Predator 2

[Robocop]

How did it set the path?  It was a brief blink and you'll miss it moment, a small easter egg, as opposed to the entire four issue comic series that preceded it.    How is it what sets the path, when something else comes first and many many other things come between it and a completley unconnected movie?  There wasn't even any talk of an Aliens vs Predator movie for years and years, all the while they continued to make games, novels, toys, etc etc.

I fail to see why this is so hard for you to grasp. By inserting the sneak peak of an Alien skull in the Predator trophy room it sparked off the debate that further down the line the whole concept was going to cross its way over to film because it was loosely visable in a film . I know it wasn't extensive, but the scene was long enough for fans to recognize the hint (unless they are unfamiliar with Alien.) From this point onward the potential match up (which started up before P2 was even made) grew stronger and stronger resulting in a popularity growth that spread over a whole host of different mediums but the biggest kick start boost of all started with teasing the fans in P2. Although and I probably should've mentioned this earlier; thats not to say the other outlets (comics, video games, toys, novels) didn't play a part in the development of the film either, more so after P2, because they did.

I dislike the term true fans.  It's a hollow meaningless phrase used only to make one group feel like they're more important than another.  Really, what is a "true fan"?  How is it different than a regualr fan?  Does that mean there are false fans?  It's just so pretentious.

Well I already explained my defination behind the meaning and its a valid one that doesn't come off as arrogant or pretentious.

Which is why you just did it, right? 
"You should stop calling people a jerk.  It makes you look like a jerk."  See where that gets us?  Nowhere.

I didn't publicly bash or insult anybody directly, WTF. Unless you're referring to the whole "true fans" thing which up till this point I assumed you'd gathered by now.

You said it shouldn't have been made because it was doomed to failure.  Now you're trying to back out of what you said, claiming it's "just your opinion" all the sudden

I stand by that statement. It's my opinion that it was doomed a failure when translated to film and that hasn't changed. Do I have to keep backing up my claims stating its my opinion this..., its my opinion that..., etc. It should come clear when I'm presenting a fact vs giving a opinion on the issue. To me its rather straight forward.

You come out of nowhere blasting a movie that's only vaguely connected to another movie that you don't like and is little more than a footnote in the series as a whole as being the cause of a movie that you dislike.  Why don't you just blame the movie that you don't like for being a bad movie instead of the movie that's hardly connected to it at all and even then only in the most vague a way as possible.

I dislike both movies, Predator 2 & AVP that is. I've already provided reasons for my displeasure with the former in my original post to this thread which is what the topic is about before we started trailing off into slightly different territory. In conclusion, P2 was a disappointing sequel that spawned an even worse crossover series.

Better idea.  Why don't we just get back to talking about the movie that this topic is named after anyway?

How about that, we agree on something.   
     
   

 

[Robocop]

Also, there have been a good amount of video games based on the concept which I hear are very good. I haven't played them, but I hear good things.

They certainly are. AVP2 developed by Monolith Productions in 2001 for the PC is a blast. haven't played AVP1 by Rebellion, but the new AVP (which I call AVP3), not so good, but not terrible. It was by Rebellion too.   

[Mofo Rising]

Robocop.

All this talk is a goof, don't worry about being right. Have fun and don't worry about getting one up on people. We're arguing about these stupid movies for fun.

[Hammock Rider]

I liked Predator 2. It was a fun B movie. It wasn't up to the standard of the original but how likely is it that it would have been? I think it's a mistake to expect pure movies out of Hollywood. That's not the focus there. I do think we should expect good movies from them though. If they want to see films as just product there is not much I can do about it, except maybe elect to not see those movies. On the other hand, if I am paying good money for a product I definitely want my money's worth.  For me Predator 2 was a decent action sequel. I liked it much better than the Matrix sequals, for example. But that's just me.

[Mofo Rising]

For those who haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zn53yhjsDM

[diamondwaspvenom]

I liked Predator 2.

Dah. Predator 2 ist good movie.  

[Robocop]

For those who haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zn53yhjsDM

I love that video, very well put together with awesome SPX and great suit designs. Batman hasn't wore grey tights since the campy Adam West TV show, so that was good to see. 

[Robocop]

I heard something like that from a unreliable source. So I just automatically assumed it wasn't legit. 

[WilliamWeird1313]

I liked Predator 2.

Dah. Predator 2 ist good movie.  

Double dah. I know I am EXTREMELY in the minority here, but I actuallly prefer Predator 2 to the original. Is it as well-crafted a film? No. Is it thought-out as well, conceptualized as well? No. Nor is it executed as well as the first one. That's how it almost always is with sequel.

Of course, I've never been accused of having an overabundance of taste. Nor would I want to be. I've often find myself charmed by the so-called "crappy" films of the world more than the so-called "good" films. Sames go for "inferior" sequels. For instance, I looooove The Exorcist. BUT... I love The Exorcist 2 even more.

The first Predator is a classic of the sci-fi/action genre, no argument there. But, honestly, is Arnold really that great an actor? No. Despite some people saying that Glover was terrible in Predator 2, I kind of like him in it. I think his casting is a bit unexpected, especially when you consider he's following up the musclebound super-soldier who starred in the first one. I've always like the "hardened, grizzled, over-the-hill, seen-it-all" type characters much more than the "super-strong, invincible, elite commando" types. Does Glover always work in the role? Is he always believeable? No and no. But, for what it's worth, I like him in this flick. I'll take "too old for this s**t" over "hasta la vista" any day. And I'm not even a Lethal Weapon fan!

I also really liked the city setting. I think the whole concept of our "developed, civilized urban areas" being the aliens' "jungle" works great, and I think OUR jungle being THEIR jungle (as it is in the first Predator) isn't as good. Showing us as the animals in someone else's hunting grounds, when we think we're in the pinnacle of our civilization, is humbling and horrific. In the jungle, everyone's an animal, everyone is both the hunter AND the hunted, so it doesn't really hit the nail on the end as hard (the "nail" here being the Predator franchise's core concept of Earth serving as a big game hunt to a more advanced, but eerily similar, extraterrestrial culture).

I also like the over-the-top ultraviolent depiction of near-future Los Angeles. It's reminds me of Robocop, depicting its setting as a crime-riddled hellhole.

One of my favorite elements of Predator 2 (which might seem like a small aspect to some people, but not to me) is the score, which I think is just superb. And I liked the development of the Predator mythology as well. To this day, when I think of what a Predator alien is supposed to be like, I think of the depictions from Predator 2, which were much deeper and meaningful than the superficial revelations of the first picture. In the first film, the Predator was little more than a hunter (despite the slightly "honorable warrior" overtones of the creature's final fate in Predator 1). In Predator 2, the alien is injected with a great deal more samurai influence, which I loved. Honestly, I think later Predator franchise entries, including many of the subsequent books, comics, and, yes, video games, oft-times revealed too much Predator mythos info, stuff that I think conflicts with the depiction from Predator 2 (in my book, the definitive depiction), and that which I reject as canon.

As far as the acting, ...Morton Downey's presence is sort of a guilty pleasure. Some people have said that Paxton is irritating in the film, but I disagree. Truth be told, I've never found Paxton to be an irritating presence. I actually like some of his goofier performances, like the one he has here. I can't help but smile when he's making an ass out of himself onscreen. His character in Predator 2 sort of reminds me of a less-obnoxious, better-adjusted version of Chet from Weird Science. And then there's What's-Her-Name. I can't remember it right now, and I'm too lazy to google her, but the pregnant chick in the movie. You know the one. I think the only other movie I know her from is The Running Man (my all-time number one favorite Arnie flick, by the way) and though she's not terrific, she isn't terrible either. The Running Man connection though is enough to give me a cheap thrill.

But the best of the best, in my eyes, is Gary... freakin' ...Busey. He's been a better actor in other films, but here the patented Busey insanity is in bloom, without being completely impenetrable (as it seems to be 100% of the time nowadays). He's still generally in control of his faculties, but you can see the seeds of the maniac he would one day become. He's intense, weird, but still reasonable.

Sometimes, with Busey, I get the sense that maybe he's not crazy... maybe he's just too damn brilliant to be understood.

Of course, there are numerous problems and contrivances that work against Predator 2. In many cases, it's a matter of personal taste. Some people look at the scene of the Predator in the bathroom, with the little old lady with the broom standing outside, as a poor, failed, and inappropriate attempt at humor. I think it's a hoot. Cheesy and stupid, yes. But that's what I find funny. But then you have things like the previously mentioned scene in which Busey is bisected, but the fate of the upper half of his body goes unknown. I've always been confused by that moment in the film, and I kind of get the sense that it was a casualty of editing room wankery. I simply canNOT believe that no one, during the making of this film, commented on the fact that Busey's upper body is mysteriously not falling to the ground after he's cut in half. I find it much more likely that something was cut out of the movie that leaves a gaping hole in the picture in which no rationality can now be found. It wouldn't be the first time.

It's also a little ridiculous that the Predator and Glover keep running into one another. At a certain point, yes, the Predator is specifically pursuing Glover's character, but before that, it appears that the entire plot falls together as a result of numerous convenient coincidental encounters between a tough-as-nails police officer and an extraterrestrial killing machine.

Even still, I like it. The previously stated reason of the Predator's depiction and the expansion of the Predator mythology being chief among them. But, overall, I think it's just as a good, fun action flick. Flawed, but no more than many a sequel.

And, for the record, I was actually greatly amused by the voodoo Rastafarian drug dealing crime lords. Call me tasteless, but I found it to be a groovy combination of exotic originality and absurd cheesiness.

[RD]

Anyone hear the rumor that in "predators" they were going to have a na'vi head on the predator's trophy column but decided not to?

That would have been hilarious.

[rebel_1812]

I kind of liked it.  It wasn't as good as the original but it was still a good action film and I would take it over alot of modern day action films anytime.

[Crom]

I liked Predator 2 a lot. It was different, it had a fun b-movie cast, it was well paced, and had some memorable scenes and set pieces, and neither took itself too seriously or too broadly comical. It also wasn't afraid to get a little messy.

Sure, it is by no means perfect, but I'll still take Predator 2 over AvP, AvP: Requiem or Predators any damn day.

That's just me though. :)

[Neville]

I already had heard of the bad reviews when the VHS hit my videostore, but bein a teenager I had to give it a go. And I loved it! Fast paced, some great action scenes... back then I probably thought it was better than the original, which then I found a bit dull. anatema, yes, I know.

With the years I've started noticing the bits where it falls apart, like the increasingly silly final act or the whole vodoo subplot, but it still remains a guilty plasure of mine, and I won't switch channels if I stumble into a TV airing.