The Toxic Avenger (1984)

[WingedSerpent]

Recently Cinemaa Wasteland- a local horror movie convention had its meeting and in honor of the 25 anniversary of the film, they had a Troma film themed convention.  They showed a few Troma films including this one. I had seen the sequels not not the original. Haven't seen the remake and have no desire too.

This is still a fun movie.  But after seeing Tromeo and Juliet earlier that weekend, it almost seemed restrained by comparison.  Still over the top by most movie standards, maybe just not by Troma standards.

Had fun watching it, but the smell of  Mary Jane, coming off of one of the other attendees was a little distracting.

I'm sure we all know the film or at least its parent film company. So let's discuss.  Anything anyone wants to add?

[M.10rda]

I don't know if "restrained" is the term I would apply to o.g. TOXIC AVENGER. In some ways it is surprisingly sophisticated in its use of broad (and grotesque) humor, even today; in some ways it goes too far to work as entertainment, at least for me (the killing of the female lead's dog and her near-sexual assault); and in many ways it delivers exactly the lowbrow thrills that one associated with 80s Troma.

TROMEO & JULIET often strikes me as more "restrained" in many ways, or perhaps what I really mean is Kaufman and Gunn were relatively disciplined in their commitment to the material's structure and its characters. It feels a lot more like a Real Movie to me than TOXIC AVENGER or the earlier, famous Kaufman films (and some of the later ones!) - and I know many other fans share that perspective. However, when T&J goes big - as in the epochal "Found A Peanut" sequence - it goes as Big or unrestrained as any film I can think of. (I still can laugh for literal minutes when I watch that scene. I ain't proud!)

It's easy to confuse the (countless) movies that Troma has released with the ones Kaufman has made in-house, and that confusion can dilute an appreciation of his directorial efforts. I haven't seen all of his own films (he made actual xxx porn in the 70s!) but I like the original TOXIC AVENGER and I like the original CLASS OF NUKE 'EM HIGH even more. Some of the sequels that followed (and the dire SGT. KABUKIMAN) are tough to defend. T&J represented a renaissance for Kaufman and got him some critical consideration for his later films. I think TERROR FIRMER is very interesting if challenging (I know a lot of folks love it). CITIZEN TOXIE is the best Kaufman TOXIC AVENGER entry. And POULTRYGEIST (which was shot in Buffalo) is... a kind of masterpiece!  I still gotta' catch up with his last three features.

Great topic! One final piece of trivia: When I was briefly in L.A. in '98, I would call the west coast Troma office every other week and beg them to let me come work for them. The guy who'd answer the phone (who wasn't Gunn or Herz or Trent Haaga or anyone famous) would sheepishly insist it was just him in a small room with a stack of videotapes and that everything really happened in NYC. This was probably true but nevertheless I'd beg him to let me come help him watch all those VHS tapes. 

[WingedSerpent]

For starters, when I called it restrained, I meant it felt restrained in regards to Troma films or at least the public perception of them.

Its interesting to see two people look at The Toxic Avenger and Tromeo and Juliet and come away with nearly opposite opinions.

Toxic Avenger always seemed more mainstream to me, because it was the one Troma film that had the most main stream affect. It had several sequels, It inspired a Saturday morning cartoon show, which inspired an NES game which itself is getting a remake sometime in the next year or so. And its the only one that has gotten a big screen remake. (Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a bit irrelevant-it just shows the film has some name recognition)

Plus, after so many years of modern super hero movies, ones with origin stories, Toxic Avenger was just starting the structure of many films we'd see later.

Tromeo and Juliet with its more -shall we say satiric take on the bard's work, feels like something more aimed at the art house crowd.

Again, all this is just my opinion.

[M.10rda]

Oh, mine (opinions) too...

All rhetoric exists on a spectrum that wraps around into a circle or ring, so "restrained" could look like an "arthouse" film (ex. Merchant Ivory) on one extreme end of that spectrum while on the other extreme "arthouse" might be synonymous with wild non-conformist invention... and both extremes meet around the back.

I agree T&J is more self-consciously "arthouse" while TOXIC AVENGER is more... "mainstream". Certainly TOXIC AVENGER has successfully garnered a much wider fanbase and cultural awareness while T&J seems to be favored per critical consensus. Let's not kid ourselves, though - all Troma films are niche or "cult" compared to the FAST/FURIOUS franchise or something, and likewise the old fogies that would turn out in droves to my old arthouse cinema for Merchant/Ivory junk 25 years ago would mostly reject Troma product as trash. Eh, their loss!

[HappyGilmore]

Troma films just seem like a special kinda film that most people just get offended by pretty easily. Not me, but I grew up watching them. Granted some were the edited versions that would air on USA Up All NIght but I'd end up getting the full/Hard R/NC17 type versions on dvd and vhs later on.

My buddy is a big James Gunn fan and I tried showing him Tromeo and Juliet and Terror Firmer and he just couldn't get through them. He also likes the Toxic Crusaders cartoon but not the films. I dunno. Tried working on productions that filmed near here years ago, but it ultimately didn't work out, but a co-worker of mine did on a few and she invited me to some parties everyone threw and I did get to meet some of the casts and had a good time when I'd go. This was around the days of Poultrygeist and the later Nuke Em High films.