Best Way To Deal With Iran & N. Korea?

[LilCerberus]

Bacause it's no joking matter...

Deleted. Mia culpa.

[Yaddo 42]

Life is too important a subject to ever talk seriously about. - Oscar Wilde

If you can't joke or laugh at a serious situation at some point, you'll drive yourself crazy stressing about it. I've done it myself in my personal life. Granted there are times when jokes are inappropriate for any serious situation, but we aren't the folks at the negotiating table.

I vote all options stink, but we have to do something. I agree getting China to lean on N. Korea, pointing out containing or stopping Kim is in their interest long term. Any actual conflict will affect them even they aren't actively involved: nukes, a ground war, refugees after a collapse, etc. They already know this, and tightly control that border. But who does more business with them, N. Korea or the US (to our disadvantage in many ways)?

As or Iran, stickier situation. Bomb the nuke program sites and you rally the discontented youth and common folk to the mullahs and their grubby little puppet. Invade and you get a ground war even messier than Iraq, even if we had the resources to do it right now. I'd advocate engaging with and backing the secular youth who will enter politics, sow the seeds of reform and hopefully spread throughout the system, take power from the mullahs, and change the country for the better. A very Cold War-style effort that will take time, one with no guarantees, look at what happened to the youth movement in China of the 80s, especially if Iran get the bomb in the meantime, but the least bad of lots of very bad options.

[BTM]

Actually, the poll is missing an answer

Assassinate Kim Jon Ill (or however you spell his name.)

Not saying that's the best solution, or that it'd be easy, but it's an option.

As for the other options...

"Let The U.N. Take Care Of It"

AHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHAH!!!  That's hiliarious!  I mean, after all the UN has a great track record.  Consider for example, how well they enforced all those laws they set up against Iraq.  Oh wait, they didn't!

What bugs me though is how many people blame Bush for the N Korea situation.  Maybe you could argue he's not helping things, but they fact is this: Kim is a LIAR, who's been violating agreements and contracts for DECADES now.  They even did a  little deal back in the Clinton era to give him instrucitons for a nuclear power plant in return he signed a treaty not to persue nuclear weapons.  And guess what?  He broke that treaty.  He's been doing this time and time again, so anyone who wants to lay the fault of this problem solely on the feet of Bush is seriously misguided.

So, I dunno.. maybe some covert action is needed, arming a couple of rebels within Korea (if there are any... dunno how the underground in that area.) 

Course, problem with that is in a few years you might be trading one maniac group for another, but sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils (like when the U.S. joined forced with Russia in WW2)

[Yaddo 42]

Due to the control Kim exerts over his nation, its meager resources, and its people, I doubt trying to foment revolution in N. Korea is a real option.

There are plenty of dissidents outside the country, but he imprisons or kills dissenters within the country quite often. The people are too busy just trying to survive each day due to ongoing famine (made intentionally worse by Kim) to try to rise up even if so many weren't brainwashed to love their tormentor.

Meanwhile Kim and his cronies horde the food for the military; and use its financial resources for lavish luxury items, parties, booze, drugs, imported hookers, horror movies and garish musicals, lavish parades, and public spectacles all for the glory of the bloated midget with the half-assed afro perched on his built-up shoes.

A smart, evil sneaky bastard without even a sense of style. Amin had those ludicrous cartoonish uniforms with the medals and ribbons and such, Mobutu had those leopard print hats, Marcos had Imelda and her shoe farms and skivvies (from what I've read), Qaddafi looks like an aging drag queen or a lost cast member from The Golden Girls, Saddam had those palaces filled with bad Boris Vallejo-style art and his buddies in matching mustaches on his grenade fishing trips, etc. Blood soaked monsters and killers all, yet part of the dictator persona makes so many of them indulge in weird crap like this.

[BTM]

Dammit to hell, I really need to REREAD my freaking posts before I hit the send button.

Got this problem where sometimes when I type, other words appear than what I'm actually meaning to say.  (Guessing it's probably some form of dyslexia/aphasia they haven't IDed yet, and will probably come out with effective treatments for it long after I'm dead...)

Need to hire  proofreader.. hehe!

[raj]

From some intelligence websites I've read, there have been some coup attempts against Lil Kim, plus there was that massive "accidental" explosion that happened at a train station -- regrettably a bit after Kim's RR car had passed by.  If he can't keep the army fed, it will turn on him.

[Yaddo 42]

But would a successful coup put in a leader or group of them wiling to change North Korea's ways, or just put in another tyrant wanting to "be" Kim rather than knuckle under to him? Even if a leader friendly to the South and the US were to take over, China would not like losing their leverage in the region. Maybe raise their sabre-rattling concerning Taiwan to a new level.

[Scott]

Iran may have downed one of our U.S. drones a couple days ago over Iran.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-01/17/content_5615540.htm

[the ghoul]

I think we should use a similar strategy to the one we used during the cold war.  If you make a nuke, test a nuke,  launch a nuke, or attack American soil,  you will face total annihilation.  End of story.  I would tell all of the countries where terrorists fluorish like Saudi Arabia that they need to clean their own houses ASAP because they will be held accountable for any terrorist attacks that can be traced to their countries.  Hopefully it wouldn't have to happen even once, but if it did, I don't think anyone would mess with us again for a very long time.

I would also bring our troops home from the ridiculous war in Iraq.

I voted for all options stink because there is no pretty way out of this situation.

[Scott]

China just knocked out old satillite with missle.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/18/070118175313.jezg0oda.html

[Scott]

Iranian President today assured "that the United States and the Zionist regime of Israel will soon come to the end of their lives," the Iranian president was quoted as saying..

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3356154,00.html

North Korea is going to help Iran with Nuclear Testing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/24/wiran24.xml

[Scott]

Iran is supposedly sending up satillite which could be a hidden way for them to test their long range missle systems.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/IRAN01257.xml

[ulthar]

I think we should use a similar strategy to the one we used during the cold war.  If you make a nuke, test a nuke,  launch a nuke, or attack American soil,  you will face total annihilation.  End of story.  I would tell all of the countries where terrorists fluorish like Saudi Arabia that they need to clean their own houses ASAP because they will be held accountable for any terrorist attacks that can be traced to their countries. 

Very good.  You get some "saw it coming" points for this.

I actually heard on the radio today a very interesting theory.  Now granted, this was just a small group's theory and MAY be full of bunk.  I'll pass it along as I heard it, and I have to admit it makes a bit of sense.

Have you wondered why, with all the postering going on with Iran, why oh why is the price of gasoline going DOWN?  I've been paying under $2.00 a gallon for about two weeks, and saw one station today that had $1.86 per gallon.  Apparently, there's already been a drop on gas price of roughly 20%.  That's significant.  But the speculation on the oil price should be driving the price UP, due to the instabilities of the region.

Well, apparently OPEC petitioned Saudia Arabia to hold a meeting to discuss stopping the drop in prices; the Saudi's refused.  That's odd since they stand to make higher profits if the price goes up, but lower if it continues to drop.  Further, the Saudi's have announced an INCREASE in production - an increase in production while US prices are DROPPING.  Can you say WTF?

Further, all of this came after Cheney went to Saudi and had a nice little chat with the King of Saud.  That's what I heard.

So, here's the theory as it was presented (assuming all these 'facts' are correct; I have not vetted them myself).  The US ultimately defeated the USSR in the cold war economically; we outspent them and we bankrupted them.  And, it seems that that is the strategy here as well.

Due to technological problems and poor refining capacity, Iran cannot profit on their oil if the world price is less than $60.00 per barrel.  Last year, Venezeula (and others?) were seeking contracts that would guarantee prices above $50.00 per barrel, iirc.  Anyway, if the world price continues to drop, Iran will LOSE ITS BUTT.  It could bankdrupt the country, much as was done in the USSR.  As it is now, Iran exports crude, but must inport gasoline - they are the second largest importer of refined gasoline (to us), but if the market drops on the crude (as it is right now), they will not be able to afford to buy the refined product.

So, it seems like the ghoul may be on to something.  Maybe, at least one national radio talker things, we are beating Iran in the same manner we won the Cold War - using our economic might.

It'll be fun to watch. 

[Yaddo 42]

Listened to Glenn Beck Friday, I guess?

[ulthar]

Listened to Glenn Beck Friday, I guess?

LOL; yep, for about 20 minutes, and that's part I caught.