OT: Another Computer Related Question

[odinn7]

Well, I'm finally going to purchase a graphics card that most of you will recall I asked about months ago. I've settled on a PNY GeForce FX5500 PCI card from Newegg.com. I did quite a bit of research into this the past few months and this looks like my best option considering I'm stuck with PCI slots. Anyway, I thank everyone that tried to help me with this issue earlier.

Now, onto a new question that I have been pondering:

My Dell recently got a new fan under warranty as the old one sounded like a vacuum cleaner. I had searched Dells forums and discovered that the Dimension 3000 and 4600 were shipped with cheaper fans that were excessively noisy and if you complained, you could get a new one. I did and I will say, the customer support was excellent. I e-mailed them with my concerns and less than 24 hours later, I had a new fan in my hands that they shipped to me by air (wonder what all that cost them?) all for free. It took all of 3 minutes to install the new one as it was simply a case of removing the old one and snapping the new one into place.
Anyway, enough of that. While I was searching the forums, it seemed to be a concern for many that the Dimensions like to heat up quite a bit and maybe the case fan doesn't do it's job well enough in warm weather. This fan mounts on the inside back of the case and has a shroud over the processor and draws air through somewhere in the case (presumably the front), over the processor, and out the back (the fan is exhaust rather than intake). This got me to wondering if maybe there wasn't enough airflow through the case since I can't find any real openings that would allow air in. I thought that maybe if I cut a hole in the removable side cover and put a case fan cover over the opening (the kind with the sponge filter on it) that I may be able to increase airflow. I was all set to order this fan cover along with my graphics card when I happened upon another idea.
I thought I may be able to buy an intake fan and mount it on the removable side cover and this would surely increase airflow and hopefully, cooling too. Now I am stuck...I have no idea what to look for in a fan and if I did get one, where does the power come from? Is there some kind of connector on the board to attach extra fans and if so, how do I know how much this fan can draw without causing the board to fry?
Basically, I would like some input on both the idea of the fan cover only and an extra fan. I am stuck with this system for a while so I would like to get as much distance out of it as I can so please, refrain from telling me to move up to something better you wise asses.

[trekgeezer]

You can get a fan that runs off the regular power supply connectors (like the one that goes to the hard drive). They come in different sizes (typical is the 80mm size). You can get them at Radio Shack, but you might get a better deal at a computer shop.

Since this is a Dell, the case and probably the motherboard were custom designed. Generic cases typically come with a place for an intake fan in the front. Usually on Dells and Gateways there are just a few vents on the front for air intake.



Manufacturers are pretty good at designing things to run at the upper edge of the tolerances.

[odinn7]

So what are you saying Trek? Are you saying you don't think I really need an extra fan or that even putting the extra vent in the case isn't needed? I did see this (the heat issue) on the Dell forums so now I worry about it but I may be worrying for nothing.

[trekgeezer]

I'm saying if you want to stick another fan in there, go for it. It can't hurt, and the cooler you can keep it the better.

[AndyC]

What are your temperatures like now? Are you definitely running hot, or just concerned about the possibility?

[odinn7]

AndyC-
Well, from what I understand, Dell doesn't have any way of measuring temps inside the 3000 and 4600 models (don't know how this is done on normal systems but I saw much reference to the inability of these 2 models to do this) but I did see that people were talking about them overheating. I can only go by what I read as I know how to stick cards and memory in a computer but beyond that I am not very tech.
What it all comes down to is that while researching the fan noise problem, I saw this heat issue brought up and now I am concerned about the possibility of overheating and would like to avoid it in case it is a real situation. It may be nothing but know-it-alls talking as I didn't see it referred to by anyone on the board that is a Dell tech.

[ulthar]

When you boot up your computer and go into BIOS settings (okay, I don't have a Dell, so I am assuming you can do this), is there a place there to monitor temperature?  Sometimes it is under a menu called "PC Health" or some such.

That could give you an idle temp, but will not give you a load temp.  If your CPU is lightly loaded (ie, idle more than about 75% of the time, or less than 25% load in Task Manager), the BIOS temp monitor will give a good guess.

Can you determine what chipset your main board has?  Perhaps the hardware is there to monitor temp, but you have to d/l a third party software utility to access the data.  I thought most modern boards had that hardware present, as it is actually very important (but cheaper boards may leave it off).

Finally, you can get a rough LOWER estimate to the core temp if you simply carefully attach a temp probe (radio shack, maybe walmart or simple make your own thermocouple and use a volt meter) to the CPU.  It would not be very accurate, and since it is a lower limit, it would not really tell you if you are too HOT.

As trek said, more air = cooler, and cooler is always better (longer life for the CPU), so if you have the slightest doubt, add the fan.  It sure won't hurt.

If you want to go low tech, try this (if your computer sits where it won't get damaged).  Take off the case cover.  Place an ordinary fan (small or large as to your preference) so that it blows on the board.  For what it's worth, my main office computer has not had a cover on it for five years (except when being moved from one office to another).  When I've had CPU fan problems, I've used a box fan to blow on the side until my new CPU fan arrived.

[Mr_Vindictive]

Odinn,

I'd recommend using a program such as MotherBoardMonitor to check the temp in the case.  It uses the same sensor as the bios and gives a constant read out of the temp inside the case.  Do a search for the program, and you should be able to find it.  It is a free prog.

As for the heat....those processor coolers on the dell are strange.  I've worked on some before, and I was surprised when I first saw it.  Sort of a cowling that runs from the processor to the back of the case.  Very weird design compared to a standard heatsink.

I would say to test the temp first and see how hot the case gets.  If it is too hot for your liking, then get an 80mm fan from newegg when you order your vid card.  There should be an extra slot on the case where you can hook up the fan.  It should use a standard power adapter as would a hard drive or cd drive.

Or as Ulthar said, the no-case/big fan idea does work perfectly.

[odinn7]

Ok, I am currently in contact with Dell to find out what kind of board is in this computer. They give documentation for everything else except the board. Once I know this, I can then try to install the Motherboard Monitor. If this doesn't work, I will then try the BIOS. Failing that, ulthar hit on the idea of using a thermocouple to get a rough reading. I happen to have a thermocouple that I slightly modified to give me air temp readings for my hobby. I could easily set it up to read the computer.
Well, let's see what Dell says.

[Ash]

I own that exact same graphics card Odinn.
Uh oh...we have something in common!
LOL!

[AndyC]

Been adding fans to my own computer, because I want to do some overclocking. Brought my temperatures down considerably by adding a single 80mm fan. Previously, I had been counting on the power supply fan only.

A couple of things I plan to do, when I have time to cut holes in the case, include installing a blowhole in the top. That is a fan exhausting hot air from the top of the case, between the power supply and the drives. It's a good spot for that, since hot air will naturally collect there, and the upper front of the case doesn't really get much airflow, and with the drives there, it should. The other mod I plan to do is install a ducted fan on the side panel, to blow fresh air straight into the CPU cooler. Sounds like the cooler on a Dell won't work with that.

The main thing to remember when adding fans is to keep all the air flowing in the same general direction. Coming in bottom front and exhausting top rear, in most cases.

[odinn7]

ASHTHECAT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I own that exact same graphics card Odinn.
> Uh oh...we have something in common!
> LOL!

How does the card do for you? Are you satisfied with it? I am limited because my system only has PCI slots but this looks like the best card available and it's a decent price.

[Ash]

It actually works great.
It's one of those middle of the line video cards.
It's not a super high end or lower end card....but right in the middle.

I'vve had no problems at all and I got a good deal on the price when I bought it last year.