Moron marines and idiot army guys in movies.

BTM · October 16, 2007, 10:35:27 PM

Okay, this topic may bother some people, but this is actually a good place to RANT. I'm talking about how films (especially b films) tend to depict people in the military, and all the craziness therein. I've never been in the military myself, but I do have respect for those who serve and there are some things depicted in films that even *I* know are flat out idiotic.

Now, when I say this, I'm not talking about what are, to me, picayune things, like, "Hey, that admiral isn't wearing the right number of a medals" or, "Hey, the Army guys service weapon is not the type they use in that area."

No, I'm talking about BIG things, like guys with (supposed) military training doing incredibly STUPID things. Yes, I know history has it's share of military blunders (that famous battle where they sent several hundred guys armed with only swords to fight in a gun battle, for instance), and I know in every group there are going to be people who are not exactly Mensa material, but STILL.

Okay, here's my picks for some of the dumbest actions by military guys in movie history.

House of the Dead 2

Believe it or not, this sequel is actually WORSE than the original. While the original had some "so bad it's good" moments lines and unintentionally funny dialog, this film just sucked balls. From a military point of view, we've got a small group of guys going into a zombie infested college campus to retrieve something or other (been a bit, don't remember all the details.) In addition to doing such as not bothering to stay together, and other crazy things, at one point a guy goes into a dorm room, and, seeing a camera and a dead women (as in, "injured in the head and not coming back as a zombie" dead) he decides to

Wait for it...

Pose the girls corpse and TAKE A PICTURE WITH HER.

As my friend from work said, "What the hell?"

This reminded me a lot of the my next incident..

Night of the Zombies aka Hell of the Living Dead aka Zombie Creeping Flesh (this film is review on this site btw http://www.badmovies.org/movies/nightzombies/index.html )

Not only do none of these idiots seem to know how to shoot someone in the head (course, that's standard in a lot bad foreign zombie films), at one point one of the army guys, in the midst of searching a house, comes across a large closet. He puts down his gun, opens the closet and begins trying on the WOMEN'S clothing within.

And now, probably the biggest one of all.. moving away from the horror genre.

Full Metal Jacket

I know, a lot of people with argue with this one, but the scene where Sarge is yelling at Pyle and gets shot seems REALLY dumb on his part. Yes, I suppose you could say it was in the Sarge's character to believe he's firmly in control of every situation, but, in my humble, non-military opinion, insulting someone with a LOADED weapon never seems like a good idea.

Well, that's all I can think of off-hand. I could get into the numerous instances in films where the military is portrayed as borderline psychopaths who just want to come in and kill whatever threat is depicted in the film (usually with scientists being the reasonable, trying to tell them hardheaded military guys that just blasting away at the enemies won't work) but I think I've talk long enough.

Any great examples you guys want to give?

The Burgomaster · October 17, 2007, 06:45:54 AM

It's interesting that back in the wholesome, patriotic 1950s movies the military usually worked closely with scientists to defeat the aliens or monster or whatever. Now, most movies portray the military as the guys who won't listen to anyone. This generally results in large-scale mayhem and destruction. Sometimes, even the scientists are stupid and pig-headed in modern movies. Luckily, in the end, someone like Bruce Willis (who is smarter than the m,ilitary AND the scientists) shows up to save the day.

BTM · October 23, 2007, 05:13:36 PM

Oh, come on! Only ONE reply? Thought for sure this would generate a lot of discussion...

Ah, well.

Doc Daneeka · October 23, 2007, 05:23:35 PM

You stated it best in the firts post, BTM, no more is needed

However, if spamming is okay for a reply it should be known that the board's new Interactive B-Movie contains an idiot military commander... well, corporal technically... http://www.badmovies.org/forum/index.php/topic,116331.0.html

Andrew · October 23, 2007, 06:02:15 PM

I see stuff that drives me up the wall all the time. It's remembering where it all comes from that is my problem. Okay, how about "AI Assault" for one. The crack military team goes in to stop the two killer robots that are loose. The robots have ultra armor, so the special forces guys need a laser to cut through it. They take one laser. They also take one radio and go in without any sort of air support on call.

The tactics used by the highly training team are as follows: clump together, stand still, shoot in the offhand, and get killed once the robot walks up to them.

Flangepart · October 24, 2007, 09:59:02 AM

Andrew, you stillneed to do that essay on 'Stupid movie military tricks'. I wanna hear a rant from an expert!
Yeesh!
You ever wonder, if the view of the military Hollywood has is infulanced by the film makeing process? Is the military a standin for all the hamhanded, incompitant decision makeing that takes place in the boardrooms of lala land?
That might explain a LOT!....

Spiff · October 25, 2007, 04:40:52 AM

The LT in Aliens telling the marines not to use their guns with no mention of why always annoyed me (even though Gormon is portrayed as inexperienced and a bit of a tool). If he'd said that they were under th reactor and gunfire might make it go boom, I don't think Vasquez would have disobeyed the order.

The soldiers in Dog Soldiers seemed pretty believable. Knew when to abort the training mission, decamped to (what they though was) a more secure location, tried to establish contact with HQ, the list goes on.....

zombie no.one · October 25, 2007, 06:35:06 AM

Quote from: BTM on October 16, 2007, 10:35:27 PM

Now, when say this, I'm not talking about what are, to me, picayune things, like, "Hey, that admiral isn't wearing the right number of a medals" or, "Hey, the Army guys service weapon is not the type they use in that area."

aka 'pulling a wyrewizard'

D-Man · October 25, 2007, 07:56:16 AM

There is some hope though. I know it's only natural for a lot of film makers to have a somewhat cynical view of the military, but in Transformers, the soldier types turn out to be really good guys, while the secret organization guys, who you'd think would be the voice of reason, turn out to be the a***oles in a lot of ways.

Khaz · October 25, 2007, 09:31:44 AM

OK I'll step up on this one. This just from a couple of movies I caught this week.
28 Weeks Later. Wow.. Where to start on this one? Hmm how about using more than 4 snipers to cover a 50 mile perimeter? Then there is the 2 kids that get out. Military guy" hey we got 2 kids sneaking out on this camera!" Commander" hmm, ok guys go for a quick nap, maybe have a shower and then get out their and find them at their house!" What the hel? I don't even want to get into the snipers.. Plus what is up with the helicopter that flies around the whole movie? He is not obeying orders.. Where is he getting fuel?
Godzilla (1998)"ok so when the 100ft tall lizard shows up for the fish, I want only 10 of you guys shooting with anything over .50cal. Everyone else, hmm 7.62 should do it!" wow. If that was me, as soon as that lizard turned up I would have pumped about 100 LAW rockets into his head. At least. Oh and yet again we have a moronic helicopter pilot ( watching movies has led me to believe that most USAF pilots fly only in 2 dimensions.) When Godzilla is chasing them after the military has finished shooting them with spitballs and BB guns, why don't they fly UP?!? C'mon, they are still well within ground effect, they could have shot pretty much straight up. But noooo, they fly in between all the skyscrapers about 50ft off the ground. Duh.
Well that's a couple right off the top of my head.

Dr. Whom · October 25, 2007, 09:45:28 AM

In looking at military in B movies, and monster movies in particular, you must never forget that they are essentially plot devices and not accurate portrayals of any reality whatsoever.

To take another example, what I call the 30-30 immunity. In a classic 1950s monster movie, quite early on there is usually a moment when the monster is shot at (typically with a 30-30 lever action rifle), of course with no effect. Now, the only reason for this sequence is to demonstrate that BULLETS CAN'T STOP THIS THING. There is even a variant on this in Tremors.

Many film sequences with the military have the same function. They only serve to underline that THE MILITARY ARE POWERLESS, and that it is up to the hero to figure out some smart way of dealing with the thing. In that kind of scenario you don't want your military to be very smart and/or very capable. Otherwise you'd have a very boring finale such as

Monster threathens major city
Air force jet drops smart bomb on monster
Monster explodes
Roll end credits.

Andrew · October 25, 2007, 09:54:57 AM

Quote from: AlexB on October 25, 2007, 09:45:28 AM
Otherwise you'd have a very boring finale such as

Monster threathens major city
Air force jet drops smart bomb on monster
Monster explodes
Roll end credits.

Well, you can always go with the route they did in "Tarantula" where the military can deal with the creature - the problem is contacting them and getting them there. "The Beast from 20,000" fathoms had a great take on this. The military was completely capable of seriously wounding the creature once they brought it to bay. Problem was: doing so would unleash a prehistoric plague.

Dr. Whom · October 25, 2007, 10:01:16 AM

Ah, but then you'd need to do some work on your scenario. Find out what the military can and cannot do, figure out a way round it....

Much easier to have incompetent military.

Andrew · October 25, 2007, 10:11:14 AM

Ah yes. Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence. Rings true all the time. In this case, for both the screenwriters and the military that they write.

Neville · October 25, 2007, 12:27:26 PM

I'd say that the root of the problem is that not much people trust the military this days, as oppossed to the 50s, when WWIII was a fresh memory. The defeats in Korea and Vietnam changed the way people looked at the military.

Then everybody followed Hollywood's new vision on military and the whole thing became a great f*cking cliché. As someone said, just put moronic soldiers and then we don't need to worry about this part of the movie.

As a leftist of sorts, I don't find the whole thing as annoying as others do, but I do recognise it's reached and exceeded all limits. As Frank Miller put it when he rambled about "300", when there's trouble you don' send diplomats to negotiate, you send soldiers to kick some butt. And we shouldn't be afraid to recognise that they often achieve their goals.