Movies endings/plot points that cause debate (POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT)

Fausto · February 04, 2009, 11:12:37 PM

I saw the John Carpenter film Prince of Darkness on fearnet yesterday. I enjoyed it, although a few parts were a little confusing. Tonight I checked the page on imdb, and was struck by a thread where fans - now twenty years after the release - were still trying to figure out what the ending meant. Some went as far as to watch a repeated dream sequence over several times to decipher differing narration. This is not an unusual experience among movie fans, especially if certain aspects are intentionally vague or unexplained (Donnie Darko, anyone?). After all, movies are art, and any form of art has less to do with the artist's intention than how it is interpereted by the viewer. At the same time, one cant help trying to figure out what the filmmaker was trying to get across. In any case, getting different perspectives can enhance the experience (that thread's gonna keep me up tonight...). What are some films you think need to be deciphered? What films do you think you have an answer for?

meQal · February 05, 2009, 12:08:34 AM

So is this thread a list of those endings/plot points that cause debate or a discussion on the ending of Prince of Darkness ending which is debated?

Fausto · February 05, 2009, 06:44:41 AM

Quote from: meQal on February 05, 2009, 12:08:34 AM
So is this thread a list of those endings/plot points that cause debate or a discussion on the ending of Prince of Darkness ending which is debated?

Mainly a list of different endings, although you'll want to explain the controversy and your own take on it, whatever that might be. P of D is one example. Another might be the contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction (Which some have theorized contains anything from the diamonds in Resevior Dogs to Marsellus Wallace's soul). If the thread generates its own discussion, all the better.

schmendrik · February 05, 2009, 07:50:13 AM

These aren't exactly "what happened at the end". It's more like "the end throws all your assumptions about the movie into doubt, so what the hell actually happened in the movie?"

Memento
Caché (French)
Swimming Pool (French/English)

(warning, spoilers below)

Memento -- did Leonard kill his own wife accidentally? Then why did he kill Teddy?
Caché -- What is that last shot all about? Who is doing the surveillance and why?
Swimming Pool -- WTF? So who was that French girl?

Jack · February 05, 2009, 07:58:01 AM

2001 Certainly caused a lot of speculation with its ending. Was he taken into the realm of some sort of alien/godlike beings, or perhaps God himself? Why did he seem to jump from one age to another?

meQal · February 05, 2009, 01:48:02 PM

Well if we are going to list debated ending and plot points, we need to go ahead and get the biggest debate in Star Wars out of the way which is who shot first, Han or Greedo? I'm of the Han shot first school myself but Lucas re-edited it to show Greedo did.
As far as the case in Pulp Fiction, I've heard the debate but Wallace's soul is a new twist to the argument.

Doggett · February 05, 2009, 05:04:49 PM

American Psycho.
I said the same thing on the imdb..

Did he or did he not kill...

peter johnson · February 05, 2009, 05:29:44 PM

2001: I've had my lengthy say about this one before, but the "jumping" is the accelerated evolution that the alien intelligence is having him undergo. When he is the Star Being at the end, he is there, both literally and symbolically, ready to be born as something unfathomable, but nontheless the next step in our -- humanity's -- engineered development that began with the obelisk. There are those who say I got that from the book, but I understood it implicitly when I first saw it in Cinerama at age 10, and didn't read Clarke's book until in my 20's.
* * *
My classic WTF: What is the final shot in "Taxi Driver" supposed to convey? His Zen confrontation with who he is/what he has become? Does he reach enlightenment, or is he being devoured by his own depraved mind? It's as if he's shooting into himself/looking into his own abyss, which in turn is looking into him. It makes me uncomfortable, I know it's art, but I'm bothered that I don't get it. And I really like Scorcese.
* * *
Also, no "mystery" to the ending, but damn I thought "Mirrors" deserves a better one . . .

peter kvetch/denny complain

BoyScoutKevin · February 05, 2009, 06:05:43 PM

Quote from: meQal on February 05, 2009, 01:48:02 PM
Well if we are going to list debated ending and plot points, we need to go ahead and get the biggest debate in Star Wars out of the way which is who shot first, Han or Greedo? I'm of the Han shot first school myself but Lucas re-edited it to show Greedo did.
As far as the case in Pulp Fiction, I've heard the debate but Wallace's soul is a new twist to the argument.

I'm with you. Han shot first. Then Lucas re-edited it and (IMHO) ruined one of the best scenes in the film. Look at it this way. You know someone is out to kill you, would you shoot first, or let that person have the first shot? If you had any sense, like Han did, before Lucas re-edited the scene, you'd shoot first. But Lucas does not know enough to leave something alone, when there is nothing wrong with it.

jimmybob · February 05, 2009, 06:51:03 PM

THE EVIL (1978) - Last half hour: WHAT THE F#CK ?!

-Jimmybob

Jim H · February 09, 2009, 05:40:16 AM

Cemetery Man's ending. I don't get it. Well, I sort of do, how nothing he does matters and he can't escape from that no matter what he does. But, still, I don't get it.

In Tetsuo the Iron Man, who/what is the homeless guy with the stick?

Doggett · February 09, 2009, 08:39:49 AM

Inland Empire.

THE WHOLE 3 HOURS!!!!!!

Paquita · February 09, 2009, 08:47:13 AM

I don't understand what happened at the end of Gates of Hell, but I think that you're not supposed to know what happened.

In Neverending Story, I can never make out the name Sebastian yells out at the end.

schmendrik · February 09, 2009, 12:16:41 PM

Quote from: peter johnson on February 05, 2009, 05:29:44 PM
My classic WTF: What is the final shot in "Taxi Driver" supposed to convey? His Zen confrontation with who he is/what he has become? Does he reach enlightenment, or is he being devoured by his own depraved mind? It's as if he's shooting into himself/looking into his own abyss, which in turn is looking into him. It makes me uncomfortable, I know it's art, but I'm bothered that I don't get it. And I really like Scorcese.

I don't remember this final shot, but your comment reminds me of another confusing final shot, at the end of The Graduate. Dustin Hoffman and Katherine Ross have escaped the wedding, they catch a bus, she's still wearing her wedding dress. And they suddenly don't look happy at all. More like "WTF did we just do? Now what?".

What's that all about? Are they glad to be together or not? Should Elaine go back and marry the rich guy?

Mr. DS · February 09, 2009, 12:35:24 PM

QuoteWell if we are going to list debated ending and plot points, we need to go ahead and get the biggest debate in Star Wars out of the way which is who shot first, Han or Greedo? I'm of the Han shot first school myself but Lucas re-edited it to show Greedo did.

Its so obvious its Han. Lucas wanted to make him look like a good guy but deep at heart, Han is a seedy character. Why would Greedo shoot the wall when Han is 2 feet away from him?

QuoteAmerican Psycho.
I said the same thing on the imdb..

Did he or did he not kill...

I like the movie but you're right, did he or didn't he. I'm going to say it was all in his head because he is described as spineless by a few characters.

Ok heres one...One Hour Photo. Does anyone have a clue what happened at the end of that film? That and what was truly behind Sy's madness? He mentions something about someone never taking or making children do certain things. Was he abused as a kid? Why wasn't there pictures in the camera? Why did he make those people take those pictures if he wasn't going to use them?