So I got around to seeing Spider Man and...

[Akira Tubo]

The movie started perfectly.  It continued to be perfect for much of its running time.  However, I have one complaint and it's a big one.

There was no Gwen Stacy.  Her death is such a major part of Spider Man's history and character that I can't believe they did without it.  It's every bit as crucial to who Spidey is as Uncle Ben's demise.  Without Gwen's death, Norman Osbourne's is meaningless, as well.

[jmc]

Yeah, it seemed like they switched Mary Jane for Gwen, maybe because most people know who Mary Jane is, while only the fans know about Gwen Stacy.  Also, it was probably a little too sad.  

Anyone else ever read the WHAT IF? series installment called "What If Gwen Stacy Had Lived?"   It ended up bad for Spidey-somehow it resulted in everyone finding out his identity and him being hunted by the police, unable to make his wedding date with Gwen.

[Offthewall]

Those Comics ruled. For some reason they all ended with everyone dying. I remember one of them.

What if Rouge stole Thors power?
Answer: She kills everyone and goes to prision (no lie)

[Law Dog]

The movie seems to be following more along with the newer Ultimate Spider-Man storyline than the older Amazing/Spectacular version. In that current series, neither Gwen nor MJ is dead and Peter got bitten by an Oscorp spider.

[J.R.]

I don't really care whether it's Gwen or MJ. I agree with jmc, more casual fans would know who MJ is. This is a 2 hour movie, and fitting in Gwen, her death, and all that it encompasses, only to introduce MJ in Spidey 2, would be pretty complicated. Actually, I have a somewhat similar query (not a complaint-just wondering), why wasn't Doc Ock the villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would know who Doc Ock is.

BTW, I too loved the What If... books. Here are some of my faves-

What If... Apocalypse killed the X-Men?
What If... Spider-Man joined Fantastic Four?
What if... The Punisher killed Spider-Man?

I also remember a DC version, can't remember the name, and one of the stories was what if Clark Kent were Batman? In it, Clark is adopted by the Wayne family, and they are killed, and he seeks vengeance in the guise of a bat, except he has Supe's powers. Pretty cool.

[chris]

I think Raimi made the right decision in keeping Gwen Stacy out.  To have Uncle Ben and Peter Parker's girlfriend die in the same film would be too much, plus for people who think the movie ending is a downer would be traumatized if it ended with death.  However, I thought a lot of information that spanned several comics was tightly packed in the film.  If Gwen was in it, Harry, J.J.J., M.J., Normon and even Peter Parker wouldn't get as much development.  I originally was suprised when I saw the trailer with G.G. dangling M.J. off the bridge, thinking blasphamy, but upon viewing the film, it would have hurt the whole film if Gwen was in it.

[Squishy]

I M mad cuz the clone saga was lef tout
htey cud hav called it spidemran: attack of the clonesaga
wher was electro ? his custume is super and sandman he is cool too
th nex muvie shud hav twevle villiains and sungs by th eartist formrelly knoun as price
and be nine dayz long
also it shud have secret wars coz secrete warz is abig important part of sipderman legacy
I hope iron man and thor is in th hulk movie
shehulk haz big boobs

(I'm not really like that, guys...I'm just makin' fun of the fanboys.)

[Cullen]

Hay!  LEaVe th Fan boyz lone.  We never dune anything tA YOU.  eXCEPT THAt 1 time, but thatz all.
____________________________________________________________________
I might have mentioned, once or twice, that I've been a fan of Spider-man for most of my life.  At one point I owned the "Green Goblin's Last Stand," which is one of the comics the movie is ever so loosely based one.  It was, and still is, one of the best Spider-man stories.

Beside the point, really.  What I can never quite understand is why Gwen Stacy keeps getting dropped.  (You know what I mean.)  Her death was a vital key to the origin of one of the creepiest Spider-man villains, the undead-ish Carrion.  That guy STILL haunts me to this day.

And his death was one of the DUMBEST IN COMICS HISTORY.  Killed by the Spider-Amoeba.  I kid you not.  Makes a man long for the Spider-mobile, it does.

Just a thought that sprung up and wouldn't go away.
____________________________________________________________________
I spell checked this post, including that top portion.  There was a slight pause, then a message popped up: "You f***ing kidding."  Now it refusing to spell check anything for me.

Is this normal?

[Nathan]

J.R. wrote:
>
>why wasn't Doc Ock the
> villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common
> criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true
> villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would
> know who Doc Ock is.

Because the Goblin's backstory is more related to Spidey's.  Everyone involved in the story is connected:  Peter, MJ, Harry, Norman.  Sure, they could have crafted and played up an angle for Peter to know Dr. Otto Octavius, but there's no way he could have organically been involved in the love triangle storyline as well.

Nathan

[Squishy]

That's why I'm worried about the sequel. One of the few connecting dramatic hooks left is Aunt May's "Spider-Man phobia," left untouched in the first movie. (Mary Jane figuring out who Spidey is--deliciously left open at the end of the movie--is another, but none of them interlace like the Parker-Watkins-Osbourne-Osbourne-Parker ring.) The Lizard ("Dr. Conners") is mentioned in a throwaway line in the movie, but he and Doc Ock have little personal connection to Peter Parker--and because they could come out looking just as silly as the Green Goblin might have (picture a fat guy with a bowl-chop on flexible stilts and someone in a slim Godzilla suit), one wrong move combined with the lack of dramatic connections could leave us with another Batman Returns. Sorry--hated that one. They all have moments or elements, but none of them are really good, even if some suck worse than others.

Doc Ock's gonna need a jetpack attachment or something. C'mon. A police chopper would have no trouble keeping up with him. Plus, doing the tentacles realistically would curtail their length considerably. Having Spidey fight The Lizard in big sewer junctions and warehouses and jumping around rooftops might work, but Doc will require the kind of overhaul that has the fanboys screaming foul all the way up to the premier (no offense Cullen).

[chris]

I think seeing Doc Ock walking on his tentacles would be great, and those wacky things extend so he can move purty fast.  However, I hope they don't go for Todd MacFarlane's "Torment" Lizard that is just vicious and opt for the speaking Lizard.  And the Lizard should have ORGANIC WEBSHOOTERS!  Wait, is that the Lizard I'm thinking of?

[Akira Tubo]

J.R. wrote:
>
>why wasn't Doc Ock the
> villain? In the original Spider-books, he only fought common
> criminals until issue #3, when Doc Ock became the first true
> villain he battled. Besides, as with MJ, more people would
> know who Doc Ock is.

They were probably saving up Doc Ock for the sequel, where they wouldn't have to worry about setting up the story for the entire franchise and they could *really* use him.

[Chadzilla]

Squishy wrote:
>
> shehulk haz big boobs
>
>

Chadzilla (in best mouth breather fashion)

And tehy GREEN tooo!  ;-)

[J.R.]

No, they'd do Doc Ock and Lizard with CGI. I can see the trailer now: Dock Ock tearing down a street his huge, labrynthian tentacles smashing against cars and buildings, LOTR Cave Troll-style. And Squishy brought up something interesting: One of the mainstays of Spidey comics was the battles in sewer alcoves,  warehouses, and such, and hopefully with Sam The Man being such a big Webhead buff, he'll include those in the next film.

[Cullen]

(no offense Cullen).