the station is a station you gotta pay for, then don't add it.  But if you can get it free, it's okay to watch.

Mr. Kennedy is quite popular there, now.

I could add it at no extra cost but it would mean sacrificing certain channels I'd probably enjoy more (the extra learning channels I've added on my satellite package). I think there's an option to add the single channel for a small monthly charge but I doubt it's worth it..actually I'd probably be better off adding the Fight Network again if I add anything as at least then I'd see footage from TNA, NOAH and ROH albeit a bit behind the times). I actually liked TNA best during 2004-2005 from what I've seen of it. I also liked it when Samoa Joe first burst on the scene. When the WWE guys came in and kind of took over in 2007-2008, I kind of lost interest.

Watched Smackdown tonight and really enjoyed it more than I expected although a lot of the characters are getting kind the same old same old week after week - it's too many of the same matches again and again. I did very much enjoy the debuting Alberto Del Rio, who I instantly hated as he looks like he stepped out of a wine commercial to me. But hey, that's what you want from a good heel. The opening match was Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Ziggler yet again for the Intercontinental title with Kofi winning by DQ when Vickie Guerrero interfered. This match has just been too overdone lately and this feud is getting boring. The second match saw Serena debut in a tag team match with Luke Gallows vs. The Big Show and Kelly Kelly. It was pretty bad but thankfully short and Serena, who actually has a far better background as a wrestler than Kelly thankfully won. Sadly though, the Straight Edge Society seems to have run its course. Gallows and Mercury just don't seem to have any real charisma - I kind of wish they were made up of the classic ROH Second City Saints instead - Colt Cabana & Ace Steele as given the chance I know they could be entertaining and have legit history with Punk. The third match saw Christian upset Drew McIntyre again in a surprisingly good match that saw McIntyre work over Christian's injured arm. Still again, they've done this match too often lately. At the end though, Drew McIntyre and Cody Rhodes attacked both Christian and Matt Hardy. Kind of hope they're forming a stable of young upstarts on Smackdown. Husky Harris might do well with them but would seem pretty out of place too I guess. The main event saw the debuting Alberto Del Rio, arriving in a Rolls Royce honking as he drove out and having his own Spanish ring announcer, actually upset Rey Mysterio Jr. making him tap out to a cross armbreaker, a legit move also known as the Fujiwara armbar in wrestlling, after working over his shoulder throughout the entire match. Loved the way both McIntyre and Del Rio worked over their opponents wearing them down. Del Rio added some good freshness to Raw tonight, something the show badly needs.

Hmm so the mysterious General Manager on Raw hates Bret Hart uh? I suspect Batista given Bret was GM when he quit and had him kicked off Raw. I kind of hope it's someone new though - would love to see a return by say Mr. Bob Backlund and Goldberg could prove interesting too.

I dunno where they're going with the General Manager of Raw.  I read/heard that they were gonna use Abraham Washington as the General Manager.  But, if the GM hates Bret Hart, they'd probably make it someone with a history with Bret, ie: HHH, HBK, Stone Cold Steve Austin.  But, seeing as it's WWE, they would make it be Washington, as it makes no sense.  Stone Cold's done with WWE, from what I understand, HBK is completely done with wrestling.  That would leave HHH, or Batista.  But I think he's done wrestling for the time being.  It'd be interesting to see where it goes. 

Yeah that actually wouldn't surprise me but I imagine if it's revealed to be Washington, a lot of fans will be disappointed and lots of others will being going "Who?!". With all the build-up now, they almost need it to be someone interesting...I'd love for it to be Mr. Bob Backlund, back and as crazy as he was in the 1990s. Imagine if it was the Honky Tonk Man, the Iron Sheik or the Ultimate Warrior?! Now that would be crazy and unpredictable. Probably not too likely in today PG WWE though.

Watched Raw last night. Thought it was an half-decent show but as always the matches played out much too predictably and were disappointingly short. The whole set-up was the GM is going to let Sheamus pick his opponent for Night of Champions after watching the matches and picking who impressed him most. Edge beat R-Truth in a quick, forgettable match. Chris Jericho beat the Great Khali by submission playing up Khali's "injured" leg - was O.K. considering it was the lumbering Khali. New Divas champ Melina beat Jillian Hall after Hall dominated the whole match with her powerbomb-roll-up pin combination - not bad for a throwaway quick Raw Divas match. The Miz defeated John Cena by DQ in the best match of the night by far. Miz dominated almost the entire match and really took it to Cena. In the end, Daniel Bryan came out to gain a measure of revenge on Miz - best part of the show by far. Vladimir Kozlov and Santino Marella upset Jimmy & Jay Uso (Rikishi's sons who sadly seem to be getting buried already in favor of a silly romance angle between Santino and Tamina, Jimmy Snuka's daughter who yes looks like a female Jimmy Snuka?! :buggedout: ). Finally Randy Orton beat Ted DiBiase & John Morrison in surprisingly quick fashion in a Triple Threat match (both Morrison & DiBiase are getting buried on Raw as is R-Truth - all 3 would probably be better off on Smackdown). Then Sheamus comes out and announces his chosen opponent not for Night of Champions but for tonight - then calls down Zack Ryder whom he promptly destroys. After the match, Wade Barrett comes out and challenges Sheamus, the ban on the Nexus getting title matches earlier in the show, for a title match and the GM complies but announces it will now be a six-pack six man challenge with Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho.

Wow! Should the Miz ever be p**sed after that. Not only was he attacked by Bryan but despite winning and definitely being the most impressive guy of the night IMO was even left out of the title match. Hope they play that up...I suspect they will. Hope it's Bryan vs. Miz for the U.S. title at Night of Champions.

I gotta say, The Miz has vastly improved.  Gotten much, much better.

I'm not fond that the best catchphrase he has is "I'm AWESOME" but eh, he's still young.

The Miz is by far the most improved guy in WWE. Cody Rhodes seems to be improving quite a bit on Smackdown! too these days. His "Dashing" gimmick actually seems to be getting over for him.

Apparently WWE has released Serena (apparently for not living her gimmick in public - personally I kind of find it offensive WWE is using the straight-edge lifestyle as a gimmick although in Punk's case, at least he actually is straight edge). Hmm wonder what this bodes for the Straight Edge Society? - I expect we'll see Punk on his own again very soon. It's too bad WWE missed the boat completely with Scotty Goldman/Colt Cabana as he was a great partner for Punk in ROH... Might this be a new wave of WWE releases?

Not for nothing, but wasn't Punk photographed a few years back with a beer out at some club?   :question:

Not that I'm aware of...as far as I've heard, he really does live the lifestyle although some would argue with his drinking caffeine, he's already broken it - he does have a Pepsi tattoo although caffeine is very debatable to some as Minor Threat, who originated the whole thing, used to be known for drinking Coco-Cola too. It'd be incredibly hypocritical of him to have that huge tattoo across his stomach and not live the lifestyle...

I'm not saying he doesn't live the lifestyle.  Very much well could. 

Doesn't necessarily mean he was drinking...bars offer water, sodas, and in most cases some kinda juice (apple, tomato, orange).  If he wants to be the only sober one, that's his choice.  Lord knows I hate hanging with a bunch of drunks.

It doesn't stop me from going out anywhere I want to go. I usually just buy bottled water. When I want something to drink everyday, I usually buy a bottle of apple juice. Of course I recycle the bottles.

Tonight's Smackdown was lame. Very lame. Kane destroyed Rey Mysterio Jr. and Alberto Del Rio came out and attacked Rey. C.M. Punk destroyed JTG to set an example for the SES. Kofi Kingston beat Dolph Ziggler by countout in perhaps the best match of the night but wasn't anything we haven't seen before. Alberto Del Rio, who seems to be a great new heel, defeated a job guy named Carlos Sanchez. Big Show decimated Luke Gallows as a disappointed Punk looked on. Then the show ended with a boring cross promo between Kane and the Undertaker. One of the worst Smackdown I've ever seen. Just boring and filled with pointless, boring skits and feuds that seem to be going on much too long. Too many talented guys are just glorified enhancement talent in WWE these days.

So, Luna Vachon passed away.  She was 48.

IMO I'm very disappointed with wrestling in the last 5 years, I'm a WWF 80's buff but still.
Even the late 90's had fun skits, chezzy but fun. The Rock was great Stonecold was awesome, Undertaker my favorite. You wanted to watch RAW you wanted it not to end.

How about ECW back in the day, it was the best! Thats over now for sure. It can't be replaced by TNA or WWE ever.

Also, I'm sick of John Cena, HHH, Egde and Randy Orton fighting the same 3 guys over and over. Ppv after Ppv it feels the same... pointless.

Sad to hear about Luna Vachon, RIP.

 :buggedout: Luna Vachon died at 48?  :bluesad: . Recall her as a good in-ring performer when she was actually given a chance to perform. The daughter of Paul "Butcher" Vachon, she actually started out in Florida along with Kevin Sullivan back when he was doing the Satan worshipping gimmick I believe. Recall pics of her wearing freaky make-up and having a snake wrapped around her. I saw her manage the masked Blackharts in Stampede Wrestling who were made up of her former (Tom Nash) and future husband (Dave Heath/Vampire Warrior). She had a great body then too. I also liked her as Bam Bam Bigelow's manager. She never seemed as good a fit with the later people she got paired up with and as a Diva, she was decidedly against the grain and of course she couldn't succeed when it became less important how you wrestled as to how you looked in a bikini. Despite being a better wrestler than almost every other woman on the roster, she usually got jobbed out to less talented performers. RIP Luna (Gertrude) Vachon.

ECW was my favorite, for many many reasons.  I loved the late '90s WWE: Stone Cold, Foley, Undertaker, Rock, HHH, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVb0eM0lJhU

Then I'm sure you remember this funny skit.

Kurt Angle sings to Vince McMahon to make him feel better, after Stone Cold tried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9YVjpVV8Es

Father of Lance Cade: "Linda McMahon disrespected my family"

http://www.theday.com/article/20100826/NWS12/308269378/1017?utm_source=bleacherreport.com (http://www.theday.com/article/20100826/NWS12/308269378/1017?utm_source=bleacherreport.com)

This is a pretty interesting read. There's a sad lot of truth going on there. Wrestlers aren't supposed to abuse prescription medications yet are pushed and pushed to work even while hurt to keep their spots. Wrestlers aren't supposed to be taking steroids yet you know a lot of wrestlers fear they won't be noticed or hired unless they do (and no doubt many are actually encouraged behind the scenes to take them in order to get ahead). I'm not saying anyone should cave in these pressures. More power to those who can succeed without such help.

What's happened to the wrestlers in this article, not to mention numerous others, is a prime example of the dangers of abusing prescription pain pills. Don't cave into the pressures in life to take drugs...they may will kill you before you know it.

What shocks me is the fact that wrestlers do take steroids.  I'm not a smart guy when it comes to steroids, but I would see the reasoning behind real athletes (football, baseball, basketball, etc) taking them, as they would in some way enhance their performance.  And, I am a wrestling fan, but they don't really 'enhance' the performers in any way other than making them "bigger" muscularly. 

As for pain pills, Jake the Snake kinda summed it up in Beyond the Mat.  At the time of his 'big run' with WWE, he was saying that he was on the road at something like, 35-50 straight days, then would be getting maybe 6 days off.  Then be on the road for another 60 day stretch.  The resulting pain meant you'd take a pill to numb it, then eventually, one leads to 2, 2 to 4.  Then it's not just painkillers: you get tired from the constant travel, exercise, match, interviews, etc, that you can't sleep.  So you take other pills to sleep.  Then, you're groggy and can't wake up, so some turn to cocaine to get that energy boost.  Etc. 

I can speak from my own experience though, painkillers are a b***h.  I've used them and struggle with addiction.  It's a beast.  Probably the worst things to get off of, as they're very affordable and easily accessable.

It's disturbing but you know it's typically been rare to see smaller, more naturally built guys get pushed to the top of WWE. There are perhaps an handful but I think it's likely a small number. So most guys unfortunately turn to steroids and HGH to build up their muscles and size and then no doubt find ways around the random steroid testing. Look at photos of Eddie Guerrero pre-WWF and when he was in the WWF - there's a big difference there. Same with Rey Mysterio. Same with Chris Benoit.  I'm sure there's other we could name too. In the old days of wrestling, wrestlers were typically well... more fat. Sure there were some muscular guys but they were far outnumbered by the guys packing a belly but yet who could get the job done in the ring night after night. The fact that there were more different wrestlers could travel to and compete in led to wrestlers having more options at their disposal - if one place didn't treat them right, they actually could go to another. That also helped keep different wrestlers fresh and interesting wherever they went. And it also likely cut down a bit on the hard schedule they were working if it got too demanding. A change of scenery could do you good. Nowadays the WWE has almost in essence a monopoly over pro wrestling entertainment...

Dusty Rhodes is a guy that comes to mind.  Not a great looking guy at all.  Jake Roberts too.  Roberts wasn't 'fat', but certainly didn't have the build of say, Hulk Hogan.  Nowadays they're all 'jacked', so to speak.  I can't say for certain, but I'd say Jericho and The Miz look to have somewhat 'normal' physical statures for guys their size.  Mind you, I can't say they have or haven't used steroids or any other drug.

Sad to see so many drug related problems in wrestling, but it's not just wrestling.  Many outlets of life have people with drugs going on, bars and restaurants especially.  Restaurants are a high stress job with easy access to drugs and a lot of money (tips, hourly wages, long hours, etc) make for people looking for ways to calm down or get energy.

Only 3 wrestling fans here?

Anyway, do you guys have any favorite botches? Past or present.

Some of my favorites lol...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhGF4C_GjQY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yP-T3ZCsg&feature=related

Let's throw the Shockmaster's debut in there...that has to be the single most hilarious debut in wrestling history.

Watched the 900th episode of Raw and caught Smackdown and NXT this week. What I mostly remember about it is how disappointingly predictable both Raw and Smackdown were - the days of they really surprising us in wrestling almost seem gone these days. Every time played out like I expected and it was majorly disappointing to not see any legends make a surprise appearance on the 900th episode - I know they're emphasizing a youth movement in WWE right now. But man everything is the same old, same old---it's gotten boring. The same matches seem to be going on endlessly on Smackdown - Rhodes-Hardy-Christian-McIntyre or some combination of the 4, Kofi-Ziggler, Kane-Undertaker, Big Show-Punk -just going on and on. Raw has had a few more surprises recently thanks to Nexus and Bret Hart but that show too has mostly become predictable. NXT was a surprise to me as Kaval actually won the thing! But I cannot see how WWE will use him well. I keep hoping they're going to use guys like Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger, MVP, C.M. Punk, Daniel Bryan better but more often than not, they disappoint me.

Thought the 900th Raw was this week for some reason.  I dunno.  Guess I missed it.

I was watching the recent dvd releases of the Raw 15th Anniversary 3 Disc set and Smackdown's 10th Anniversary 3 Disc set.  Not like it used to be, but I still watch it.  I'm hoping some of the stars can do their thing and make something, but the writing has gone down.

I'll probably miss any and all wrestling this week.  I'm on vacation, and I won't be around this week to watch it, or even near a computer. :teddyr:

I'm hoping they can do something with Kaval, but seeing what their track record is, I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah the 900th episode WAS last Monday. It was a very disappointing show I felt. They booked a Bret-Undertaker match but of course Nexus and Kane kept that from happening. No other legends appeared although they teased Austin during C.M. Punk's segment where he ran down the most disgraceful moments in Raw history and of course Punk's was Austin's beer fire hosing of the Corporation. The main event was Chris Jericho, Edge, John Cena, Sheamus & Randy Orton vs. The Nexus (Barrett, Gabriel, Tarver, Slater & Otunga). Jericho walked out, Edge got himself intentionally DQed early so it was essentially Sheamus, Cena & Orton vs. the Nexus with Orton going over big in predictable fashion.

What I don't like is nothing really surprises anymore and the matches are usually just rushed spotfests these days. Wrestling since they took the booking out of the hands of the former wrestlers really seems to have gone down the crapper. Now it's like the redo the same basic storyline repeatedly over and over (one pretty similar to the Smackdown vs. Raw video games in fact).

Well I have to say they surprised me this week. The booking was spot on almost all week. They've built up this new Kane-Undertaker match perfectly with Undertaker seemingly in a weakened state and Kane strong going into the PPV. Alberto Del Rio is the best new heel I've seen in a while. C.M. Punk looked impressive against Undertaker on Smackdown this week and his promos are stronger than ever. Randy Orton seems right on the verge of being WWE's next mega-star and they've booked an interesting match between him and John Cena for the Raw season premiere this Monday. The matches this week have been great - I was very impressed. John Morrison vs. Chris Jericho in a Raw show stealer. MVP vs. Jack Swagger also had a great match on Smackdown. It's like everything for Night of Champions is coming together perfectly so far...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko802dyf39Q&feature=related
 
Nova gets choked out.
B.W.O.'s Rodman gets the nastiest TBONE Tazplex EVER.
The Blue Meanie quits B.W.O.
Taz ends the B.W.O. then calls out WCW and WWF.
Rick Rude on commentary.

NSFW.