Massacre in Blacksburg

JaseSF · April 22, 2007, 01:02:24 PM

Not being native to the United States, I have to plead ignorance when it comes to your laws. Our laws in Canada are not the same. Very few people where I live own firearms aside from those who use them for hunting purposes.

Jim H · April 22, 2007, 01:47:45 PM

Quote from: JaseSF on April 22, 2007, 01:02:24 PM
Not being native to the United States, I have to plead ignorance when it comes to your laws. Our laws in Canada are not the same. Very few people where I live own firearms aside from those who use them for hunting purposes.

About 1 in 4 households in Canada has guns, though I would hazard a guess and say handguns are far more rare, and they're probably much less common overall in larger cities (which is also true of the USA).

From what I can tell, Canada has forced flight laws, where you're required to attempt to flee rather than defend yourself if it is possible. I personally find such laws vaguely repulsive. I don't have a problem with people who would rather flee than fight if possible (that's what I would do in most situations), I just don't think the government should try to force people to make that sort of decision, especially not when someone may be trying to kill them.

Info on Canadian defense law.
http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Buckner/Chapter%2010.htm

That's how self defense still works in *some* US states I believe. I know Florida had a very similar provision until they amended it a few years ago. That is one thing that I feel is always important to note with this sort of thing - states in the USA vary more than many people realize in their laws.

US states run the gamut from forced flight to being able to shoot people who are on your property after dark or are stealing from you (Texas).

JaseSF · April 22, 2007, 02:25:39 PM

Being something of a pacifist, I have to admit to wanting no part of guns myself. Many people though do own guns and use them responsibly for hunting reasons which I have no problem with. I do agree that police and armed forces should be allowed to use deadly force against an armed assailant threatening the lives of others.

flackbait · April 22, 2007, 02:32:54 PM

I really wouldn't know how I'd handle myself against a guy with a gun.
But I'm certain if I could fight back I'd have a hard time running away, especially if I had a bigger/better gun.
It's natural human instinct to fight back if some one threatens you.

fortunato · April 22, 2007, 05:25:52 PM

Just as natural as running away or pleading for your life. I have to admit that if I was confronted with violence, I would not be the type to defend myself.

flackbait · April 22, 2007, 05:45:18 PM

True reaction does very from person to person.

Poogie · April 23, 2007, 11:13:19 AM

My opinion on this tragedy is, the guy wasn't right, if he didn't have a gun he would of used something else, like a bomb. He wanted to kill people and he would of done it one way or another. It's very sad but true.

fortunato · April 23, 2007, 11:55:27 AM

That's why all this speculation and debate over "how could we not see it coming" is getting so repetitive. Every time some jagoff with a gun shoots a hell of a lot of people, the media always uses it (and so does the federal government) as a platform to take more liberties away from regular plain old Americans in order to weed out these few sociopaths who will, as you say, find bombs, baseball bats, knives, or whatever other weapons they want to commit these crimes anyway.

LilCerberus · April 23, 2007, 12:25:39 PM

One thing I don't think has yet been addressed, is just how many people picked up on the warning signs, & thought this guy was just a joke, or that his behavior prior to this tragedy was little more than a source of humor.

ulthar · April 23, 2007, 01:04:04 PM

Quote from: LilCerberus on April 23, 2007, 12:25:39 PM
One thing I don't think has yet been addressed, is just how many people picked up on the warning signs, & thought this guy was just a joke, or that his behavior prior to this tragedy was little more than a source of humor.

I'm purposefully avoiding reading/watching the ~~circus~~ media coverage of this, but my wife has been keeping up a little bit. From her accounts, I've come to understand that he WAS briefly institutionalized and that the school DID try to do something - but were met with "not much we can do."

Really, this is very, very hard to predict, and you could NEVER be sure. Hindsight is 20-20 as they say. I wonder what we would do? Start locking people up who have sociopathic THOUGHTS?

Can we say 1984?

The bottom line is thoughts and 'feelings' are not crimes - actions are. Trying to get someone "like this" help before they do something horrible is a good idea, but the cold reality is you can truly never really know ahead of time.

Anyone care to start a pool to see how long it takes before the lawsuits start getting filed? I'm thinking someone will sue VT on the basis "They should have protected me/my son|daughter better." Or how long before the book deals start happenin? Maybe this guy had an ex-girlfriend who can cash-in on what she "knew" beforehand?

I remain ever disillusioned with American culture....

LilCerberus · April 23, 2007, 01:27:24 PM

Quote from: ulthar on April 23, 2007, 01:04:04 PM
Quote from: LilCerberus on April 23, 2007, 12:25:39 PM
One thing I don't think has yet been addressed, is just how many people picked up on the warning signs, & thought this guy was just a joke, or that his behavior prior to this tragedy was little more than a source of humor.

I'm purposefully avoiding reading/watching the ~~circus~~ media coverage of this, but my wife has been keeping up a little bit. From her accounts, I've come to understand that he WAS briefly institutionalized and that the school DID try to do something - but were met with "not much we can do."

I wasn't talking about establishments or institutions, I was talking about people.
And I wasn't talking about the obsequious token gesture made by the institutions, I'm talking about what people do.

fortunato · April 24, 2007, 12:26:40 AM

That's just it. Now to make everyone feel better, lawsuits are going to be filed to sue everyone that "should have been responsible." And CNN will be there to fill you in about it while your tax dollars go down the drain. It seems that there is no end to this line of tragedies that everyone wants to blame on everyone else, starting with the collapse of the World Trade Center and then continuing with the war in Iraq and the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe. I mean, isn't it about time we just said: "Look, we are Americans and we want to be able to control our own lives again." Instead, all we get is more government interference and a sense that one day we will be the controlled and not the controllers.