A movie that's bad because it overexaggerates

[WyreWizard]

Yes, I'd like to talk about a film I saw over 20 years ago.  This film was a first for the rating it recieved.  It was a military flick that launched Patrick Swayze into stardom.  Yes, I am talking about none other than Red Dawn.  What do I find so bad about this film?  Is it the violence?  Nope.  Is it the frequent death scenes?  Hardly.  What I find so bad about this film is that it greatly overexaggerates certain facts.  And here are the facts that is misconstrues.

  Extreme weaknesses in the US Military.  The last time any foreign military force penetrated deeply into US territory was back in the 1700s during the Revolutionary war.  Since then, we have developed one of the most powerful and advanced military forces in the world.  Yet in this film, they allow the combined Cuban and Soviet forces penetrate deeply into Texas and worst off, are unable to route them out.  Now I know what you're thinking.  "But Wyre, what about Pearl Harbor?"  Pearl Harbor isn't anywhere in the contiguous Mainland.  Pearl Harbor is on the Hawaiian islands which are over 2,000 miles from the US Mainland.  Pearl Harbor was nothing more than a US outpost.  I'm talking the US Mainland here.  "What about 9-11?"  That was a terrorist action, not a military action.  No country supported 9-11.  9-11 was the work of Al-Quaida, not a foreign military.  Any film which greatly over exaggerates the weaknesses in the US military by any foreign power on Earth is in my view a bad film.

The invader's target.  Texas of all places.  Now why would the combined Soviet and Cuban forces invade Texas?  Texas has a great number of military bases and a significant military presence.  I seriously doubted that the Soviet Union back then would have invested any resources into invading a hard target like Texas.  And Cuba's weak military force would have been all but wiped out by Texas's military presence.  Texas also  has very few nuclear missile launch sites so invading it would have done little to weaken the US's nuclear arsenal.  Now if you ask me any foreign military who would invade Texas would be suicidal.  Invading Texas served no purpose.

[Snivelly]

The film takes place in Colorado, not Texas.

And I'm not completely sure 'overexaggerates" is actually a word.

[Oldskool138]

  Extreme weaknesses in the US Military.  The last time any foreign military force penetrated deeply into US territory was back in the 1700s during the Revolutionary war. 

*cough* War of 1812, Mexican/American War, Spanish/American War *cough*

[WyreWizard]

The film takes place in Colorado, not Texas.

And I'm not completely sure 'overexaggerates" is actually a word.

sorry, I forgot to hyphenate it.

[Menard]

  Extreme weaknesses in the US Military.  The last time any foreign military force penetrated deeply into US territory was back in the 1700s during the Revolutionary war. 

*cough* War of 1812, Mexican/American War, Spanish/American War *cough*

Thank you. I was going to mention that myself, but someone got there ahead of me.

[Menard]

Do you actually have a point, Wee Willy?

You post about what you find to be wrong with a film, yet everyone of the facts you use to dismiss the film are simply wrong.

Is this more of a case of the idiot calling the movie stupid?


Let's take a look at your mistaken hypothesis of an invasion in Texas:


1) If it is the clusterf**k of military strength you claim it to be (I actually don't know), then why would it not be a good idea to attack there?

Attacks to the weaker periphery of any force results in fewer gains for the losses incurred and drawn out stalemates.

General Sherman did not defeat the Confederate forces by staying to the bounderies. He cut a swath of terror right into the heart of the South; effectively demoralizing and disrupting his enemy.

An attack to the heart of a military force will effectively disrupt that force. Attacks to the weaker forces will result in those forces becoming stronger as the element of surprise is certainly gone.


2) Nuclear weapons arsenal?

Nobody the government would consider important lives in those areas.

If you are an enemy force, then what's the point of the nuclear strikes as the enemy is in the backyard and the targets would obviously have been moved under such an organized attack. What would have been left would be civilian targets and the rest of the world due to fallout. A nuclear response to such an invasion would have been a unlikely response, so the nuclear arsenals are not primary targets.


Next time that you decide to pop in and annoy us Wee Willy (as we are minding our own business and not stalking a little troll like you), take a moment to pull your head out of your ass so the next time you speak, pointless sh*t won't be flying out your mouth.

[ghouck]

Extreme weaknesses in the US Military.

Would've been a very short movie if the US stopped the invaders cold in their tracks. .

Any film which greatly over exaggerates the weaknesses in the US military by any foreign power on Earth is in my view a bad film.

Then you are admiting to a bias that prevents you from enjoying a movie, AND, expect people to take your (lopsided) review of it seriously.

The invader's target.  Texas of all places.  Now why would the combined Soviet and Cuban forces invade Texas?

1) You have to start somewhere.
2) Texas's military presence is fairly irrelevant, since in that situation, the military would be largely distracted with taking care of their own families (yes, arguable point, but that's the way I see it).
3) The idea of a surprize invasion is to capture military assets to use as your own. Can't do that starting your invasion out in BFE.
4) Texas has oil, you know, the stuff that, when you run out of it, it tends to halt your invasion, as it has in more than one major invasion throughout history.
5) Would be useful as a route for additional forign forces in the case the US gains air superiority, units could travel across the border from Mexico.
6) Lots of livestock, lakes, farms and hunting grounds can be used to feed troops.
7) A big part of their invasion, IIRC, was to split the country up the middle. If that is correct, then Texas is a very GOOD place to start an invasion.

Texas also  has very few nuclear missile launch sites so invading it would have done little to weaken the US's nuclear arsenal.

Just how does one use a nuclear arsenal to stop an invading force that has thouroughly invaded your mainland? The "shoot yourself in th foot" method?

A big part of what the movie was about was that nuclear weapons are irrelevant: To use them ensures one's own demise, therefore that are not going to be used. Add that to the overall path of the invasion (figuratively, not literally), and you can't really use nukes without taking out some of your own people/forces.

[RapscallionJones]

It's been a while since I've seen it, but doesn't Powers Boothe's character explain that there was a limited nuclear exchange and then explain why it wasn't a total barrage?

I'm going with the flow on this one:  Red Dawn is top notch Reagan era war movie material.  It was intended to thrill audiences in the middle of a heavy anti-Soviet period in American history.  It has a ridiculous pro-NRA message and everything about it is pure awesome.  If you want to rag on it because it under estimates the American war machine of the time, you might as well point out how completely outrageous it is that a band of teenagers could stage complicated guerilla attacks on a highly organized, well trained, well armed and not to mention huge army.

[Andrew]

Welcome aboard RapscallionJones!

WyreWizard is our resident troll.  He likes to post topics that will get a lot of responses and seems to prefer to see how people will oppose his opinions.  I'm not certain that this is one of his better efforts, however.  He has had a few classics in the past.

[RapscallionJones]

Welcome aboard RapscallionJones!

WyreWizard is our resident troll.  He likes to post topics that will get a lot of responses and seems to prefer to see how people will oppose his opinions.  I'm not certain that this is one of his better efforts, however.  He has had a few classics in the past.

Thanks.

Every forum has one.  So logic and reason have no place in this thread, I take it?

[WyreWizard]

2) Nuclear weapons arsenal?

Nobody the government would consider important lives in those areas.

If you are an enemy force, then what's the point of the nuclear strikes as the enemy is in the backyard and the targets would obviously have been moved under such an organized attack. What would have been left would be civilian targets and the rest of the world due to fallout. A nuclear response to such an invasion would have been a unlikely response, so the nuclear arsenals are not primary targets.


Next time that you decide to pop in and annoy us Wee Willy (as we are minding our own business and not stalking a little troll like you), take a moment to pull your head out of your ass so the next time you speak, pointless sh*t won't be flying out your mouth.

It seems you totally miss the point.  I don't mean using a nuclear arsenal against an enemy in your homegrounds, I meant for the enemy to try and WEAKEN the US nuclear power.  You see, Red Dawn never made it clear why the combined Soviet and Cuban forces invaded the US in the first place so we are only left with speculation.  And since Snivelly pointed out my error, I'll say this.  Colorado isn't a very sensible target either.  Because Colorado is smack dab in the middle of the US inside of heavily guarded borders.  If this move had any basis in reality, anti aircraft missiles would definitely shot down those troop planes before they reached their target.  Any foreign power that dares send a large number of planes into US borders is definitely committing and act of war and the US would respond appropriately.

Now if Red Dawn were reality, it would have been the US which fell into oblivion, not the Soviet Union.

[WyreWizard]

Welcome aboard RapscallionJones!

WyreWizard is our resident troll.  He likes to post topics that will get a lot of responses and seems to prefer to see how people will oppose his opinions.  I'm not certain that this is one of his better efforts, however.  He has had a few classics in the past.

:Back up a tanker truck to an olympic-size swimming pool and pours its cargo in, thousands of gallons of beer!  Turns to Andrew and says "Dive in!"

[ulthar]

heavily guarded borders.

Oh, my side hurts.  That's REALLY funny.

  If this move had any basis in reality

Once again, your downfall - fantasy vs reality.  Hard to tell sometimes, I know.

[GoHawks]

I don't mean to feed the troll, and I really don't mean to come off sounding like a troll myself, but I personally hated Red Dawn.

I honestly don't remember much about it, having only seen it in its entirety once in the theater when it first came out.  My entire recollection of the plot is that it involves a Cuban/Soviet invasion/occupation that is opposed by a band of teenagers including Patrick Swayze.  I don't really know why I don't like it, but I do know that I walked out of that movie theater feeling cheated and swearing that I would never voluntarily watch that movie again. 

At that time I did not know who Swayze was, but as time has gone by it turns out that he hasn't made any movies that I did like (of those I've seen: "The Outsiders", "Red Dawn", "Dirty Dancing", "Road House", "Next of Kin", part of "Ghost", "Point Break").  ("Road House (1989)" is watchable, but I wouldn't say I like it.) 

Now that that's off my chest, I must say that WyreWizard does not seem to be a very effective troll.  But I'm probably desensitized from hanging out on talk.origins. 

[RCMerchant]

  WW- Why?...I know,YOU know,WE ALL know, that you do this because it gives you some kinda hard on. But what exactly is the nature of your perversion? This is not an insult...and I'm not trying to be a wise ass...I really am wondering about your motives. I post here because it's fun. I enjoy exchanging views and just general gabbing. You seem to enjoy abuse.Am I wrong?