COVID-19 Rant

[zelmo73]

It is hard to "trust the science" when it is being rushed out so quickly. They are expecting 75,000 human lab rats to be the prototypical template for billions of people around the world; that is akin to one drop of fresh water in the Dead Sea, hoping that it gets rid of all of the salt in the seawater. And the way that they are selling the snake oil: "Oh no, we didn't skip the lab animal trials, we did them at the same time!"  

This is a for-layperson counterexample that is correct,

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/11/20/allison-weis-covid/

If you take very specific exception to any points raised, glad to discuss.

There's no need for a discussion. The article itself answered all that I need to know:

As for the questions regarding long term safety – in 10 years will there be major health complications due to the vaccine alone? This will remain an open question until we actually get there,

You're still trying to sell us snake oil, man. 

[Zapranoth]

It is hard to "trust the science" when it is being rushed out so quickly. They are expecting 75,000 human lab rats to be the prototypical template for billions of people around the world; that is akin to one drop of fresh water in the Dead Sea, hoping that it gets rid of all of the salt in the seawater. And the way that they are selling the snake oil: "Oh no, we didn't skip the lab animal trials, we did them at the same time!"  

This is a for-layperson counterexample that is correct,

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/11/20/allison-weis-covid/

If you take very specific exception to any points raised, glad to discuss.

There's no need for a discussion. The article itself answered all that I need to know:

As for the questions regarding long term safety – in 10 years will there be major health complications due to the vaccine alone? This will remain an open question until we actually get there,

You're still trying to sell us snake oil, man. 

Zelmo,

Do not even pretend that you're interested in considering the alternatives to what you already believe.

Are you a bench scientist, or at least some type of medical professional?

What do you bring to the table, except your access to the internet?

[zelmo73]

It is hard to "trust the science" when it is being rushed out so quickly. They are expecting 75,000 human lab rats to be the prototypical template for billions of people around the world; that is akin to one drop of fresh water in the Dead Sea, hoping that it gets rid of all of the salt in the seawater. And the way that they are selling the snake oil: "Oh no, we didn't skip the lab animal trials, we did them at the same time!"  

This is a for-layperson counterexample that is correct,

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/11/20/allison-weis-covid/

If you take very specific exception to any points raised, glad to discuss.

There's no need for a discussion. The article itself answered all that I need to know:

As for the questions regarding long term safety – in 10 years will there be major health complications due to the vaccine alone? This will remain an open question until we actually get there,

You're still trying to sell us snake oil, man. 

Zelmo,

Do not even pretend that you're interested in considering the alternatives to what you already believe.

Are you a bench scientist, or at least some type of medical professional?

What do you bring to the table, except your access to the internet?

Don't attempt to hide your bias, Mr. Medical Professional. I have a particular skepticism toward any "experts" that urge me to inject a foreign substance into my body using such desperate measures. You would fail as a used car salesman, Zapranoth. In the end, your article is still bragging about a "90-95% effective ranking" in its rushed vaccine for a disease with a 94-99% survivability rate. You don't need a college degree to spot b.s.; just a little street smarts and common sense, is all.

[Zapranoth]

I guess I just don't see it as "trusting" science.

Science represents our best method to try to have mastery over things like pandemics.   There are good and bad examples of scientific work, and there are always frauds and snake oil salesmen, wherever there are human beings.  But nothing I can say will really bridge the gap between how you see things and how I see them, in this.  

I see that an army of experts have perceived the threat and made recommendations -- many people who are really trying to better the world for all of us.      There is a sound epidemiological argument to be made about death rates, and transmission rates, and vaccination efficacy, and lives saved that you are blowing by in your dismissiveness, as though you had expertise in these things (and since you have not said that you do, I am assuming now that you don't).    There are guys like the mask-hoarder in NY and the people busted for selling covid "cures."    But bench scientists and epidemiologists, perhaps Dr. Fauci -- frauds?      Come on now.   In the face of the kind of "unbelief" you're espousing, what can I really say?

On a personal level, I've worked  hard in the last year to try to keep people where I am from dying of all of this.  Worked pretty hard, above and beyond the "hard" there already is in a job that most people frankly couldn't do if they even wanted to do it (which they don't).   I say work hard, when to me "working hard" was when an 80-hour week was one of the easier weeks when I trained, and a bad one was 105-110 hours.  When getting up at 4 AM (after turning in at 3:30)  to do another ICU admit was just the work to be done -- to take a history, do a physical exam, talk to a worried family and make medical decisions that perhaps will decide if someone lives or dies, when I haven't slept and it's *4 AM.*   *I* was the one making those decisions, under those conditions, when I did hospital and ICU work (which I do not do anymore).  *I* am the one on whose name those decisions and responsibility lay, when doing that work.  

I have done this work at personal risk of my own life.  I'm 49 and in good health, but I am exposed to sick people more than most *anyone* else is -- I see undifferentiated patients who may or may not have covid, and if they have it they may not know or have symptoms.   I sit close to them for 15-40 minutes at a time in a closed room, talk to them, get in their space to examine them as needed, sometimes unmask them to do it if that's needed.  I have done this through varying degrees of having PPE to do the work well, and through all degrees of us knowing what we're dealing with, and not knowing that (earlier on).  

Very little time off in the last year.   i have taken very little chance in my personal life to be exposed, and thus to risk exposing the people that I see and will see, because that would be irresponsible of me.   No travel to my family in Alaska.    Just work, really, except a few days here and there.

Even if the risk is relatively small (for me to get sick *and* die doing my job) it's still risk that is there, and I well know that many other people take the same risks to check groceries, sell phones, work in nursing homes, and other kinds of work besides what I do.    But I work with sick people, more than other professions do.

I do have faith in my body's ability to fight and win.  But other medical professionals just like me have thought the same thing and have died and left widows and kids.  Upwards of 1500 or so in the US so far?   More?        (I have a wife, and kids, by the way.)

I'll leave off on insulting you, and I ask that you do the same with me.  I'm not sure why you seem basically angry with the medical establishment, but there's probably a story there.   But you don't know me, and I don't know you, at the end of the day.

I firmly believe that the more people that are vaccinated with these new vaccines that are approved for use, the fewer people we will see die, the less economic damage we will have.    Fewer people losing their businesses and livelihoods.   And my kids will get to hug my mom, and my brother will let me come visit him in his home, and I'll be able to see peoples faces again.

[Alex]

It seems some people just like running around fearing the sky is going to fall on them. Personally, when I get offered one I'll be quite happy to have one.

[Rev. Powell]

I think part of the problem is the vaccine skeptics you only consider how the disease and the vaccine will affect them. Of course any individual is unlikely to die from Covid (though still far, far more likely to die from Covid than from a vaccine). But a disease that has a 99% survivability rate will still kill millions of people worldwide, and maybe half a million people in the U.S. alone. And people who get it and don't die, or even feel symptoms, can still spread it to someone who will die from it.

Widespread vaccination can bring us herd immunity, make Covid into a historical disease like polio, and help the economy get back to normal much faster. If enough people get vaccinated, you can stop wearing a mask at the grocery store. It's a community thing: let's all pull together and beat this virus. It's really just common sense.

[Alex]

Alas Rev, welcome to how short-sighted and selfish some people really are.

[zelmo73]

I think part of the problem is the vaccine skeptics you only consider how the disease and the vaccine will affect them.

Well, who else looks out for #1? Where were you the last time that I got sick?

[Alex]

I think part of the problem is the vaccine skeptics you only consider how the disease and the vaccine will affect them.

Well, who else looks out for #1? Where were you the last time that I got sick?

Thanks for proving my point. Oh, did you make an appointment to go see him the last time you got sick?

[Rev. Powell]

I think part of the problem is the vaccine skeptics you only consider how the disease and the vaccine will affect them.

Well, who else looks out for #1? Where were you the last time that I got sick?

Your agent, i.e., your doctor. If your doctor says in your case you shouldn't get vaccinated, then by all means follow his advice.

While it's true we all have the most to gain or lose from our own health choices, it's also true that none of us has the necessary expertise to make the right choices, without input from people who know what they're doing.

[RCMerchant]

Zelmo- just get the f**king shot. If you ain't scared of the virus, why worry about the shot?
I assume your a strapping young lad! Full of vim and vigor!
I dare you to get the shot! I double dare you!  
Quit being a whiner.

[Rev. Powell]

Latest trend is promising.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/11/covid-live-updates.html

[RCMerchant]

We will all (well, not all) survive this. Just like WW1 and WW2, the 1960's ( I was actually alive then!)
This year is like 1969 only worse.
Except I wasn't in an orphanage. And my Ma and Dad weren't getting divorced.
But a lot the same. Race riots. Nixon.
Nope- this year was more insane. Even without Vietnam. Maybe. I don't know.

[zelmo73]

Latest trend is promising.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/11/covid-live-updates.html

No need to take the vaccine then, since cases are trending downward now. I'll just wait for herd immunity like we did with the flu. 

[indianasmith]

Latest trend is promising.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/11/covid-live-updates.html

No need to take the vaccine then, since cases are trending downward now. I'll just wait for herd immunity like we did with the flu. 

The vaccine is one of the REASONS cases are trending down.   You're just trolling for the sake of trolling now.