Did Britain cause most of the worlds problems ?

[RCMerchant]

Just for the record . . . Lester is wrong, as usual. Blair and Bush are heroes.

So there!

I dont know too much about Blair...I DO know that Bush was a liar who got us involved in Iraq under false pretenses (Weapons of Mass Distruction,anyone?).

[Doggett]

Just for the record . . . Lester is wrong, as usual. Blair and Bush are heroes.

So there!

I dont know too much about Blair...I DO know that Bush was a liar who got us involved in Iraq under false pretenses (Weapons of Mass Distruction,anyone?).

Prett much everyone over here hates Blair.

I liked Gordon though.

[lester1/2jr]

well it must be said of Gordon Brown that he sold rather a large chunk of Britains gold reserve when the gold market was at it's lows. Many tons of the stuff were unloaded at around $300 an ounce. Today it is nearing $1500. oops!

[Doggett]

well it must be said of Gordon Brown that he sold rather a large chunk of Britains gold reserve when the gold market was at it's lows. Many tons of the stuff were unloaded at around $300 an ounce. Today it is nearing $1500. oops!

And to think Blair put him in charge of the money for all those years...


But thats what he's like. 

[indianasmith]

RC - you know I love ya, man!  But words do mean things.  First of all, in order for something to be a LIE, the person conveying the information must KNOW it to be false.  Bush certainly believed that the weapons were there, and that belief was not unreasonable.

Every available intelligence report said that Saddam had WMD.  Why wouldn't he have them?  He'd had and used them in the past, he'd played shell games with the UN Weapons inspectors for years and then booted them out of the country.  He ACTED like he had them, right up to the very end.  He even offered them to Yassir Arafat and Hizbollah as late as 2002.  So we had every reason in the world to believe they were there.

Strangelove - you're a newbie here, and frankly, you don't make much of a first impression.  Yes, the war cost a lot of lives.  I have many friends who served over there; I actually tried to go as the war began and was told I was too old to re-enlist.  But the fact is, a brutal dictator was toppled.  The organized forces of world terror - Iran and Syria, to name names - funneled thousands of fighters and billions of dollars into Iraq trying to eject our forces and prevent the establishment of a democratic government there - AND FAILED.  For all the ongoing rhetoric about our "calamity in Iraq", the fact is that the U.S. and its Allies WON THE WAR, despite the defeatist carping of Democrats who would rather see our country lose a war than see GWB get credit for winning one.  Remember Harry Reid: "The surge has failed . . . this war is lost!" even as our troops were turning the tide.  What a loser.  Not unlike yourself.

[Rev. Powell]

Reminder: no need for personal attacks.  They will get the thread locked if they get out of hand.

[Ed, Ego and Superego]

Reminder: no need for personal attacks.  They will get the thread locked if they get out of hand.

I agree, y'all are better than that.  People can disagree without getting personal.

[Leah]

Just for the record . . . Lester is wrong, as usual. Blair and Bush are heroes.

So there!

I dont know too much about Blair...I DO know that Bush was a liar who got us involved in Iraq under false pretenses (Weapons of Mass Distruction,anyone?).

RC - you know I love ya, man!  But words do mean things.  First of all, in order for something to be a LIE, the person conveying the information must KNOW it to be false.  Bush certainly believed that the weapons were there, and that belief was not unreasonable.

Every available intelligence report said that Saddam had WMD.  Why wouldn't he have them?  He'd had and used them in the past, he'd played shell games with the UN Weapons inspectors for years and then booted them out of the country.  He ACTED like he had them, right up to the very end.  He even offered them to Yassir Arafat and Hizbollah as late as 2002.  So we had every reason in the world to believe they were there.

Strangelove - you're a newbie here, and frankly, you don't make much of a first impression.  Yes, the war cost a lot of lives.  I have many friends who served over there; I actually tried to go as the war began and was told I was too old to re-enlist.  But the fact is, a brutal dictator was toppled.  The organized forces of world terror - Iran and Syria, to name names - funneled thousands of fighters and billions of dollars into Iraq trying to eject our forces and prevent the establishment of a democratic government there - AND FAILED.  For all the ongoing rhetoric about our "calamity in Iraq", the fact is that the U.S. and its Allies WON THE WAR, despite the defeatist carping of Democrats who would rather see our country lose a war than see GWB get credit for winning one.  Remember Harry Reid: "The surge has failed . . . this war is lost!" even as our troops were turning the tide.  What a loser.  Not unlike yourself.

Indy, first off, the situation with the WMD coulda been avoided if Bush had remembered about the SR-71 Black bird. secondly, Bush wasn't a hero in 2005 because of Katrina. Thirdly, he didn't moderate the bankers- which led to the exaggerated 'worst thing ever to happen in America"- the recension. It's amazing how much technology can influence a person the wrong way. basically, Obama got blamed for the recension when he didn't have anything to do with it.

[indianasmith]

I got a little heated there; I'm not used to having my karma dinged for simply giving my opinion.  I was poking fun at Lester the way I frequently do, and this guy jumped in and turned it personal.  Sorry if my response was a little inflammatory.

Now, El Toro - I'll answer you to the best of my knowledge and understanding, which, with 6 buck or so, will get you a Happy Meal at MacDonald's.  Or at least it will until the Food Police ban Happy Meals.

First of all, we did have SR-71's overflying Iraq and taking pictures.  However, they can't see through walls or into underground bunkers, so they couldn't exactly confirm or deny what our intelligence agents were telling the President.

True, the Federal Government did blow it in the response to Katrina - but so did the State and Local government, and on a much bigger level.  Bush COULDN'T send in the military and national guard until the governor declared a state of emergency, and she refused to do so until three days after the storm hit.  As for Mayor Nagin - well, he pretty much set new records for pure incompetence in office.  It was a terrible natural disaster, and there was a great deal of blame to go around.  Some of it indeed falls on Bush's shoulders - but not nearly as much as his detractors would have you believe.

   Now, I THINK by "recension" you mean "recession" - unless I totally miss my guess.  Like all economic things, that was an enormously complicated event set in motion by policies that go clear back to the Carter administration.  The meltdown of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was caused, to  a large extent, by Federal policies implemented under the Community Re-Investment Act which forced banks to loan money to people who had no means to pay it back.  The push for "affordable housing" was so strong banks were threatened with penalties if the DIDN'T make housing loans to lower income families.  And there is very clear audio and video evidence that REPUBLICAN senators, including John McCain among others, were calling for MORE regulation and inspections on the two Federal lending agencies,  while Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, among others, are on record as assuring the Senate that there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and that there concern was COMPLETELY unmerited.

   George W. Bush was not a perfect President.  He made mistakes in office, he was too loyal to some subordinates that did not deserve it, and he did not rein in Congressional spending the way he should have.  But Obama's record of sheer incompetence and arrogance is staggering.  I would rather have FORTY years of GWB than four more years of BHO!!!

  So there you have my candid, and (I hope) politely expressed opinions.  Dr. Strangelove, you are welcome to respond - but I'd just as soon you left my karma alone.  We are even on that score.

[Zapranoth]

Hoo hoo hoo, y'awl have way too much time on your hands.

Hey, that reminds me of a song...

[indianasmith]

I have this rare disorder.  I cannot rest at night as long as there are people on the internet who are wrong.

[Raffine]

I have this rare disorder.  I cannot rest at night as long as there are people on the internet who are wrong.

For your health's sake I hope you're able to catch an occassional afternoon nap!   

[lester1/2jr]

indiana- well I think the proof is in the pudding. Good for you that you tried to enlist but many did not and soldiers are on their 4, 5th tours making up the slack. We didn't have this problem in ww2 and it says alot abuot what people think about the war effort: they don't suport it when push comes to shove.

Every available intelligence report said that Saddam had WMD.

not at all true but even if it was, There was no way Saddam Hussein was going to launch a nuclear missile at the United States! He'd be vaporized before he even thought of it.

The connection of him to al queda was related to very old very discredited talking points regarding the first WTC attack like those found in  this demented tome

There was never any smoking gun with saddam at any rate. We didn't have pictures of him hanging out with BIn Laden or video of WMD going into caves or something. The Taliban operated openly with Bin Laden and quite overtly.

if anyone is supporting terror in the middle east it is Saudi Arabia, who are funding all these insane wahabi moqsues across the world. It's great if something good ends up coming out of it ,but the iraq war was a 10/10 on the disaster scale and it pretty well sunk the last decade.

As for the housing bubble both sides played their part for political expediency regarding deregulation and Fannie and Freddie but the one at the switch was Greenspan who stupidly left interst rates at rock bottom for far too long and ensured a massive malinvestment in housing. and Bernanke has continued it, so we have boom era gas prices and a recession economy! What a great combo for the unemployed especially.


and we haven't even talked about medicare part D aka Bushcare! A massive multi trillion dollar unfunded liability.

Glad I 'm not a W bagholder. Or for Obama for that matter.

[Leah]

I got a little heated there; I'm not used to having my karma dinged for simply giving my opinion.  I was poking fun at Lester the way I frequently do, and this guy jumped in and turned it personal.  Sorry if my response was a little inflammatory.

Sometimes making fun at someone can cause hatred Indy. Trust me, it can be fun every now and then, if it's minor, but when it's something like this, it gets to be immature.

[Psycho Circus]

I think this topic has run it's course. You don't wanna end up like the all the scumbag politicians you're discussing.

This is a special place, a place of peace & love.