Gone: crazy Be Back In: never

[Amontillado]

So, with my new summer schedule it makes it difficult to find time to dedicate to this wonderful forum. This fact bums me out, because I haven't found a forum that has been any fun since the 'zine I used to write for folded (and turned into a bunch of stuck up NYC explorer kids who think their bowel movements smell like freshly baked baguettes). I've tried to join a forum here and there, but I never go back to it if I don't get the chance to for a while because I find that I didn't really like anyone. A lot of these things are filled with a bunch of jackasses who just want to argue, and who talk (or in this case) write down to you if you don't agree with them. I find that you ghouls and boils understand that winning an arguement online is like coming in first in the special olympics... A bit of a tasteless joke, yes. But as Mozart once said, I am a vulgar man.

Well, what I really wanted to talk about is the unsettling amount of youth related crime / stories that have been surfacing in the news lately.

6/26/07 - Dorchester, MA - A seven-year-old boy shoots his eight-year-old cousin fatally while playing with an unregistered hand gun.

6/26/07 - Canandaigua, NY - An SUV carrying five recent high school graduates made a dangerous passing move resulting in the driver losing control of the vehicle and crashing into a tractor trailer. All five girls died on impact, and all three of the girls in the back seat were not wearing seat belts. Just today, authorities concluded that drugs and/or alcohol had nothing to do with the crash, however a cell phone did. Ontario County Sheriff Philip Povero annoucned finding that indicate that the driver was distracted by sending a text message from her cell phone.

7/3/07 - Orange Beach, AL - Police are shocked to discover that the driver who had led them on a high-speed chase was, in fact, an 11-year-old girl who was driving under the influence. The chase had ended when the girl lost control of the vehicle, hit an embankment, and flipped the car. The young girl was apparently on her way to pick up her older sister from a concert.

7/6/07 - Garfield County, OK - A 12-year-old girl and her 10-year-old sister are arrested for abducting one-year-old Brandon Wells from his home. Mother, Sheila, found a note reading, "If you want to see your son again then you won't call police and report him missing and you will leave $200,000 on the sofa tonight and we will return your son back safe." The note was signed "The Kidnappers." The plan began to unravel when the girls' mother saw them with Brandon, police said. They apparently told their mother they had found the boy on a street corner.

7/11/07 - Albany, NY - A 19-year-old and her 21-year-old passenger entered an exit ramp of I-787. Three tractor trailers, one in each lane, were traveling southbound as the SUV carrying the two girls was heading north. The resulting crash sent the left lane trailer in the air which clipped the middle lane trailer sending both to their side and off of the road. The resulting crash killed the two girls. Both of the drivers of the wrecked trailers were unharmed. Toxicology tests showed that the (underage) driver had a BAC of .24 and her passenger clocked in at .25, three times the legal limit. They had been driving north on the southbound side for nearly 3 miles.

7/16/07 - Los Angeles, CA -  Four teenagers were arrested for cruising the streets of LA and attacking homeless people while filming the events on their cell phones. The boys allegedly shot at least six homeless people with plastic pellets from a pistol, threw smoke bombs at them and threw a bike into a homeless person's tent. One of the smoke bombs ignited a homeless man's blanket. The boys are also accused of filming the attacks with cell phone cameras which, police believe, they intended to post on the internet.

I don't know what's going on with the kids of today. Normally, I am the one pointing the finger at parents. However, with this recent rash of events, when are we going to have to take a look at the culture that these kids are growing up in. I don't have the time right now to get into it, but I hope that some of you will comment on this post. I would like there to be a small discussion of what going on in the world and how this filters down to the youth.

[Menard]

I don't know what's going on with the kids of today. Normally, I am the one pointing the finger at parents. However, with this recent rash of events, when are we going to have to take a look at the culture that these kids are growing up in. I don't have the time right now to get into it, but I hope that some of you will comment on this post. I would like there to be a small discussion of what going on in the world and how this filters down to the youth.

What's going on with the kids of today is the same thing that was going on with the kids of my generation, my parents generation, ad infinitum.

I wish I had the quote, but there is an excerpt I read of a writer going off on the 'kids of today', their lack of respect, the trouble they get into, etc. It reads just like anybody else complaining about modern day kids, except that it was written in Roman times.

We all do stupid things, and have thought of stupid things to do. Bad things happen when we actually do those stupid things.

In today's media sensation environment where we have to know what is going on down the block, whether it is any of our business or not, everything is fair game for so-called journalists who took their ethics from nazis, politicians, and Rush Limbaugh.

When I was a kid: kids got killed, kids killed others, kids robbed, kids raped, and kids found all kinds of other ways to get into trouble.

Today: kids get killed, kids kill others, kids rob, kids rape, and kids find all kinds of other ways to get into trouble.

Hmmm...don't see a difference.

Perhaps the difference is the sensationalist extraction and concentration of events to prove one's point.

[Ash]

Whenever I hear these kinds of stories, it makes me think of this song by Offspring.
If you haven't seen it, this is one of the coolest videos ever.   

The Kids Aren't Alright
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iby-dzo8HMk

[CheezeFlixz]

I wish I had the quote, but there is an excerpt I read of a writer going off on the 'kids of today', their lack of respect, the trouble they get into, etc. It reads just like anybody else complaining about modern day kids, except that it was written in Roman times.

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates
Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC)


"Parents who are afraid to put their foot down usually have children who step on their toes"

Chinese Proverbs


"Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society."

Benjamin Franklin

[Raffine]

Funny: when I hear these kinds of stories, it makes me think of Paul Lynde singing "Kids! I don't know what's the matter with kids today!" from BYE BYE BIRDIE.




Must be a generation gap thing! 

[Scott]

Some parents are so obsessed with other kids being "bad" that they don't even realise how messed up they themselves are. Then you have people who don't have kids telling others what to do at work and some others telling you how to raise your own kid instead of minding their own business. Then you have people in management who never attempted a family. It's all amazing.

I had one genius telling me one year how people should have a license in order to be allowed to have kids and only to find out years later how messed up their kid is. Everyone should shut their mouths and do the best they can and the news should stay completely out of it. What does it all really matter? Some people excel in life because of a combination of anything from genes to environment. Some people thrive better in a poor environment and some others do better in a rich environment. It's all chance in the end. It's all an experiment. One never really knows how a child will turn out. I see people driving around town from place to place and none of it makes any sense, so who cares?

Well.......ok we do care and we are here to give children opportunity, expose them to a world of ideas that help them form a life vision. All the complaining in the world never helped anyone and never will.

Oh by the way Amontillado welcome to the forum. This is a great place so stick around. We enjoy good off topic subjects to get our mental gears turning again after a heavy dose of B-movies. 

Don't mind me. I'm just babbling. What do I know?

Karma for you Amontillado. 

[indianasmith]

Solomon said:

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Good advice.  I have failed in many things, but I have tried very hard to be a good dad to my twin girls.  At 13 they are friendly, respectful, with a deep love of life and fun, and a strong faith in God.  Of course, I know the teen years are just beginning and there will be bad days, but my wife and I have done our best to give them a strong foundation to build on.

And I'm also a third degree black belt, which may come in handy when the boys start coming around! 

[Scott]

Solomon said:

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Though many preachers kids are on the streets. When in the Taxi business in Atlantic City many of the "hookers" were daughters of preachers from across the country.

Your correct that when they (people) are looking for answers they (people) will return to what they know which comes from their upbringing. Each generation seems to lose and gain something.

[RCMerchant]

Billy the Kid was a teen.
Jeffry Dahmer starting killing as a teen.


  People just don't wake up one day and decide they are going to be evil,or go kill someone. They  grow into it.
It's not happening any more or less now,I don't think. The population is bigger,so the more people you have,the more nut jobs you have. And the mass media let's you know about it.

[Scott]

I think it has more to do with media coverage having quick access to events and stories (24 news). It just feels like there is more of it and there probably is more because the news also creates a copy cat evil. There are some things that never cross peoples minds until they hear (learn) about it on the news.  The sick get even sicker.

There is something to be said about evil in people. It's just ingrained in many people. They hate anything good and dismiss the good. They can't celebrate anothers accompishments or interests. They down play it as nothing. Smothering all that is good.   

[Amontillado]

I think it has more to do with media coverage having quick access to events and stories (24 news). It just feels like there is more of it and there probably is more because the news also creates a copy cat evil.   

I'll certainly agree on that one. I guess I am just noticing it more. Forgive my pessimistic mood as of late, but it's one of those things that if I don't expunge it in some way it will consume me. I'm usually not so critical 

It is true that this is obviously not a new problem, however this recent rash has just gotten me thinking about the upcoming generation in general. I honestly feel that consumerism and technology in it's darkest, and most evil, form is really starting to surface with the way people interact with each other and the world. It's like the preamble to a Norman Spinrad novel out there. Celebrity worship is at an all time high. The lofty dreams of being rich and famous are so heavily thrust on the youth of today that it has had a widespread effect. See kids today feel that they are automatically owed something. They have this sense of entitlement that is astounding. I see it everyday. This generation is the first to be exposed during their developmental state to such a demoralizing society. Everyone's plugged into something be it an iPod or a cellphone. There is always something else they have to have just so they don't fall behind. Coupled with the aforementioned sense of entitlement, and you've got a nasty brew. It's like that episode of Aqua Teen Edork when Shake buys all that useless crap (my favorite being the player piano strapped to his back) except this really happens. How about this gem I found today:

7/15/07 - Reno, NV - A couple authorities say were so obsessed with the Internet and video games that they left their babies starving and suffering other health problems have pleaded guilty to child neglect. The children of Michael and Iana Straw, a 22-month-old boy and an 11-month-old girl, were severely malnourished and near death last month when doctors saw them after social workers took them to a hospital, authorities said.

I guess being that prophetic voice of doom sometimes has a certain draw to me. One of my favorite characters of all time (literature and movies) is the prophet Ezekiel (which is a bit ironic seeing as I'm not at all religious). You know the one who saw God fly down on a chariot drawn by four faced, four winged creatures, and then he was given a scroll...to eat! And then, my favorite part of the whole bible, he is put into the valley of the bones and they all come to life! Anyway, Ezekiel only saw terrible, freightening, and destructive things. However, by relating these horrible visions he had and all the terrible things he saw around them he eventually restored Jerusalem by virtue of the "smell the coffee effect." 

I think I might have lost myself a bit there. It's been too long of a day to be so verbose...

In conclusion, I trust that all of you are good and like-minded people, if you've got an apple tree or are thinking about growing an apple tree, please be sure to tend to your apples and make sure they don't fall far from your tree. Love your apples, teach your apples to love, and for the love of all that is sacred READ TO YOUR APPLES! I find that a lot of these worms destroying good apples out there can be directly linked to the lack of reading. Oh, and discourage your apples from swearing. Having a firmer grasp of language / vocabulary (i.e. controlling it) leads to better control of emotions as well. Treat your little apples like big apples (in the right circumstances of course) and they will learn what it is to be a big apple sooner. You'll never guess what kind of classes I did well in at college...

[Menard]

...I trust that all of you are good and like-minded people...

You don't know me very well...do you?

[Allhallowsday]

Perhaps the difference is the sensationalist extraction and concentration of events to prove one's point.

Difference?  Haven't people always done that . . . ?  Hence, no difference in peoples' behaviour, so it would appear a variation of your main point.  Yet, more to my point, didn't you just do it?  I mean with the list of killing, robbing, and raping...? 
Your comment may inadvertently prove Amontillado's point.   I think I agree, in part, with you that I am unconvinced that people have inherently changed, and I've been wary of turning into my father.  Yet, I do believe the pace of life is accelerating, and the incredible ease of disseminating information is unique in human history.  We are living in what's been termed the age of "knowledge economy."   In at least two of Amontillado's news clippings, the use of technologies without precedent in human history is enough of a foundation to base an argument that change is indeed evident.   A little bit of information can be dangerous, perhaps now more than ever. 
A precise number of facts may prove a case... an imprecise number of anecdotes may simply appear proof. 

[Menard]

Perhaps the difference is the sensationalist extraction and concentration of events to prove one's point.

Difference?  Haven't people always done that . . . ?

I would presume people have always done that.

If someone wants to prove a point, all it takes is to concentrate on any evidence which supports their point, and discard that which does not. This is also called lawyering.

The main difference today, as compared to 35 years ago, is that we are much more tuned in to the media. Incidents, lifestyles, etc., which may not have been considered newsworthy to forum with little competition has become prime fodder as the competition is cutthroat.

Each news outlet can not only spin a story any way they wish, but they can recycle the same material into another story, without there appearing to be a connection.

Yes, people can, and will, spin things to their benefit. It's not that the news from 35 years ago would not have considered it, but 35 years ago news came on at 2 times during the day, usually, told of newsworthy events, then went off. It was often treated as a service offered by a local station, and not entertainment.

News today is entertainment pure and simple. Controversy sells, and if they have to spin a story to sell it, it is not even a consideration.

Worsening crime, and especially worsening kids, is something that sells and gets people's interest, whether it's true or not.

[Allhallowsday]

If someone wants to prove a point, all it takes is to concentrate on any evidence which supports their point, and discard that which does not. This is also called lawyering.

Not a lawyer in this case, though my mother often said I shoulda been.  I don't entirely agree with you , but your point is well noted. 

The main difference today, as compared to 35 years ago, is that we are much more tuned in to the media. Incidents, lifestyles, etc., which may not have been considered newsworthy to forum with little competition has become prime fodder as the competition is cutthroat.

NETWORK, which is over 30 years old, shows that cutthroat competitiveness that you write about...

Each news outlet can not only spin a story any way they wish, but they can recycle the same material into another story, without there appearing to be a connection.

True. 

Yes, people can, and will, spin things to their benefit. It's not that the news from 35 years ago would not have considered it, but 35 years ago news came on at 2 times during the day, usually, told of newsworthy events, then went off. It was often treated as a service offered by a local station, and not entertainment.

Not true; read NETWORK.  Even that far back and 25 years earlier they understood the influence of the market. 

News today is entertainment pure and simple. Controversy sells, and if they have to spin a story to sell it, it is not even a consideration.
Worsening crime, and especially worsening kids, is something that sells and gets people's interest, whether it's true or not.

According to you, that's always been true!