The biggest mistake in a very good cartoon

[Ash]

Just Plain Horse Wrote:
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Scrappy also suffered from what I call "short
> man's syndrome", which is basically the need to
> compensate in attitude and agression what he lacks
> in stature...

Actually, I think you were referring to the Napoleon Complex

[Just Plain Horse]

Who's the bigger coward- Scooby or Jabber Jaw?

[ulthar]

You know, this discussion just highlights how LAME modern Saturday mornings are.  My daughter is four and just does not have the Saturday morning mindnumbing I had growing up.

Jabber Jaw?  I am ALMOST ashamed to admit I actually remember that one.  Who remembers the one with Ruth Buzzi and Jim Nabors as robots: "The Lost Saucer."  Scooby was Skakespeare compared to *that* drek (but I still watched it....so what does THAT mean).

[peter johnson]

Yes, lame is Lame is Lam-eh!!
Modern cartoons in the "middle period", which I'm arbitrarily referring to as the mid-70's to 90's, cannot compete with the aritistry or humour of the the Warner Brothers cartoons from the '40's/'50's/'60's not because of sheer economics alone, -- re. the artists could afford to finance the drawing of multiple single frames to create fluidity, etc.,--  but that the overweening culture of the time was more educated than we are now, and everyone knew basic shared curltural constructs of Art, History, Science, etc. -- Therefore, certain jokes, japes, puns, etc., would and could be universally shared from a shared knowledge base, despite whatever the educational background or even the intelligence of the viewer was.
There is no such thing today --
You make a reference to WW2, and if your conversant companion is young, he or she may think it took place in the 1950's or later, or even the '30's.  They can't name a single social issue of the day, nor are they aware of the science/technology of the time.
Bugs Bunny, aside from the racism, violence and stupid slapstick and puns, was funny because it tapped a shared social ouvre.  South Park is the closest thing I can think of today, and even Trey Parker eagerly agrees that the animation is 5th-rate on that.
I'm going off to chew buffalo jerky and whine in my mud hut . . .
peter urgh/denny caveman

[Just Plain Horse]

ulthar Wrote:
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> You know, this discussion just highlights how LAME
> modern Saturday mornings are.  My daughter is four
> and just does not have the Saturday morning
> mindnumbing I had growing up.
>
> Jabber Jaw?  I am ALMOST ashamed to admit I
> actually remember that one.  Who remembers the one
> with Ruth Buzzi and Jim Nabors as robots: "The
> Lost Saucer."  Scooby was Skakespeare compared to
> *that* drek (but I still watched it....so what
> does THAT mean).

Alas, it means if they put it on television, someone will watch it. I would say today's cartoons- mostly being horrendously dubbed and edited anime from Japan- have switched "Weird" in place of "Stupid", but for the most part are no more coherent than their predecessors. That's not to say many Japanese anime shows aren't of superior quality, but rather that the American distributers feel rather intimidated by the provocative storylines of these imports, so they purposely dumb them down until they are virtually indistinguishable from the crap we're used to. The last good cartoons to come out of this country? Anything pre 1960 with Bugs Bunny in it. Those cartoons still have funny moments in them today- granted, if you have no idea who was who in Hollywood in the 1930's & 40's, the impressions will probably go over your head...

[BoyScoutKevin]

Actually, I liked "Scooby Doo." At least, the early cartoons. I liked to try to guess who the villian was, before he or she was unmasked. They would have the villain and a bunch of red herrings. My detective skills were such, I must say, I seldom picked the right villain or villainess out of the red herrings.

[Flangepart]

Just Plain Horse Wrote:
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> I have to be honest here, I HATED Scooby Doo.
> Second only to the Flintstones of All- time Most
> Hated cartoons on my list. Scrappy-Doo didn't help
> it much...
 Could live with Fred and Wilma...hate that dog! I wanted to see them get nuked along with Scrappy Doo...flesh seared of by the heat flash, radation burning into their...well, you can see how i feel...

[Just Plain Horse]

BoyScoutKevin Wrote:
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> Actually, I liked "Scooby Doo." At least, the
> early cartoons.

That's fine, I'm not going to try to make an opinion a fact by saying "Scooby sucks and you suck 'cause you disagree with me, blah,blah, blah..." I just get so annoyed that the general attitude is that weak, if not completely unfunny bland cartoons like scooby doobie, the Honeymooner-stones & the "Wacky" races shows were the s**t in their time. *shrugs* In the end, it's just a matter of opinions.

[ulthar]

Just Plain Horse Wrote:

> I just get so annoyed that the general
> attitude is that weak, if not completely unfunny
> bland cartoons like scooby doobie, the
> Honeymooner-stones & the "Wacky" races shows were
> the s**t in their time.

What at the time was done better?  Not a flame - a genuine question; I'd like to hear your opinion of a 'good' 60's era animation.

I don't assert The Flintstones, Jeffersons, Scooby Doo, etc, were GOOD shows by some grand measure.  I only say that they were good for what they were intended to be: mindless animated entertainment that was relatively inexpensive to produce.  This seems like the "B" formula applied to G rated animated series television.

[Just Plain Horse]

ulthar Wrote:
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> What at the time was done better?  Not a flame - a
> genuine question; I'd like to hear your opinion of
> a 'good' 60's era animation.
>
> I don't assert The Flintstones, Jeffersons, Scooby
> Doo, etc, were GOOD shows by some grand measure.
> I only say that they were good for what they were
> intended to be: mindless animated entertainment
> that was relatively inexpensive to produce.  This
> seems like the "B" formula applied to G rated
> animated series television.

Hmmm.... I honestly think The Flintstones were done a little bit better- sure the plot was lame and the jokes fell flat, but there was detail in the backgrounds and none of the animation look as "recycled". Scooby Doo was as "cut and paste" as ever I've seen in animation.

[Yaddo 42]

Working within the limits of what they did at HB, I'd say the original run of Jonny Quest is probably the best thing they or anyone from America did during the time mentioned, 60s-70s. Not as recycled as much of the Filmation action stuff that I loved when I was little (Tarzan, Lone Ranger). More detailed, better writing, more drama (although stuff was edited out from later runs of the original series IIRC). Formula genre stuff (boys action/pulp plots combining the thrills and chills of the old Saturday morning serials with Cold War espionage) to be sure, but head and shoulders above what else was out there then or for some time after (makes crap like Sealab 2020 and Birdman look even worse than they already were), plus it holds up as entertainment even now.

[Just Plain Horse]

Yaddo 42 Wrote:
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> Working within the limits of what they did at HB,
> I'd say the original run of Jonny Quest is
> probably the best thing they or anyone from
> America did during the time mentioned, 60s-70s.
> Not as recycled as much of the Filmation action
> stuff that I loved when I was little (Tarzan, Lone
> Ranger). More detailed, better writing, more drama
> (although stuff was edited out from later runs of
> the original series IIRC). Formula genre stuff
> (boys action/pulp plots combining the thrills and
> chills of the old Saturday morning serials with
> Cold War espionage) to be sure, but head and
> shoulders above what else was out there then or
> for some time after (makes crap like Sealab 2020
> and Birdman look even worse than they already
> were), plus it holds up as entertainment even now.

The original Jonny Quest is one of the few shows I can think of that was as badass as it was supposed to be. I loved it. They got literally everything just right.

[Yaddo 42]

I know the first time I saw the invisible monster episode and the one-eyed robotic spider episode as a kid I was creeped out for days after. Checking for unaccounted for footprints and asking my dad if we had any spare paint. Listening for that distinctive sound the spider made.

Watching Race Bannon whip up on that whole mess of guys in frog suits in the ship graveyard. Having the stones to paint himself up as a deity or was it a demon, go into the savages' village on his own, and effect a rescue (it was the first time I saw that plot line used). The creepy little gargoyle dude. Damn, that was some good TV.

[ulthar]

I'll answer my own question with a couple of others I thought of since posting.  First of all, I figgered when posting it that someone would be quick to mention Johnny Quest, and I cannot disagree at all.  JQ is certainly a different 'genre' than Scooby Doo.

The two I'd like to add are Speed Racer and Prince Planet.  Neither are American, though.

I was absolutely addicted to both of these as a young lad.  My matchbox cars became the Mach 5 and my Mom got me a P on a string to wear around my neck so I could run around the house yelling "P for POWER."

The IMDB entry for Prince Planet is sparse.  Like a user who commented on that page, I usually get met with blank stares whenever I mention this one.

[Professor zen]

I always Liked the episodes when the Harlem Globetrotters guest stared because Cmon guys your 12 conditioned Athletes jump on the ghost of barnaby jones (or whatever) and beat the crap out of him...reminds me of an episode of The Venture Brothers when they showed what would happen if someone dressed up like a ghost pirate and tried to scare pepole off a boat...(hes dead now8-) )