ODD?

[HappyGilmore]

I'm not saying that I completely discredit these conditions. I don't want it to be taken that way.

I do, however, think that the "community" tends to conveniently stigmatize children as having a "disorder," and parents who may not be the best parents in the world readily accept it and subject their child into treatments and, shudder, drugs that significantly alter who that child really is. Additionally, educators in general tend to encourage this practice enthusiastically because they don't want to deal with a difficult child, and sadly don't have the child's best interest in mind in such encouragment. Many parents don't research their rights and get pressured into drug therapies by all these influences, and in many cases end up with zombie children who are more tolerable by everybody, but who are often robbed of their gifts and their identity.

I do agree with that aspect.  Kids are entirely overmedicated for the littlest of things.  Based on my experiences growing up and tests and whatnot, apparently I fall under the radar for ADD/ADHD, and ODD.  For one reason or another, I never got medicated.  Probably should've, but I wasn't as bad as others in terms of their conditions.  I was 'functional', if that makes sense.  My cousin, though, isn't, and as such is medicated.  I dunno.  Based on what I saw in her case, some should be.  Not all though, as you said.

[HappyGilmore]

I have a theory that we are all, every last one of us Americans, alcoholic, drug-addicted, or medicated. 

Yeah.  In my case, all three at one point or another in my lifetime.

[The Gravekeeper]

I've been through the system, and I stand by my belief that not every case needs drugs. So a kid's disruptive in class; maybe they're bored and just don't like sitting in a desk for hours on end. Kids just have more energy than adults, hence why they absolutely need recesses throughout the day to help burn off that energy and help them focus again.

Hell, I remember in elementary school occasionally getting tested for various things and the school calling my Mom to let her know that they were doing some speech therapy with me because I couldn't pronounce "th" properly. She flipped her lid when she heard about that, since it was obvious that I was just picking up my Dad's french accent. They stopped pulling me out of class for that BS and I learned to pronounce "th" just fine.

Later they started testing me to see if I had a learning disability since I tend to doodle while I'm listening to lectures and whatnot, thus making teachers think I'm not paying attention. The gaping hole in their theory? I was an "A" student and could repeat every word a teacher had just said when they asked me to do so. Yeah. Not a learning disability, just a tad absent-minded and I remember things better if I'm doing something with my hands at the time.

And yet they missed diagnosing the actual life-long mental problem. Way to go elementary school counselors!

[AndyC]

People do need to let go of the one-size-fits-all approach to learning. Many people do concentrate better with a little distraction. My wife can't sit through a long meeting or a seminar, or even a TV show, without knitting or needle felting or some sort of craft. Me, I like music playing, or a TV just for background noise, or I like to doodle. We recently took a training course together that required us to spend two full weekends - all day, Saturday and Sunday - in a classroom. She made a bagfull of felt toys and I designed a self-setting digital clock with a foot-high display.

People tend to have this idea that you can't pay attention if you aren't sitting quietly and doing nothing else. I used to have a boss, back when I was 18 or 19, who used to complain about us wearing headphones on the job. But if I took them off, my mind wouldn't have enough to occupy itself. I'd get bored, start daydreaming, get distracted by something. My mind would be less on my work. I think my boss understood that somewhat, since he always had CBC Radio on while he worked. I think his problem was more with what we listened to, being kind of a symphony snob.

I always had trouble paying attention in school. Part of that was, I think, real ADHD, which I still have, and only recently started taking medication for. But a big part of it certainly was being made to sit there, paying attention to nothing but a lesson I got the gist of within a few minutes.

[Flick James]

People do need to let go of the one-size-fits-all approach to learning. Many people do concentrate better with a little distraction. My wife can't sit through a long meeting or a seminar, or even a TV show, without knitting or needle felting or some sort of craft. Me, I like music playing, or a TV just for background noise, or I like to doodle. We recently took a training course together that required us to spend two full weekends - all day, Saturday and Sunday - in a classroom. She made a bagfull of felt toys and I designed a self-setting digital clock with a foot-high display.

People tend to have this idea that you can't pay attention if you aren't sitting quietly and doing nothing else. I used to have a boss, back when I was 18 or 19, who used to complain about us wearing headphones on the job. But if I took them off, my mind wouldn't have enough to occupy itself. I'd get bored, start daydreaming, get distracted by something. My mind would be less on my work. I think my boss understood that somewhat, since he always had CBC Radio on while he worked. I think his problem was more with what we listened to, being kind of a symphony snob.

I always had trouble paying attention in school. Part of that was, I think, real ADHD, which I still have, and only recently started taking medication for. But a big part of it certainly was being made to sit there, paying attention to nothing but a lesson I got the gist of within a few minutes.

I like your post, Andy. What I wonder is, why are you taking medication? It sounds like you don't have any problems. Does this cause you significant problems in life? This is not a judgment in any way. It's a personal choice (as opposed to it being imposed upon you), and if it helps something that is a problem in your life, then go for it. I'm just curious because from what you describe it doesn't sound like a problem.

[macabre]

hi
I can see  where you are going with your opinion Flick but you seem to be more concernend with the medication issue.I can only speak from my own experience and the experiences of my children i teach and i don't know the process in America for disabled children.The UK and especially in the north where i live is very stringent with whom may or may not require medication,you cannot just go to your local G.P and tell them you wish for this or that medicine.I think the door can swing both ways with this issue ,you can either demand that your child has access to medication or you can just take a somewhat old fashioned  train of thought and just ignore the child's obvious difficulties and put it down to "the child just being a child" . I do fully agree that some children are overdosed on unwarranted medication but we must not ignore the fact that some children require medication even if this dulls their senses.I know fro experience that some of my son's earlier medication left him acting like a zombie,however when he was took off this medication his  seizures became intensified and dangerous to himself .

[AndyC]

I like your post, Andy. What I wonder is, why are you taking medication? It sounds like you don't have any problems. Does this cause you significant problems in life? This is not a judgment in any way. It's a personal choice (as opposed to it being imposed upon you), and if it helps something that is a problem in your life, then go for it. I'm just curious because from what you describe it doesn't sound like a problem.

The short, terse answer: I think after almost 40 years of this, I know whether I need medication or not. ( )

Now, the long answer:

The motivational problem comes with depression (occasionally severe) and some OCD, all of which have been present since I was a kid, and all of which have proven difficult to deal with any other way. It was the depression I finally sought medical treatment for. I was taking Zoloft for a while, which seemed to fix the anxiety, but not so much the depression, and made the motivation problem much worse. In a way, it just made me less concerned about not getting anything done.

Treating the condition as ADHD seems to work. A dopamine reuptake inhibitor and a time-released stimulant appear to help with everything, although I'm still tapering off the Zoloft. Gotta do that very slowly. Too quickly, and the anxiety goes up, although that's only now. I initially halved the dose and saw immediate improvement across the board, which is what confirmed in my mind that I'm finally on the right track. Serotonin deficiency never made sense for me, because I have the ass-backward seasonal affective disorder that flares up in the summer, when serotonin levels are usually higher. Also explains why every serotonin reuptake inhibitor I tried before Zoloft made my depression much worse. I was tipping the imbalance further in the wrong direction. Turning my attention to dopamine and norepinephrine was the logical choice, and I'm seeing improvement.

That's why these conditions are so difficult to categorize and treat. You seldom have just one thing, and what appear to be the same symptoms are not always caused by the same imbalance of chemicals.

[Flick James]

hi
I can see  where you are going with your opinion Flick but you seem to be more concernend with the medication issue.I can only speak from my own experience and the experiences of my children i teach and i don't know the process in America for disabled children.The UK and especially in the north where i live is very stringent with whom may or may not require medication,you cannot just go to your local G.P and tell them you wish for this or that medicine.I think the door can swing both ways with this issue ,you can either demand that your child has access to medication or you can just take a somewhat old fashioned  train of thought and just ignore the child's obvious difficulties and put it down to "the child just being a child" . I do fully agree that some children are overdosed on unwarranted medication but we must not ignore the fact that some children require medication even if this dulls their senses.I know fro experience that some of my son's earlier medication left him acting like a zombie,however when he was took off this medication his  seizures became intensified and dangerous to himself .

Like I said, it's a general opinion, and does not disrespect or fail to take into account cases where medication is truly needed.

[Flick James]

I like your post, Andy. What I wonder is, why are you taking medication? It sounds like you don't have any problems. Does this cause you significant problems in life? This is not a judgment in any way. It's a personal choice (as opposed to it being imposed upon you), and if it helps something that is a problem in your life, then go for it. I'm just curious because from what you describe it doesn't sound like a problem.

The short, terse answer: I think after almost 40 years of this, I know whether I need medication or not. ( )

Now, the long answer:

The motivational problem comes with depression (occasionally severe) and some OCD, all of which have been present since I was a kid, and all of which have proven difficult to deal with any other way. It was the depression I finally sought medical treatment for. I was taking Zoloft for a while, which seemed to fix the anxiety, but not so much the depression, and made the motivation problem much worse. In a way, it just made me less concerned about not getting anything done.

Treating the condition as ADHD seems to help with everything. A dopamine reuptake inhibitor and a time-released stimulant appear to help with everything, although I'm still tapering off the Zoloft. Gotta do that very slowly. Too quickly, and the anxiety goes up, although that's only now. I initially halved the dose and saw immediate improvement across the board, which is what confirmed in my mind that I'm finally on the right track. Serotonin deficiency never made sense for me, because I have the ass-backward seasonal affective disorder that flares up in the summer, when serotonin levels are usually higher. Also explains why every serotonin reuptake inhibitor I tried before Zoloft made my depression much worse. I was tipping the imbalance further in the wrong direction. Turning my attention to dopamine and norepinephrine was the logical choice, and I'm seeing improvement.

That's why these conditions are so difficult to categorize and treat. You seldom have just one thing, and what appear to be the same symptoms are not always caused by the same imbalance of chemicals.

Well, that was what I was saying. You're an adult and you know what helps you, plus you're your own advocate and can make up your own mind what's in your best interest. Children don't have that right or luxury, they have to rely on their parents to be their advocate. Like I said, it wasn't a judgment, I was just curious.