McCain plays with fire on offshore drilling

[ulthar]

That and the cost, a wind generator likely wouldn't last long enough to pay for itself before it needed replacing and that is a negative ROI.

I have the papers somewhere, but the money I was going to theoretically save verses investment and yearly maintenance wasn't enough to out last the service life of the generator, in fact it was a negative gain. So why invest $30K to realize a 0% financial gain when you could leave it in a saving account or money market and realize a modest gain.
 

The wind turbines I was using were designed for marine use - very robust.  I'd have to check on the service life numbers, but they were not THAT expensive, either - like $1000-$2000 for the wind gen by itself.  I'd be very suprised if they did NOT last 10 years.

The total systems I spec'd out came to $10,000-$20,000 (except one, and he wanted to power some industrial grade irrigation pumps for his farm!!).  The hard thing was when someone had electric heat, dryer, stove, etc, instead of gas. 

The bulk of the cost was all the other stuff you needed, such as charge controllers, batteries, as well as installation labor and design cost.  Some had some really bizarre design details.  I did one design for a combined wind/hydro system for a guy, and I had to set up all kinds of automatic stuff like opening and closing the valve to the hydro, etc.  After all, I was not in it to lose money.   

I do believe that at least some decentralization of power production would be a Good Thing.  But like everything else, to 'grow your own' takes work, and too many folks like to just turn on the light switch and have the light come on, no fuss, no muss.

[CheezeFlixz]

The wind turbines I was using were designed for marine use - very robust.  I'd have to check on the service life numbers, but they were not THAT expensive, either - like $1000-$2000 for the wind gen by itself.  I'd be very suprised if they did NOT last 10 years.

The total systems I spec'd out came to $10,000-$20,000 (except one, and he wanted to power some industrial grade irrigation pumps for his farm!!).  The hard thing was when someone had electric heat, dryer, stove, etc, instead of gas. 

The bulk of the cost was all the other stuff you needed, such as charge controllers, batteries, as well as installation labor and design cost.  Some had some really bizarre design details.  I did one design for a combined wind/hydro system for a guy, and I had to set up all kinds of automatic stuff like opening and closing the valve to the hydro, etc.  After all, I was not in it to lose money.   

I do believe that at least some decentralization of power production would be a Good Thing.  But like everything else, to 'grow your own' takes work, and too many folks like to just turn on the light switch and have the light come on, no fuss, no muss.

The one I was looking at was 10kW ...
http://www.solarhome.org/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=920

This would supply the house, the shop and produce excess to feed. However, our local small co-op electric company was unsure how to use a reverse meter and if it would cause problems to there system and didn't want it attached without further study, which they wanted me to pay for.   

So I didn't want to get completely get off the grid, since I wanted to feed the grid with excess and get a check from the utility. Which would be the idea thing, enough people pump energy back into the grid that those leeching the grid pay the feeders through the utility.

So I've thought of going with a smaller one to supplement, but I'm still looking at it.

[ulthar]

So I've thought of going with a smaller one to supplement, but I'm still looking at it.

Back to my no one-size-fits-all idea...one idea you might consider is split your load.

Convert to 12 V (or 24 or 48 if you prefer) for lights and small appliances.  Run the appliances of an inverter if you need to.  DC is much better for "local" power distribution.  It lost to AC back when they were figuring how to get juice from the plant to the cities...AC wins on long distance distribution.

So, if you are making your own juice, be it from hydro, wind or solar, think DC, not AC.  Then you can use batteries to store energy to dip into for "peak" use; provided your peaks are not too large or happen too often, you can dramatically downsize your generation needs.  Let the batts absorb the peaks, rather than having a generator large enough to meet the peak demand you only hit once or twice a day for relatively short duration.

Power everything you can light load wise with this setup.  Stay on the grid for air conditioning, electric heat, clothes dryer, etc, all the big demand loads.  At least initially.

Part of the trick is to design a small system first, but one that can expand later.

Finally, living off the grid, at least cheaply, does perhaps take some lifestyle changes.  If you are running on batts at night with only solar charging, you just think more about leaving lights on in rooms when you leave.

Oh by the way...that's be nuts.  Going just solar I mean...and for a LOT of reasons.  Solar is great, but wind/hydro are MUCH better.  I could set you up with a 5 kW hydro system for peanuts compared to what you were talking about paying for your total system.  Use two of them to meet your 10 kW demand if need be, and it'd still be less.  *IF* you live near running water, or a pond with sufficient head pressure.   

[CheezeFlixz]

Well living in the flatlands of far western KY we have ton of water and hydro electric damns (TVA) but little head pressure with a damn, creeks, streams here a slow moving and would require damning and re-engineering to get a sustainable flow.

Wind would work best for me, but even the wind is not steady. A may try something on the shop at least in part of it, it's the biggest energy hog is saws, planners, drills, compressors etc. If it proves profitable to shave the utility bill then it would be worth looking at.

[ulthar]

Well living in the flatlands of far western KY we have ton of water and hydro electric damns (TVA) but little head pressure with a damn, creeks, streams here a slow moving and would require damning and re-engineering to get a sustainable flow.

I had a supplier that made hydro systems for slow, low-head applications.  It was pricey.

Their principal market was water supply for remote third world villages.

I'd have to look it up because I don't recall the name, but if you want it, let me know.  You'd probably need 5 figures to buy one (good price for a village, not so good for a single home).

[CheezeFlixz]

Well living in the flatlands of far western KY we have ton of water and hydro electric damns (TVA) but little head pressure with a damn, creeks, streams here a slow moving and would require damning and re-engineering to get a sustainable flow.

I had a supplier that made hydro systems for slow, low-head applications.  It was pricey.

Their principal market was water supply for remote third world villages.

I'd have to look it up because I don't recall the name, but if you want it, let me know.  You'd probably need 5 figures to buy one (good price for a village, not so good for a single home).

If you're bored look it up, otherwise don't. I have to do a cost benefit analysis of this little endeavor. I've looked at wind, hydro, solar and even switching to geothermal but the water table is really to hight here for a proper application of GT.

My goal was to find away to supply enough power to run everything here and maybe make a few bucks feeding the system.

as you've mentioned I've looked into low voltage interior lighting, led lighting, dual fuel HVAC, but I have so much going on right now I don't have enough mental room at the end of the day to invest in it.

I have no idea why I'm busy the news said there was a recession going on, so you know it got to be true.

I'm going to re roof my house this fall (hopefully if time permits) and I'm looking at various energy saving products to reduce cooling cost in the summer. The roof is over 50 squares so that's a big surface to suck up heat.