Public Domain Movie... Posters?

[PSlugworth]

I'm sure we've all, at one point or another, picked up more than our share of movies that are in the public domain -- and if you haven't, you must be on the wrong forums!

But anyway, it's not the movies I'm wondering about, it's the posters.

One would think that if a movie -- say House on Haunted Hill, for example -- was in the public domain, the poster probably would be too.  But something keeps telling me that the studio or the original artist or what-have-you still DOES hold the rights to the poster.

I don't know, I don't claim to know -- but I'd really, really LOVE to know  if there's such a thing as a public domain movie poster.

After all, as far as I know the terms and conditions regarding copyright will differ from media to media -- text is still under copyright for so many years, music is for this many, movies this many, and so on... but for the life of me I can't find any information on posters, lobby cards, and promotional materials like that.

Ignoring the idea of fair use for a moment, let's say I was releasing House on Haunted Hill on DVD and I wanted to use the poster for the video cover.  Since I'm not using the poster in an editorial or a review, but for commercial purposes, it doesn't technically fall under fair use -- assuming, of course, that somebody somewhere does hold the rights.

And for that matter, if the posters ARE still the legal property of a studio or individual, how come every mail-order/internet cult movie video retailer seems to be selling their own custom-made movie posters -- I know for a fact that they most likely would never be able to afford the royalties of something like that, yet I also know how actively studios seek out people who infringe on their copyrights, so you can see why I'm so confused!

Anyway, does anyone here have any insight?

[Menard]

I would imagine, but do not know with any certainty, that movie posters would probably fall into the category of artwork and illustration. It is interesting the shorter lifespan of copyright for movies and TV shows. In the case of TV shows, and I guess some movies too, we have seen cheap public domain copies, but many without the original opening music or themesong because those are still under copyright, although the music within the show itself is still intact. I wonder if shows like The Monkees and The Partridge Family, if the episode fell into public domain, could it still be used if the music were still copyrighted? I do know that some examples exist of a public domain episode that still has copyrighted segments. An episode of the Abbott & Costello show is in public domain, but the Lon Chaney Jr. appearance in that episode cannot be used without paying a royalty. Imagine any movie or TV episode that paid the royalty to use 'Happy Birthday to You' in it would probably still be held to that overly greedy royalty if ever distributed intact.

[PSlugworth]

Apparently:

"LOBBY CARDS  (film posters) are generally lumped into the same category as publicity photos and do not require clearance unless they have a copyright notice on them."

http://www.suzyvaughan.com/producers_guidelines.htm

[Sugar_Nads]

Careful Mr. Slugworth, you may be entering shark infested waters. Never assume that "no one" owns the copyrights to any of the material you intend to use.

I don't mean to rain on your parade and I am certainly not an advocate for anti-piracy but you could be taking a very big risk.

[AttorneyAl]

I am a patent attorney, but focus on all aspects of intellectual property law, including copyrights.

I will lay down the law (no pun intended) regarding your question.
Menard gave a good synopsis of the state of copyrights of old movies lapsing into the public domain.  I was at Target the other day and they had episodes of the early manifestations of Tom and Jerry (surprisingly, they weren't a cat and mouse originally!) on DVD. Obviously, the copyright for that has lapsed. However, like Menard said, the copyright for the music might not have lapsed, and therefore, it would have to be omitted or dubbed over with something else.  Regardless of the subject matter, all copyright terms are identical.  The current law is "life of the author plus 70 years" for works by individuals.  We have to thank Sonny Bono (for whom the Copyright extension act was named) for extending copyrights almost into perpetuity (Originally the 1976 Copyright Act was for 50 years) Actually, that bonehead was whoring himself out to Disney's lobby group since Disney was on the verge of losing its copyright to Mickey Mouse (the early versions).  This meant those mothereffers would lose millions in revenue from Mickey Mouse merchandise. But I digress. Anyway, to answer your question, works of art (e.g., movie posters) authored for a corporation (e.g., movie studio) are afforded protection for 95 years from the year of the work’s first publication or 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever is first.  The twist to this however, is that one actually had to register their work prior to 1964 and then renew it every so often (I don't remember the renewal length) -- now, renewal is automatic.  Thus, if you didn't renew your work which was registered prior 1964, it would lapse into the public domain.  So to answer your question, you have to find out if the old movie posters' copyright registration was still in effect prior to 1964.  Contact the Library of Congress for more info. Ok, that's 15 minutes of my time. You owe me $42 according to my firm's hourly billing rates... haha

good luck!

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