Proposed Texas immigration law contains convenient loophole for ‘the help’

[Nukie 2]

Back on the experience bit for a sec.  I always thought that was something of a red herring.  The proof is in the pudding; Bush HAD executive experience, but made some significant mistakes during his two terms.  Obama had the opportunity to poke the "no experience" claim in the eye, but he has failed to do so.  I don't think history is going to paint a picture of him that says "effectiveness," and the experience thing may always be where the finger is pointed for that.

What I would like to see in ANY President (either party, any race) is a stricter adherence to the Constitution in terms of enumerated powers.

What a great stance: everyone sucks!
It almost makes me want to do nothing, oh but I replied-- oh silly me.

[indianasmith]

I voted for Alan Keyes back in 1996.  I knew he wasn't goping to win, but I didn't really want to vote for Dole, and I admired Keyes unabashed opposition to abortion, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

On the governor thing - Texas is the second largest state in the Union, both geographically and in population.  It shares a 1200 mile border with a foreign country, and the governor of Texas deals with the President of Mexico on a pretty regular basis.  In fact, I would argue that the governorship of Texas is one of the best training grounds imaginable for the Presidency.

Now, as far as Bush goes, believe me when I say I recognize he was far from perfect.  But he understood some fundamental truths: The British and Israelis are the truest friends and most faithful Allies America has ever had.  The French are fundamentally untrustworthy.  And Islamic fundamentalism is the most dangerous ideaology on earth. Any person who can't grasp those simple concepts has no business in the White House.

Anyway, Nukie, I enjoy discussing things on this forum.  I appreciate the generally civil tone and honest affection our members have for each other.  You and I obviously have enormous differences, but I enjoy discussing them.

[Allhallowsday]

I voted for Alan Keyes back in 1996.  I knew he wasn't goping to win, but I didn't really want to vote for Dole, and I admired Keyes unabashed opposition to abortion, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

Good stuff. 

...The British and Israelis are the truest friends and most faithful Allies America has ever had.  The French are fundamentally untrustworthy.  And Islamic fundamentalism is the most dangerous ideaology on earth. Any person who can't grasp those simple concepts has no business in the White House...

You're worried about the French?  Oh yes, the British characterization of the French... And... what about the rest of the world?? 

[Nukie 2]

I don't like how they have this thing called a "French Dip", it's toasted and supposed to be crispy, yet I get this tiny bowl of stock to dip it into.
I just don't trust the French because of that

[Mofo Rising]

I was going to delete the majority of my earlier post, since thinking back on it I thought it had no real substance, and was divisive at best. Unfortunately, I was sans internet access, so didn't have the opportunity. Luckily, there were several posts of substance responding to it, so I wouldn't delete it now.

At any rate, I wasn't attacking "executive" experience, it was the "foreign policy" experience. indianasmith has made a good post regarding Bush's experience. I would say indiananasmith has a good point, but it seems to me that there is no training ground for foreign policy in any of the current political tracks. Then again, George Bush, Sr. was head of the C.I.A. for many years. One would hope some of it rubbed off on his kid.

I don't want to get further into "cultivating enemies" in this thread. I'll argue it elsewhere, but it really it doesn't have much bearing on the thread topic. And I don't mean that to ignore the arguments presented, which are valid and arguable (and which I genuinely enjoy hearing).

Back to the original post, it is a hideous double-standard. What the law says is that is a crime to illegally stay in the United States, unless you are providing somebody somewhere with cheap, under-the-table labor. This is because if the law was followed as written, "'a large segment of the Texas population' would wind up in prison." Well, yes, that should be the case if you assist criminal activity. Apparently that should only matter to the illegals themselves, instead of the large majority of the population that makes use of their services. Disgusting. Indentured servitude is a thing of the past, right?

[indianasmith]

Hypocrisy is a human condition everywhere.  No one plays as good a game as they talk.  But frankly, I find the left to be more hateful, more hypocritical, and far more destructive to our country than the right.

[Andrew]

Conservatives are by far the worst hypocrites in america. Yeah, yeah there's some hypocrisy on the left, but it's dwarfed by the hypocrisy billowing from the right.

This is a comment that does not help anything or contribute to any sort of meaningful debate.  Let's not go that route.

[Nukie 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e1SQmt9WtQ&feature=related

[Jim H]

I find the left to be more hateful, more hypocritical, and far more destructive to our country than the right.

And the left says the same of the right.  Just so long as you're aware your own outlook greatly changes your view of the other side.  That's inevitable.

You know, the TP rallies I saw were mostly older Americans - retirees, veterans, etc.  Decent people who are worried about the future.

From what I gather, it's two groups - somewhat younger TPers, who have then motivated and gotten the older retired types out to rally and support some ideas.  And the two groups do not have the exact same motivations or desires. 

[indianasmith]

I recognize that all political movements will attract their share of wingnuts, and that neither side is right or wrong about everything.

The Tea Party does indeed consist of a very wide spectrum of people with lots of divergent views - indeed, that is why it does not have a single national leader or organization.  I have no doubt there are a few members who did join out of racism.  But the idea that the entire movement is composed of racists, bigots, homophobes, and whatever other name that Moveon.org chooses to label them with this week is ludicrous.  Mostly it's folks concerned about taxes that are too high, spending that is out of control, and politicians that seem indifferent to their concerns.  Most of them I have met are very good people, and I hate seeing them bashed with the venom that some on this board have displayed.

[Mofo Rising]

I find the left to be more hateful, more hypocritical, and far more destructive to our country than the right.

And the left says the same of the right.  Just so long as you're aware your own outlook greatly changes your view of the other side.  That's inevitable.

I truly dislike the fake dichotomy of liberal/conservative politics that political discourse in this country has resorted to. The idea that you have to buy one party or the other's political rhetoric, to the death, is absolutely silly and harmful.

I can't claim membership of either party.

I am pro-abortion (with the proviso that the right to privacy was a cop-out, but I'm still pro-abortion!). I am pro-death penalty, very much so. I'm also pro-guns, even the big crazy guns, but I think a license, much like a license to drive a car, is not out of the question.

I'm all for the laissez-faire approach to government, but it continually befuddles me how the Republican party, which should be the working man's party, has become so rabidly anti-unionist. Unions, for all there corrupion, have always been on the side of the working man. Now it's a dirty word? I truly do not understand.

Back to the Tea Party. There are a lot of people who are only there for the racism and hatred. indianasmith, I have proclaimed my admiration for you, but I also live in this world.

That being said, I am literally subject to racism every day. I'm not even Mexican, I'm just dark complexioned. This isn't a goof for me, this is my day to day life.

[indianasmith]

Maybe. But I haven't run into many of them . . . two that I can think of.
My problem with unions is that they have priced American labor out of the market, and public service unions have become nothing but a symbiotic cash cow for the Democratic Party.
I can't be pro-abortion.  I am fine with contraception and family planning, but once that tiny heart starts beating, it's time to take responsibility, not duck it!
But thanks for a thoughtful and meaningful response.

[Mofo Rising]

Maybe. But I haven't run into many of them . . . two that I can think of.
My problem with unions is that they have priced American labor out of the market, and public service unions have become nothing but a symbiotic cash cow for the Democratic Party.
I can't be pro-abortion.  I am fine with contraception and family planning, but once that tiny heart starts beating, it's time to take responsibility, not duck it!
But thanks for a thoughtful and meaningful response.

You get no argument from me that some unions are corrupt, but dismantling unions completely and disallowing workers to speak as a group is very much not the answer. Coincidentally, unions are one of the main reasons so many people are trying to sneak into the United States. You know, we could drop wages down to the sub-poverty levels the rest of the world works on. No money, no immigrants. Problem solved!

Facetiousness aside, I apologize for bringing up abortion. I was using it as an example of how my personal beliefs flip from both "liberal" to "conservative." Bad example, it's a hot button topic that rarely ends in pleasant arguments.

Anyway, thanks for the response, indianasmith!

[indianasmith]

No problem, friend. Many of my close friends are pro-choice and one family member is.  I can recognize and even sympathise with their reasoning; I just cannot share it. But I appreciate the response and the tone.

I agree that unions have accomplished some great things in this nation's history, but I think that their time has largely come and gone.  Teacher's unions in particular seem bound and determined to fight every single reform that might actually improve education. (And I am a schoolteacher! Albeit in the private school sector). 

[Mofo Rising]

Not to harp on this subject, but racism is alive and well in the United States today. These days people are very rarely overt, until they find themselves in a receptive audience. Then the true feelings come out. I live in Arizona, and you better believe there are a lot of racists in this state.

An example, the last house I lived in with several roommates was visited by a black door-to-door salesman. He was selling junk, so my roommate who answered the door sent him along. The next thing I hear is a shouting match between my neighbor and the salesman. He was cussing him out because he didn't want to see "his people" in this neighborhood.

The next day my neighbor tested out my roommate. It was my neighbor and the other neighbor across the street asking my roommate if he had a problem with "the n*****s."

I liked those neighbors. They were some of the nicest people I've ever lived next to. They just happened to be stunningly racist. Never would have guessed it.

I'm not laying blame on conservatives or the Tea Party. The democratic party supported Robert Byrd for years, and try as you might, you can't toss off membership in the KKK as "youthful hijinks." The anti-immigrant movement is full of racists. They may not share it, but racism is one of their primary motivators.

The people I hang out with are not rich, and they like alcohol. I have heard so many racist rants from people who assume I'm your average white guy. (I look white if you don't know what an Alaskan Native looks like.)

All I'm saying is that racism is still about, just easier to ignore. That is unless you are on the receiving end of it.