Think before you speak...

[Flangepart]

Oh, Boy Squishy realy stepped in it this time.
....And, i guess i am too, for bothering to reply.......Oh,well.
....Poorly worded first paragrapeh, Squish. No, Heston did not plan on Pro-gun rallys when ever there is a school shooting. See, and you wonder why some bipeds think your so mean. Too much Michael Moore in your mental diet. Makes you dispeptic. Sure does me......
....As for Liddy. I could catch his show a few years ago. I remember the explanation he gave. He ment it regards improperly warrent serving. There is a proper way to serve a warrent, and it does intail some risk to the officers, but ensureing the people in the building know they are dealing with law officers is part of doing thing by the book. A lil bit extream, his attitude? True. I just want the record strait. He intended it as a comment on Abuse of authority by Goverment agencys....and how many movie plots have stood on THAT foundation? Still, if the gov. want yer arse, they will get it, justified or not. Big Brother is watching ALL of us, my Droogs....
....Oh,well. Flame on, Squishmister. Gotta belch out those flames of rightiousness. Oh, and Chadzilla.....say what you want, too. If ya wanna enjoy freedom of speech, ya gotta live with being disagreed with.
....And that comes from a real NRA kinda guy. Remember, you have the RIGHT to own a gun...but, its not an OBLIGATION....unless your Swiss.
....Coo-coo...coo-coo.....

[Fearless Freep]

Oh, Boy Squishy realy stepped in it this time.

I figured Squishy only made two mistakes in haste.

1) Some posts branched of from the original Sigourney Weaver remark to make comments about celebrities in general (particaularly Creepazoid).  In, sarcastically, taking those comments back to Weaver, the point was missed that nobody was ascribing anything to her.  Nobody said anything abuot Weaver's marital or educational status, so by retaliating on that point about her pointedly, the remark was off target. Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken, the average IQ of posters here really doesn't effect the IQ of anyone else.  Even if we were all gibbering idiots (and given the movies we watch....) , that would not effect the high school graduation rate for Hollywood celebrities. In similar fashion, that comment was off target

2) Replying to the issue that celebrities are left wing wackos with comments showing right-wing celebrity wackos is a red herring.  So there are right wing celebrity wackos.  Moral of the story is that celebrities can be wackos, whataver political leaning in their persuasions.  Pointing out that there are right-wing wacko celebrities does not really address the comment that there are left-wing wacko celebrities so is not a very effective defense of left-wing politics or persons.

[Flangepart]

Hummm....great last point, Sir Freep.
....Maby we could open a store called "Gibbering loons-R-Us." You could get all our sale merchandise  from Burbank alone.......

[Dano]

Pointing out that there are right-wing wacko celebrities does not really address the comment that there are left-wing wacko celebrities so is not a very effective defense of left-wing politics or persons.
*****  Squishy was just standing up for his side - I can respect that.  And he makes a point:  right or left I can't ever remember hearing a movie star or a singer say anything intelligent about a political issue (exception: those who have actually become involved in the real work of politics as opposed to just pontificating from their ivory.. no, solid diamond towers).  Just like leftist celebrities, Heston overstates and oversimplifies and demonstrates no real grasp of the entire issue (meaning both sides).  

As to whether celebrities have the right to speak their mind (I use that word loosely), of course they do... And we have every right to laugh our asses off and express embarassment for them due to the idiotic things they say (although in Weaver's case it wasn't that bad frankly).  We also have every right to call hypocrites (Rosie O'Donnell is one) what they are.  As for whether we have any moral right to do this, I would say absolutely.  Maybe we're not members of MENSA (although I hope nobody considers that a serious criteria for intelligence), but we do live in a much more real world than your average multi-millionaire star and have a lot more appreciation for real world concerns.  Sean Connery got paid $2,000,000 for a day's work on Costner's Robin Hood.  TWO MILLION.  ONE DAY.  If you taxed him 90% he'd still be making money at a preposterous rate.  He's welcome to an opinion on government fiscal policy... but it doesn't carry nearly as much weight for me as the opinions of any one person on this message board.  Not even close.

[Chadzilla]

A member of the organization poisoned his neighbors, killing their mother, because he was offended by their stupidity and loud music.  He put thallium in their soda.  Thallium is an element that literally eats away at your nervous system, it is a slow and very, very painful way to die.  There is no cure.

Just some trivia that I picked up watching Forensic Files....

[Creepozoid]

I'm not saying that they don't have the right to express their opinions (but Alec Baldwin pushes the envelope). I just wish people would stop listening to them just because they are celebrities, especially when those people are ignorant folls in the first place.

And yeah. A Hollywood liberal probably would obstruct the marines and get killed by the aliens they are trying to defend.

[Dano]

I'm not saying that they don't have the right to express their opinions (but Alec Baldwin pushes the envelope).
*****  No - that's the point - in America, there is no envelope beyond creating a public hazard (fire in a crowded theater).  There's no going to far in expressing your opinion -- and if Alec Baldwin wants to keep showing his ass while trying to talk politics, I'll keep laughing.  The best was when the multi-millionaire champion of the common man was caught on tape shrieking at a meter maid, threatening to "have her fired" for writing him a $25 parking ticket.  He also vowed to leave the US if Bush became president and I think he's still around.  If you're someone who leans right, why would you want to silence such an embarassment to the left??

[J.R.]

But there are very, very few right-wing celebrities anyway. As Squishy and so many others like to point out there's Charlton Heston, and they always use the same tired, predictable jabs that prove nothing and only point out how weak whatever arguement they're making is by beating that dead, decomposed, and buried horse. Can you name any right-wing celebs who aren't in their twilight years, has-beens or filling out a waning career? I still wouldn't care what they have to say, it's just that Hollywood is left to the death.

[Newt]

Creepozoid said:  "And yeah. A Hollywood liberal probably would obstruct the marines and get killed by the aliens they are trying to defend."   ----  You know, I think I saw that movie.

I keep coming back here for the intelligent discussions.  Gotta love you guys.

[Squishy]

Some clarifications:

First, I meant no offense to Chadzilla. When I mentioned "irony," I meant that the usual "Crossfire: BMO" gang reacted to his original message with the usual "See! See! Liberal are TEH BAD!!!11" spaz-outs. I was making fun of them, not CZ. While his description of the "Aliens" segment may be correct, so is my description of the "Alien 3" segment, which suggests a different philosophy about self-defense on the part of Weaver.

"No, Heston did not plan on Pro-gun rallys when ever there is a school shooting."

...And I never said he did. (Read again.) However, it is extremely poor judgment to continue with pre-existing plans for one the same day the bodies are being buried. It may make some feel invulnerable ("Them grievin' parents can't push ME around!!"), but in the big picture it just hurts the cause.

Funny you should bring up Michael Moore, who is an NRA member. Believe it or not, like him, I support responsible gun ownership. I also believe in regulation and applied standards to qualify that ownership. This sort of thing makes us unpopular on both sides of the gun "debate"--read: simpleminded moron shriekfest--which helps convince me it's right.

Interesting Heston anecdote: in one instance in which his public opinions veered from the "official" beliefs of La Pierre's worshippers, he was immediately regulated to "Despicable Liberal Traitor" status by many until he backpedaled a few days later. Since then, he's been Moses all the way. (Google for details. Easily found.)

"But there are very, very few right-wing celebrities anyway."

Riiiiiiiight. I think you mean "movie stars," not "celebrities." All sorts of media figures are celebrities, and very many of them are conservative. (And speaking of "dead horses," J.R. trots out  Alec Baldwin, right on schedule.) Rush Limbaugh is a celebrity, and he's ALL politics. (And a quick Google will turn up probably upwards of three thousand sites listing all the demonstrably idiotic and false things he's said over the years, which is why I didn't bother to bring him up. Ditto Ann Coulter.)

Yes, many conservative actors are dead. There's a reason, I think. Example: John Wayne, while filming "The Conquerer" (in which his character "seduces" a woman by raping her, after which she is utterly devoted to him, woo-hoo, family values ahoy pilgrim), participated in a campaign to scoff at "lefty" concerns that the shooting site might be contaminated with radioactivity from A-bomb tests. He (and the entire production crew) had no idea at the time that the "lefties" were right to be concerned...

(And be sure to enjoy John Wayne's "The Green Berets," for its incredibly accurate depiction of the realities of--and philosophies behind--The Vietnam War. YES, I'm being sarcastic.)

And my statement about restricting Weaver's right to free expression was indeed a gag. (The " :) " should have been a tip-off.) I'm just making fun of this knee-jerk, ill-considered "Liberal Media" fantasy again.

Idiots exist in all ideologies; idiots with loud political opinions of little merit exist in all walks of life (hence the George Burns quote back in my first message). Newt Gingrich was once hailed as the Next Great Genius of Conservative Thought, and the monster's marital life is a revolting spectacle of selfish, vicious stupidity. Yet I'm supposed to dismiss each and every opinion expressed by a celebrity because some of them get...divorces?

If Hollywood were wholly in the grasp of some universal ultraliberal conspiracy to control the minds of America...why hasn't it worked? That line's been uttered for decades--from way back when it was "the Jews control Hollywood" (which conservatives no longer say because--**giggle**--it's POLITICALLY INCORRECT!! **laughs ass off at escalating irony, oh hi Dano**) or Joe McCarthy's Commie Conspiracy or George Will and Pat Buchanan sniffing about a "Culture War." And yet there is still Dirty Harry. And "Rambo III." And "The Right Stuff." And "Metal Gear Solid." And Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, and O'Reilly. And corporate-owned news outlets. And Medved. And "The 700 Club." And on and on and on.

Amazing, isn't it? The Liberals are so good at disguising their deep-rooted, desperate thought-control conspiracy, it's as if it isn't even there. The devious bastards!! :)

[Creepozoid]

Yeah. BUT PEOPLE LISTEN to them (most Californians follow their weample to a "T"). The whole world would be a better place if they were silenced.

[Squishy]

"Silenced?" You mean killed? Or just prevented from speaking? And who? Liberals? Californians? People? The whole world? Or just America?

Seriously: people need to think for themselves. Celebrity worship is not the fault of the celebrity; it's the fault of the worshipper.

[Flangepart]

M. Moore is an NRA member , for the sake of "In yer Face".....humm....should Tom Sellick join the the Violence policy Inst. for the same reason? Wonder how folks would take that?
....True, Squishy, you did not say Heston planed to show up after Columbine just to do an "In yer face" of his own, but in a hurried reading, i did take it that way. As one who does not blame the tool, but the monsters who misuse it, i did not react emotionaly to the presence of the NRA rally in that state, as i tend to think the monsters should be held responsable. Foolish, i know, but there it is....
....I too, support responsable gun owner ship.....but, lets agree on how that is defined. You don't shoot people, deliberatly or negligently, except in dire need,in unavoidable self defence. Simple, right?
....Not to the pro-gun control groups. They do want all guns  banned. And to see the resaults, look at England. Violent crime is on the rise. Would an armed citizenry decrese that? Likely. But...they would still be treating the symptoms, not the causes. Ultimatly, its a matter of the beliefs of a scociaty, and how those are expressed.
....Guns are no miricle cure. Look at Afganistan, or Somalia. I think part of the problim is this : It is how people look at other people.  The "I" Vs. "Them". The pro-gun control groups think they can remove violence by dealing with things.(Wepons). The anti-gun control groups know that is not possable, as human nature will find a way to express it self, as long as there is the DESIRE to take from others, by force, what the taker wants.
....And this is far more complex and difficult, then , to quote Bryan Gumbal " Just takeing all the guns away".
....Agine, i ask you....how many movies have we seen involving rebellions aginst tyrants? I wonder what titles would be on that list?
....What i mean is, as we have a deep, almost cellular level awareness of how easily power can be abused....why take it as granted that justice is dependable, from we frail, imperfect creatures?
....As an American, i see this debate this way. Give all power to the Goverment, and those people will mess up. How they do so, is mearly a matter of method.
....Things have changed, since i was a kid.
....Modern Liberality, is not what it once was. Nor is Conserivitisim. The two have passed throung each other, and some mixing has taken place. The Cons want relitivly less gov, the Libs want more. Each thinks its got the answers.
....Each is only partly right.
....And in this counrty, as every other, those who want power will say what is needed, and "Talk the talk" , to get it. I say agine...the partys are only a matter of chooseing between the lesser of two evils....so i guess it depends on what "Evils" you feel most comfortable with.
....A better man then i wrote a book that defined the different operating philosophys  of the two extreams. Thomas Sowell's "The vision of the Annointed".
Give it a look. At least it'll amuse you.
....Liberals think they can perfect themselves, and others. Conservitives know that can't happen. Hence, i fear the modern liberal, as he has become the new version of Joe McCarthy. Not deliberatly....in face, he is unaware of it.  But, it is the inevitable resauly of human imperfection just finding  another outlet.
....Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
....And if i have learned one thing, its this : Those who think they are doing you a great service, are most to be feared, as they can't see their errors...as they think error is impossable, with good intentions.
....And we all know what the road to hell is paved with.......
....Conservitives are hardly perfect...Look at Gingriche's pvt. life, indeed. I simply think, that, as a group, basicly, they are aware of their imperfections, on a level that, for what ever reason, Liberals have lost sight off.
....Well....enough pontficating for one day!

[Dano]

BUT PEOPLE LISTEN to them (most Californians follow their weample to a "T"). The whole world would be a better place if they were silenced.
*****  What the heck are you talking about "if they were silenced"???  What kind of statement is that for an American to make?  You can't really believe we should SILENCE people just because we don't like what they are saying, can you??  Seriously, can you?

As for people really listening to vapid entertainers, I don't buy it.  The West Wing is clearly a left-wing show that has a consistent formula of setting up strawman supporters of right-wing beliefs so that the witty and urbane main characters can rip them apart.  It is also one of the most popular shows in the country.  If people were listening to all the photogenic stars of the West Wing, then why didn't the Democrats do what everyone expected them to do in the elections a couple of weeks ago?  Almost all the stars out there are spewing anti-war invective about Bush's Iraq policy (despite the fact that the policy still may lead to a peaceful solution), and yet a clear majority of ordinary people supports the way Bush is handling things.  I don't see star power having any significant effect...  possibly because the types of people prone to listen to it are the same types of people who don't vote because they don't want to miss Entertainment Tonight.

[Dano]

 "the Jews control Hollywood" (which conservatives no longer say because--**giggle**--it's POLITICALLY INCORRECT!! **laughs ass off at escalating irony, oh hi Dano**)
*****  Hi Squish - looking at my posts here, you are right: I am up to my usual ultra-conservative tricks again (*rolls eyes*).  I should edit those posts for free thought.  As for the Jews controlling Hollywood, I think Farrakhan and Jesse and Sharpton would be interested to know that you classify them as "conservatives."  They're really the only people I can think of (them and some anonymous skinheads I've seen on TV specials about racist groups) who have made statements to that effect (I'm sure you can give me a link to a quote by someone like Trent Lott or Dick Armey, if there is one(*weary sigh*)).  Maybe if I ever listened to the talk radio you insist I listen to then I could come up with some of my own (*calculates high school as the last time I listened to ANYTHING on the radio, much less talk*).  And of course small groups of loud idiots claiming to represent entire races, genders, or sexual orientations should absolutely be allowed to bully artists, scholars, and journalists into correctness.  To not agree with this would be to harbor a "conspiracy theory" (*rolls eyes again*).  

As for celebrity idiocy - I reiterate: who cares what any of them say?  I just consider it a little extra clowning by my favorite jesters that I get on the news instead of having to buy a ticket.  It's free entertainment, people.  I mean where else are you going to see Whoopie Goldberg do comedy??  Certainly not in any of her movies.

James "Squishy" Carville.  Crossfire indeed.